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 j31c3n wrote:
>quotes 40kwikia like it's reliable

Lol and told you where to find it in GW printed fluff. Again, since you may have missed it, you can find the information in the 5th Ed. SM Codex.

A Chapter Master can only be compelled by the Emperor, High Lords, or an assembly of his peers.

I am going to get flamed but, I think the Dark Angels are a dirtbaggy chapter.

That's a legitimate suggestion. They can be pretty D-Baggy.

I seriously want to like them. I think they are full of crap (excuse the french,) and just like the Marines Malevolent, their fluff... idk. It drives me away? I actually can compare more to the MM fluff then theirs.

Then again...

I /do/ sorta like the Dark Angels from another era (RT). Yeah. To reiterate, the only DA concept I have ever liked or even stopped to view was when they were originally clad in black.

They haven't had enough quality 40k fluff written, but what I can take away from the interactions in the HH seems to paint them in a similar(if more highly regarded) light than their 40k counterparts.

They just seem largely distrustful and untrusted. They seem to have a valid SM moral compass in regards to the Imperium, yet have a cold detachment from individuals in that Imperium.

Honestly, they're a lot like their Primarch.

 dusara217 wrote:

The Space Wolves Fortress-Monastery is the second-best fortress in the galaxy. Even Rogal Dorn saw it and was all like "good 'nuff", and apparently he never complemented any fortresses that he didn't build, so that was high praise coming from him. The void shields alone are so advanced that the technology to build them isn't even around anymore.

I'm sorry but I disagree with your "second-best fortress is the galaxy" statement. I do believe it's safe to say Terra's Imperial palace is the best fortress in the galaxy but there are many contenders for second place. Whilst it may have some of the most advanced Void Shields and Laser batteries around, I don't believe it's the second most defensible fortress out there. Lexicanum states that is "perhaps the greatest fortress" since Terra but I believe there are better candidates for second place.

For a start, the Iron warriors build countless fortresses across the galaxy and they're renowned for their skill in these matters - I'd say their Fortress World of Medrengard almost rivals Terra itself and so therefore in my humble opinion, it would take second place. If you're looking at single fortresses though and disqualify entire fortress worlds as options, then I'd suggest other potential contenders for second place such as the Deathwatch Fortress of Erioch and the Grey Knight Fortress Monastery, the Citadel of Titan. The Phalanx and Rock could also have shots at second place, hell, the Rock survived a bombardment which destroyed Caliban around it. Loathe as I am to say it, even the Ultramarine Fortress of Hera is a contender, it was built at the height of the Crusade (and therefore most likely has some of the best tech too) and is made up of multiple domes which are each citadels in their own right.

These are just some options off of the top of my head and I'd pick all of them over the Fang.

Honestly, it surprised me how much damage the Thousand Sons did to the Fang considering how epic it was purported to be.

If a bunch of "sissy wizards" can put serious bruising on your house while your Lion bro's castle gets blasted harder than Alderaan and shrugs it off like it's no big deal, there's a problem.

Codex: Witch-Hunters pg. 5 wrote:
In addition to monitoring the Ecclesiarchy - ensuring that Wars of Faith do not exceed their mandate or that its many Cardinals do not amass more power than is deemed appropriate - the Ordo Hereticus keeps a close eye on many other Imperial organisations: the Adeptus Arbites, the Space Marines and also fellow members of the Inquisition. They monitor doctrinal and physical purity, and no one is beyond their jurisdiction.

Codex: Witch-Hunters pg. 11 wrote:
... Thus, the Sisters find themselves in the service of the Inquisition, performing purity sweeps through Imperial organisations, persecuting apostate clerics, challenging renegade Space Marine Chapters, guarding the most dangerous of the Ordo's prisoners and acting as wardens on the infamous Black Ships.

Codex: Witch-Hunters pg. 42 wrote:
Many Space Marine Chapters are notoriously independent, and often follow their own agendas with little or no recourse to Imperial policy. One such Chapter has refused to give aid when requested, resulting in the loss of a strategically vital world, and the Ordo Hereticus resolves to bring the Chapter Master to justice.

Emphasis mine.

Sorry, what were you addressing?

 Shidank wrote:
Sorry, what were you addressing?

1) The claim that the Sisters are not used to bring Space Marines to heel.

2) The claim that Inquisitors have no authority over Space Marines.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
Sorry, what were you addressing?

1) The claim that the Sisters are not used to bring Space Marines to heel.

