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This... This I find utterly repulsive. In my standard KDK army I utilize 4 tanks per game. To think that somewhere an imperial guard player has less tanks than me is saddening. He may be a good friend, but tell him to man up and that the world isn't all about him and your enjoyment matters too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/08 06:55:41
Okay, so this is how it went.
I rolled up and managed to persuade him to drop his homebrew assault squad of S and T 6 multi attack, rage, shred, soulblaze (I think), etc, etc squad on the premise that if they where on the table my Super Heavy would also be.
In total in a 1.5K game he had:
Librarian conclave - 5 level 2's in power armour.
three Vindicators in a squadron
2 Rhino's and a Razorback.
Some homebrew LotD captain with 4 wounds and masses of abilities incluing the ability to bring anyone he killed back as a LotD trooper - but a notable lack of invulnerability to Exterminator fire (cost 200 points)
2 full 10 man tactical squads, one with a Plasma gun and Plasma pistol and one with a Flamer
2 5 man LotD squads, one with a Melta and multi Melta and one with a Flamer and Heavy Flamer
a five man assault squad with Boltpistols (im not sure what else, they died in cannon fire before they could assault)
5 man tactical squad
Telion and about 8 scouts
A Vindicare assassin
Primarch Vulkan
Rhino
Rhino
Razorback
I had:
Darjeeling in her tank
another Battletank with Artificer hull, coaxial and pintle heavy stubbers, camo netting and armoured track guards
An Eradicator with Extra armour, artificer hull armoured track guards camo netting and a coaxial heavy stubber
2 Exterminators with pintle heavy stubbers and veteran crews
1 Thunderer with extra armour and a pintle heavy stubber
1 Deimos Laser Destroyer with a pintle heavy stubber and camo netting
CC squad with an MoO and MoF
2 veteran squads with Heavy Bolters and Forward Sentries
1 Veteran squad with Forward Sentries and a Melta
1 Veteran Squad with Forward Sentries and 2 Meltas
Lord Commissar
(The last three where hastily thrown in after seeing the special character)
End result: I won. All my squads - barring 5 from the double Melta squad - , my Thunderer and my Deimos where lost, one Battletank was immobilised by terrain and one by an unlucky Meltabomb attack. Everything he had, barring his Primarch was wiped. The Primarch was reduced to two wounds but IWND back to three.
End result:
I think he is starting to come round. Certainly there was less - actually none of the "IG tanks are OP" complaints. The game was fun and several times hinged on the balance such as when three troops assaulted a tank each (the captain, the surviving LotD sarge and a surviving Tactical Marine Sarge) only to whiff with the melta bombs and the captains sword only take two out of the three HP from the tank.
The only kicker was the primarch suddenly emerging from the wreck of the Razorback. I had not expected a Primarch.
Are you sure you were both playing 1.5k?
Off the top of my head, that marine list your opponent fielded is pushing 2k. Vulkan alone is ~450ish, plus the homebrew captain at 200, plus the vindis is already 1010.
If you were playing with 1500 points as the agreed upon value, you got fethed man. Do not play people like that. Don't even entertain the idea. Tell this person to stop cheating. Do not play him. Seriously.
I'm trusting your list was 1500pts without adding it all up.
*Edit* Forgot the assault squad. Easily puts him over 2k.
Seriously. Stop playing this guy. Sort him out or ignore him.
Thankyou for confirming this. I had thought there was something fishy when he started going on about how I didnt want to pop the razorback and what was in there was really nasty but when that entered the field I was sore pushed to believe it was within the points limit. That said, by this point all but one of the Vindicators where out of commission and the Primarchs escorting honour guard had ended up on the wrong side of my Tank Destroyer. One of the Tac squads was down to half strength and pinned behind the wreckage of its Rhino and the other was down to one man left alive. And the LotD flamer squad had vanished. And the Scouts had wound up on the wrong end of my Eradicator.
darkcloak wrote:Wow...
This is still going on?
I am hard up for a game, but I'd never play the OPs friend more than once!
Really though competitive rivalry is a good thing, but this doesn't sound like that at all. Sounds like this guy is taking advantage of your friendliness.