2) The claim that Inquisitors have no authority over Space Marines.

Ah, gotcha. Inquisitors don't have direct authority, though. While I don't have access to Codex materials at present, you're welcome to look for more than Sisters of Battle references to attacking renegade chapters(as any militant body in the Imperium would).

Inquisitors can request and, for the most part, chapters acquiesce. If they don't and a significant loss is incurred, the Inquisitor has the power to review and declare them traitors for other chapters or militant forces in the Imperium to punish.


The point of Inquisitors not being able to order around chapters is actually pretty essential to the working of the Imperium. You cannot believe Inquisitors have power over Chapters if they don't actively ferry them around as a private army. It makes no sense politically for this to be the case. Luckily, we've had a decent enough supply of information in fluff to realize there is a tenuous balance where Inquisitors ask and are generally answered but where they cannot outright demand.

Yes, Inquisitors have direct authority.

Inquisitors can request and, for the most part, chapters acquiesce. If they don't and a significant loss is incurred, the Inquisitor has the power to review and declare them traitors for other chapters or militant forces in the Imperium to punish.

That would be an example of said direct authority. An Inquisitor is (usually) part politician, and knows it's a lot easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar... but is fully within his/her remit to tell a Space Marine Chapter "go do this right now". The Inquisitor doesn't need to add the "or else" bit, anyone with half a functioning braincell in the Imperium knows that such is implied when dealing with an Inquisitor.

 Psienesis wrote:
Yes, Inquisitors have direct authority.

Inquisitors can request and, for the most part, chapters acquiesce. If they don't and a significant loss is incurred, the Inquisitor has the power to review and declare them traitors for other chapters or militant forces in the Imperium to punish.

That would be an example of said direct authority. An Inquisitor is (usually) part politician, and knows it's a lot easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar... but is fully within his/her remit to tell a Space Marine Chapter "go do this right now". The Inquisitor doesn't need to add the "or else" bit, anyone with half a functioning braincell in the Imperium knows that such is implied when dealing with an Inquisitor.

Since you've moved from 'Direct Superior' to 'Political Figurehead' regarding Inquisitors, I can agree that you can treat them as superiors. I would just prefer you acknowledge that they are, legally, unable to order a Space Marine chapter.

It's not a difficult position to comprehend that Inquisitors occupy and while no one here has argued that they aren't the most politically powerful officers in the Imperium, we've also acknowledged that the breaking of legions in the second founding would be directly contradicted by letting these agents have control of the most powerful military force in the galaxy.

So, if you would be so kind and for clarity of others who catch up on the thread, please consider this and either refute with explicit evidence which is practical in-universe within the long history of 40k or accept the position of Space Marine Chapter Master as an entity enthralled only to the Emperor and his representatives in the flesh, the High Lords of Terra.

 Stormwall wrote:
I seriously want to like them. I think they are full of crap (excuse the french,) and just like the Marines Malevolent, their fluff... idk. It drives me away? I actually can compare more to the MM fluff then theirs.

Then again...

I /do/ sorta like the Dark Angels from another era (RT). Yeah. To reiterate, the only DA concept I have ever liked or even stopped to view was when they were originally clad in black.

Eh, I can see it. I love the DA fluff and lore, but the one story that kinda bugged me is one of the codex stories, they were helping the IG who were fighting off a giant wave of Orkz IIRC. All of a sudden, they caught word of a possible Fallen lead, so they teleported and let the IG get wiped out. That always bugged me. I get the supreme mission thing, but they're still the good guys in my eyes, so abandoning the wimpy guard bothered me.

Any chaos chapter!

 Shidank wrote:

 j31c3n wrote:
>quotes 40kwikia like it's reliable

Lol and told you where to find it in GW printed fluff. Again, since you may have missed it, you can find the information in the 5th Ed. SM Codex.

A Chapter Master can only be compelled by the Emperor, High Lords, or an assembly of his peers.

Actually the DIRECT QUOTE is.. "A chapter Master is a peer of the Imperium, with authority to act as he wishes according to his own judgement, and answerable only to others of his rank"

So I suppose the question is do they mean chapter masters are answerable, on paper, only to other chapter masters, or are they answerable to anyone of equivilant peerage? (whatever that means)

 Shidank wrote:
Honestly, it surprised me how much damage the Thousand Sons did to the Fang considering how epic it was purported to be.

If a bunch of "sissy wizards" can put serious bruising on your house while your Lion bro's castle gets blasted harder than Alderaan and shrugs it off like it's no big deal, there's a problem.

I am more concerned with the obscene plot armour Bjorn displayed in his fight with Magnus.

Magnus should have been able to mentally snap him in half the moment he appeared.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:

Codex: Witch-Hunters pg. 5 wrote:
In addition to monitoring the Ecclesiarchy - ensuring that Wars of Faith do not exceed their mandate or that its many Cardinals do not amass more power than is deemed appropriate - the Ordo Hereticus keeps a close eye on many other Imperial organisations: the Adeptus Arbites, the Space Marines and also fellow members of the Inquisition. They monitor doctrinal and physical purity, and no one is beyond their jurisdiction.

But this is blatantly false.

I am not buying for a second that the Hereticus has the right to go boss around the Adeptus Custodes. They answer to no one except their own Custodes commanders and the Emperor himself.

If the Custodes and some Hereticus agents began accusing each other of heresy, there isn't a shadow of a doubt as to who would end up face down in the mud.

Red Scorpions are my vote. Defends of authority first and foremost is a pretty Dbag mentality.

Grey Knights are the SCUM of Space Marine chapters. Murder entire planetary populations because of a hint of daemons nearby. Slaughter Sisters for their blood in a huge BS moment. Draigo. Ignore all other Imperial authority but about half of the Inquisition. Murder Space Marines who even see a daemon, it's a wonder the Space Wolves haven't wiped them out.

BS about them being incorruptible, when it's clear they are.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Grey Knights are the SCUM of Space Marine chapters. Murder entire planetary populations because of a hint of daemons nearby. Slaughter Sisters for their blood in a huge BS moment. Draigo. Ignore all other Imperial authority but about half of the Inquisition. Murder Space Marines who even see a daemon, it's a wonder the Space Wolves haven't wiped them out.

BS about them being incorruptible, when it's clear they are.

Do you know anything about Chaos? The needs of the many outweigh the rights of the few. If they let daemonic taint fester, it will eventually a full-blown daemonic invasion that could potentially consume entire sectors of space, resulting in untold billions dying and threatening the security of the Imperium. Hell they Grey Knights are part of the reason why the Imperium even still exists, and hasn't fallen to daemonic invasion erupting from deep inside its own space. Without the Grey Knights, there is no Imperium at all.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
Sorry, what were you addressing?

1) The claim that the Sisters are not used to bring Space Marines to heel.

2) The claim that Inquisitors have no authority over Space Marines.

Except your first and last quote reference the Ordo Hereticus, not the Sisters. At no point did you have to own even a single Sisters of Battle figure to play with Codex Witch Hunters or the Ordo Hereticus.

And the second quote I already addressed. You claimed they were the "go to", which is not substantiated by anything you quoted. In fact, I quoted it in my post. Just because they can doesn't mean they are the first or even second choice. It took 9 Orders to kill a couple hundred Red Corsairs according to the latest Sisters codex. Not very cost effective when a few hundred Grey Knights or Space Marines can do the same thing, only better.


The idea of the Sisters being the first choice for fighting renegade Space Marines has no substantiation in the fluff. The idea that the Sisters sometimes challenge Space Marines, is substantiated in the fluff. Of course, if there are some renegade Space Marines floating around ruining your part of space and you have a bunch of Sisters of Battle not doing anything, then you toss them at the Space Marines and hope you can salvage enough of the wrecked gear to equip their replacements. But if you can get some good guy Space Marines or Grey Knights on the case, all the better. After all, Space Marines come as part of a fully functional, self-contained, self-supporting combat unit, where as the Sisters of Battle show up with some short ranged weaponry and a lot of attitude.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Grey Knights are the SCUM of Space Marine chapters. Murder entire planetary populations because of a hint of daemons nearby. Slaughter Sisters for their blood in a huge BS moment. Draigo. Ignore all other Imperial authority but about half of the Inquisition. Murder Space Marines who even see a daemon, it's a wonder the Space Wolves haven't wiped them out.

BS about them being incorruptible, when it's clear they are.

This is only true cos of Wardian BS. All that new fluff should be taken outside and shot. The Old fluff is quite awesome tbh.

Computron wrote:
So when are the Ultramarines going to turn renegade?