Maybe time to darkcloak him? And by that I mean tell him flat out you think he is being a douchebag.
There is an idea I have had, see the bottom of this post
Voidwraith wrote:Yeah...I had it around 2K without the Primarch (you also forgot the 3 vindicators and possibly the rhinos), and am extremely confused as to why the OP thinks his "friend" is starting to "come round" when it sounded as if he surprised him with the Primarch (at least that's what it sounded like from his description of what happened during the game).
It just sounds like an extremely disfunctional situation, but hey...they had fun that last game, who am I to judge?
Stop playing games with this guy where you just deploy some models and trust him to be honest about his list. You need to tell him to show you a printed copy of his army list, complete with points for every unit, before you put a single model on the table. And if he refuses he's continuing to be TFG and you should stop giving him more chances.
Im going to have too it seems
Lammikkovalas wrote:
master of ordinance wrote: End result: I won. All my squads - barring 5 from the double Melta squad - , my Thunderer and my Deimos where lost, one Battletank was immobilised by terrain and one by an unlucky Meltabomb attack. Everything he had, barring his Primarch was wiped. The Primarch was reduced to two wounds but IWND back to three.
End result:
I think he is starting to come round. Certainly there was less - actually none of the "IG tanks are OP" complaints. The game was fun and several times hinged on the balance such as when three troops assaulted a tank each (the captain, the surviving LotD sarge and a surviving Tactical Marine Sarge) only to whiff with the melta bombs and the captains sword only take two out of the three HP from the tank.
The only kicker was the primarch suddenly emerging from the wreck of the Razorback. I had not expected a Primarch.
Assuming that your list was actually a 1500 pt list then he might have some real gaming deficiency. I mean, seriously his list was about 2500 pts if it really was the primarch Vulkan and not He'stan. How do you possibly manage to lose in that situation? I know that people react to this kind of stuff in different ways but at this point I'd really give this guy some sort of an ultimatum to play by the rules, show your army list beforehand, no surprise primarchs, no unkillable homebrew units or characters. I know that all of those things, house rulings, list imbalance in a certain scenario, special characters etc. can be completely fine. They just have to be agreed on in a friendly game. I just don't consider it all that friendly if you try to pull off stunts like you've mentioned here... I mean, The Emperor character you mentioned in your opening post at 270 pts? With sevens across the board and a lvl 4 psyker mastery with all the goodies 720 points would be a lot closer. If your opponent isn't happy to let you field an exact copy of their homebrew character right there, right now then there's something wrong.
It was most definitely Vulkan, the model and the stats. My army was originally 1.5K but after seeing that character and looking at the stats I added in the bottom two sections and the LC as it was massively under priced. Still only took me to around 1750 though.
The reason I won is, I believe, down to tactics. I used to be a Space Marine player in 5th and I learned the strengths and weaknesses then. After that I took up Imperial Guard but I lacked tanks or the money to get them. From here I adapted historical tank hunting techniques as used in WW2 to destroy enemy tank heavy lists, hiding my Infantry and luring the enemy vehicles closer until they were within Melta range. Fromhere I also developed countermeasures and when I first acquired tanks (an Exterminator and a Thunderer converted from a totalled Rhino chassis) I used my knowledge of these, along with my studies of actual WW2 combined armed tactics to use them to great effect.
Fast forward a couple of years and I can pretty much hold my own against Space Marines performing a disordered assault.
Well, that is pretty much what it was. There was one Rhino coming up the left centre of the board, on in the centre, the Vindicators coming up the right with the Razorback containing Vulkan hitting me from the far right. Stopping it was pretty simple, and for some reason he chose not to run his Assault Marines for cover despite having them out in the open, instead he chose to rely on the fact that Nightfighting was in effect and hope I did not illuminate them (Spoiler, I illuminated them with a Battletank) and the LotD.... Well one ate two sections and an entire tank's worth of firepower and the other assaulted my CCS and ended up stuck there for over four game turns as my Warmington on sea first section refused to give any ground, with Captain Mainwering personally duelling the Sargent for three turns.