How dare you insult your spiritual liege!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Otto Weston wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Grey Knights are the SCUM of Space Marine chapters. Murder entire planetary populations because of a hint of daemons nearby. Slaughter Sisters for their blood in a huge BS moment. Draigo. Ignore all other Imperial authority but about half of the Inquisition. Murder Space Marines who even see a daemon, it's a wonder the Space Wolves haven't wiped them out.

BS about them being incorruptible, when it's clear they are.

This is only true cos of Wardian BS. All that new fluff should be taken outside and shot. The Old fluff is quite awesome tbh.

Couldn't agree more. As the saying goes "Draigo: Because Matt Ward Couldn't Resurrect Guilliman". A good way to grimdark the Grey Knights is that they are actually just mindless, brainwashed slaves to the Inquisition. The whole thing about the Wardian Grey Knights is that it takes away from the whole "Space Marines Are Humanity's Last Hope" thing.

The GK have always been plenty GrimDark. Jeebus, read Codex: Daemonhunters.

@Veteran Sergeant

Well technically regular Space Marines don't fight rebelious Chapter very often for fear of corruption like in the Badab War. It has been stated multiple time that the most traumtic thing a Space Marine can do is fight a former bretheren. Many choose to honor old friendship than their vows to protect The Imperium. Especially if the rebelious Chapter is transgressing the Codex or an inquisitorial order. Of course Grey Knights, Minautors or Space Sharks are your best options, but if you need to tackle a full Chapter. They are going to need some help.

Sisters have the big advantages of having basically the same gear (with some fancy options like mag boot missing on their armour) and similar training (if not better I believe). Put five to six thousand of them against a full Chapter and the Imperium is probably going to triumph unless their fortress or ships prove to to much.

Or just send a gak ton of guards with full regiment of heavy tanks. That Should make things easy.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Shidank wrote:

 j31c3n wrote:
>quotes 40kwikia like it's reliable

Lol and told you where to find it in GW printed fluff. Again, since you may have missed it, you can find the information in the 5th Ed. SM Codex.

A Chapter Master can only be compelled by the Emperor, High Lords, or an assembly of his peers.

Actually the DIRECT QUOTE is.. "A chapter Master is a peer of the Imperium, with authority to act as he wishes according to his own judgement, and answerable only to others of his rank"

So I suppose the question is do they mean chapter masters are answerable, on paper, only to other chapter masters, or are they answerable to anyone of equivilant peerage? (whatever that means)

Thank you. FInally, someone reinforces my point. The peer of a chapter master is considered to be Inquisitor, Rogue Trader, or other Chapter Master.

 Otto Weston wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

The Space Wolves Fortress-Monastery is the second-best fortress in the galaxy. Even Rogal Dorn saw it and was all like "good 'nuff", and apparently he never complemented any fortresses that he didn't build, so that was high praise coming from him. The void shields alone are so advanced that the technology to build them isn't even around anymore.

I'm sorry but I disagree with your "second-best fortress is the galaxy" statement. I do believe it's safe to say Terra's Imperial palace is the best fortress in the galaxy but there are many contenders for second place. Whilst it may have some of the most advanced Void Shields and Laser batteries around, I don't believe it's the second most defensible fortress out there. Lexicanum states that is "perhaps the greatest fortress" since Terra but I believe there are better candidates for second place.

For a start, the Iron warriors build countless fortresses across the galaxy and they're renowned for their skill in these matters - I'd say their Fortress World of Medrengard almost rivals Terra itself and so therefore in my humble opinion, it would take second place. If you're looking at single fortresses though and disqualify entire fortress worlds as options, then I'd suggest other potential contenders for second place such as the Deathwatch Fortress of Erioch and the Grey Knight Fortress Monastery, the Citadel of Titan. The Phalanx and Rock could also have shots at second place, hell, the Rock survived a bombardment which destroyed Caliban around it. Loathe as I am to say it, even the Ultramarine Fortress of Hera is a contender, it was built at the height of the Crusade (and therefore most likely has some of the best tech too) and is made up of multiple domes which are each citadels in their own right.

These are just some options off of the top of my head and I'd pick all of them over the Fang.

Highest praise I've found for the Fortress of Hera:

The Ultramarines' citadel is considered a wonder of engineering constructed by the hand of the Chapter's own Primarch Roboute Guilliman during the bygone era of the Great Crusade.

I've never seen nor heard of a claim that the Fortress of Hera was anywhere close to the second best fortress in the galaxy.

Highest praise I've found for the Citadel of Titan:

It is a forbidding sight that welcomes no visitors and brooks no trespass.

I've never read nor heard of praise for the Citadel of Titan, and this was the closest to it that I could find.

Highest praise I've found for Watch Fortress Erioch:

A brutal mass of armoured basilica, domes, and spires, the fortress bristles with enough armament to rival a sizable battlegroup of Imperial warships,

Nowhere has it been claimed that it was the greatest fortress in the galaxy outside of Terra.

The Phalanx and the Rock are space Stations, not fortresses. While Aldurkh was once a mighty fortress, having powerful void shields does not make it the best fortress in the galaxy. Fortress worlds do not count either, as fortress worlds are fortresses of a whole other class.

Your opinion regarding the Fang does not matter when faced with no evidence to support. The Fang is widely considered to be the best fortress outside of the Imperial Palace, and even Rogal Dorn, the harshest fortress builder imaginable, gave it his approval and praise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shidank wrote:
Honestly, it surprised me how much damage the Thousand Sons did to the Fang considering how epic it was purported to be.

If a bunch of "sissy wizards" can put serious bruising on your house while your Lion bro's castle gets blasted harder than Alderaan and shrugs it off like it's no big deal, there's a problem.

I hope you realize that the Fang only had a single Great Company (~125 Marines) and some Dreadnoughts to defend it. Against like 30x their number in Thousand Sons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shidank wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Shidank wrote:

 j31c3n wrote:
>quotes 40kwikia like it's reliable

Lol and told you where to find it in GW printed fluff. Again, since you may have missed it, you can find the information in the 5th Ed. SM Codex.

A Chapter Master can only be compelled by the Emperor, High Lords, or an assembly of his peers.

Actually the DIRECT QUOTE is.. "A chapter Master is a peer of the Imperium, with authority to act as he wishes according to his own judgement, and answerable only to others of his rank"

So I suppose the question is do they mean chapter masters are answerable, on paper, only to other chapter masters, or are they answerable to anyone of equivilant peerage? (whatever that means)

Thank you. FInally, someone reinforces my point. The peer of a chapter master is considered to be Inquisitor, Rogue Trader, or other Chapter Master.

Wow, a Rogue Trader is a Chapter Master's peer? I think that Space Marines just got knocked down a peg in my mind...

 dusara217 wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

The Space Wolves Fortress-Monastery is the second-best fortress in the galaxy. Even Rogal Dorn saw it and was all like "good 'nuff", and apparently he never complemented any fortresses that he didn't build, so that was high praise coming from him. The void shields alone are so advanced that the technology to build them isn't even around anymore.

I'm sorry but I disagree with your "second-best fortress is the galaxy" statement. I do believe it's safe to say Terra's Imperial palace is the best fortress in the galaxy but there are many contenders for second place. Whilst it may have some of the most advanced Void Shields and Laser batteries around, I don't believe it's the second most defensible fortress out there. Lexicanum states that is "perhaps the greatest fortress" since Terra but I believe there are better candidates for second place.

For a start, the Iron warriors build countless fortresses across the galaxy and they're renowned for their skill in these matters - I'd say their Fortress World of Medrengard almost rivals Terra itself and so therefore in my humble opinion, it would take second place. If you're looking at single fortresses though and disqualify entire fortress worlds as options, then I'd suggest other potential contenders for second place such as the Deathwatch Fortress of Erioch and the Grey Knight Fortress Monastery, the Citadel of Titan. The Phalanx and Rock could also have shots at second place, hell, the Rock survived a bombardment which destroyed Caliban around it. Loathe as I am to say it, even the Ultramarine Fortress of Hera is a contender, it was built at the height of the Crusade (and therefore most likely has some of the best tech too) and is made up of multiple domes which are each citadels in their own right.

These are just some options off of the top of my head and I'd pick all of them over the Fang.

Highest praise I've found for the Fortress of Hera:

The Ultramarines' citadel is considered a wonder of engineering constructed by the hand of the Chapter's own Primarch Roboute Guilliman during the bygone era of the Great Crusade.

I've never seen nor heard of a claim that the Fortress of Hera was anywhere close to the second best fortress in the galaxy. (Unless we have accounts of fortresses under siege, we have to judge them by Tech and size. The Fortress of Hera was built around the same time as the Fang and so should have the same 'advanced' technology. The difference is that it was built by the Ultramarines who had a lot more resources to dedicate to construction at the time and so the Fortress of Hera was made up of multiple citadels (at least two) whereas the Fang is only slightly larger than a standard Citadel.)

Highest praise I've found for the Citadel of Titan:

It is a forbidding sight that welcomes no visitors and brooks no trespass.

I've never read nor heard of praise for the Citadel of Titan, and this was the closest to it that I could find. (I have no canon to support my claim on this but it stands to reason that when Malcador had it constructed he would have asked for Dorn's council in its design, if not getting Dorn to design it from the ground up. Considering they were both in Sol at the time looking towards Terra's defences, I believe it's highly likely that Dorn designed the Citadel of Titan.)

Highest praise I've found for Watch Fortress Erioch:

A brutal mass of armoured basilica, domes, and spires, the fortress bristles with enough armament to rival a sizable battlegroup of Imperial warships,

Nowhere has it been claimed that it was the greatest fortress in the galaxy outside of Terra. (Since you're dismissing space-stations, then this would also be discounted.)

The Phalanx and the Rock are space Stations, not fortresses. (The Rock was a Fortress first and only became mobile later - as a Fortress it survived the destruction of an entire planet after bombardment and a warp storm that tore the planet to bits around it. That is significant.) While Aldurkh was once a mighty fortress, having powerful void shields does not make it the best fortress in the galaxy. Fortress worlds do not count either, as fortress worlds are fortresses of a whole other class.

Your opinion regarding the Fang does not matter when faced with no evidence to support. The Fang is widely considered to be the best fortress outside of the Imperial Palace, and even Rogal Dorn, the harshest fortress builder imaginable, gave it his approval and praise.(The only praise I've seen is Lexicanum's "perhaps the greatest fortress" and that's not exactly roaring approval. Also, I've been looking here - http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Quotes_Space_Marines and yet I can't find the quote supposedly from Dorn giving the Fang his approval)

My responses above in red.

Whilst I agree Rogal Dorn is a good judge of Fortresses, I can't seem to find the quote which says he approved of the Fang. Also, he's not exactly an unbiased Judge - even during the Crusade he didn't exactly see eye to eye with Perturabo and the Iron Warriors and he would not have praised them... especially after the heresy. The Iron Warrior Fortresses (past and present) may be contenders and yet wouldn't even be acknowledged by Dorn.

The Fang nearly fell to 2 million humans and 700 odd astartes. That's pathetic compared to the numbers that are usually thrown around in the 40k Universe. A small Ork Waagh could easily drop 100x those numbers and the Fang wouldn't have stood a chance. The defenders of a fortress are a key part of the fortress, you can't defend the Fang by saying they only had a single company there; a Fortress's usual garrison is part of the criteria (For example, what good are battlements if they're unmanned? Astartes would make better use of defensive emplacements than grots. Etc.).

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
Sorry, what were you addressing?

1) The claim that the Sisters are not used to bring Space Marines to heel.

2) The claim that Inquisitors have no authority over Space Marines.

Except your first and last quote reference the Ordo Hereticus, not the Sisters. At no point did you have to own even a single Sisters of Battle figure to play with Codex Witch Hunters or the Ordo Hereticus.

And the second quote I already addressed. You claimed they were the "go to", which is not substantiated by anything you quoted. In fact, I quoted it in my post. Just because they can doesn't mean they are the first or even second choice. It took 9 Orders to kill a couple hundred Red Corsairs according to the latest Sisters codex. Not very cost effective when a few hundred Grey Knights or Space Marines can do the same thing, only better.


The idea of the Sisters being the first choice for fighting renegade Space Marines has no substantiation in the fluff. The idea that the Sisters sometimes challenge Space Marines, is substantiated in the fluff. Of course, if there are some renegade Space Marines floating around ruining your part of space and you have a bunch of Sisters of Battle not doing anything, then you toss them at the Space Marines and hope you can salvage enough of the wrecked gear to equip their replacements. But if you can get some good guy Space Marines or Grey Knights on the case, all the better. After all, Space Marines come as part of a fully functional, self-contained, self-supporting combat unit, where as the Sisters of Battle show up with some short ranged weaponry and a lot of attitude.

At least this has been put to rest. I remember the first Sisters battle against Space Marines I ever read and thinking, "How are these women useful to anyone?"

It's all at the discretion of the writer, I suppose.

 dusara217 wrote:
Wow, a Rogue Trader is a Chapter Master's peer? I think that Space Marines just got knocked down a peg in my mind...

Nothing suggests that this is the case.