Oh, I forgot to mention the Devestators. There where also 5 devestators, a Sarge and four marines with Missile Launchers. I forgot about them earlier as they did almost nothing besides stun my Destroyer once before the combined wrath of one of my Battletank's and the MOO's bombardment finished them.
Anyway, He has agreed to play a 6th ed bunker assault but has said he will be bringing an unbound army and has told me I am limited to three tanks in a 2K game. I have told him (and he has not replied yet) that ou can not limit the heavy tanks in the Imperial Guard army.
If he complains I will tell him that if he wants to play against none tank armies he should challenge someone else. There is a Space Wolf player whom is always up for a game and there is also a Grey Knight player whom I know who playes a GK list allied with DA and uses the DA to set up a teleportation network around the battlefield, allowing his units to rapidly reposition.
Of these the former only uses a couple of tanks and the latter uses none. Think they will be suitable?
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
Thankyou for confirming this. I had thought there was something fishy when he started going on about how I didnt want to pop the razorback and what was in there was really nasty but when that entered the field I was sore pushed to believe it was within the points limit. That said, by this point all but one of the Vindicators where out of commission and the Primarchs escorting honour guard had ended up on the wrong side of my Tank Destroyer. One of the Tac squads was down to half strength and pinned behind the wreckage of its Rhino and the other was down to one man left alive. And the LotD flamer squad had vanished. And the Scouts had wound up on the wrong end of my Eradicator.
Look, its pretty commendable (or sad on his end, combo of both perhaps) that you managed a win despite his blatant cheating, but I really don't see why you didn't check his list, or just flat out deny him the game.
I suppose if you're having fun then go for it, but someone who cheats probably isn't enjoyable to be around during the game either. I just don't see what you're getting out of this other than some misplaced pride (which should be satisfied now anyways after the win).
Oh, I forgot to mention the Devestators. There where also 5 devestators, a Sarge and four marines with Missile Launchers. I forgot about them earlier as they did almost nothing besides stun my Destroyer once before the combined wrath of one of my Battletank's and the MOO's bombardment finished them.
Absolutely absurd. He's literally playing you with a 1000 extra points. Unless you agreed to such a lopsided game and both had copies of the army lists with all point values clear and added correctly, stop playing this cheating filth.
Do it for everyone else that may ever have to play him. Someone needs to sort out this donkey-cave.
Anyway, He has agreed to play a 6th ed bunker assault but has said he will be bringing an unbound army and has told me I am limited to three tanks in a 2K game. I have told him (and he has not replied yet) that ou can not limit the heavy tanks in the Imperial Guard army.
The real question is...
Why are you still wanting to play him!? Especially after the last game where he brought nearly 1000 extra points, and keeps trying to impose rules on you.
Just move on man. You'll be happier, trust me.
If he complains I will tell him that if he wants to play against none tank armies he should challenge someone else. There is a Space Wolf player whom is always up for a game and there is also a Grey Knight player whom I know who playes a GK list allied with DA and uses the DA to set up a teleportation network around the battlefield, allowing his units to rapidly reposition.
Of these the former only uses a couple of tanks and the latter uses none. Think they will be suitable?
No one is suitable to play him because he's not suitable to play anyone. Don't let anyone play him until its explained to him that he's a cheating filty liar and an donkey-cave for imposing restrictions on other players while bringing home made nonsense himself. People like this will continue to cheat and act terribly until someone stands up to them and tells them the consequences and follow through.
Completely unnacceptable behaviour.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
I had a parent like this, no time in my life for people of this nature, it will cost you far more than it is worth.
Cut ties, it will only get better so they can be allowed to get worse.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
I hate to say this.... but your friend sounds like he is a cheater and a liar who's ego is too big for him to handle losing in a fair battle.
Also somehow he is so inept at the game ( or you might be one of the most impressive players in the world)
that he can't beat an 1500pt army with 2500pts of illegally taken, broken units.
I recommend that you don't play with this person again, and that you tell him that you don't enjoy being treated wrongly. You might also want to make an analysis of how he treats you in other areas of your life. If he acts like this over a game then he very likely acts similarly about everyday things, and it could actually be HARMFUL for you to be friends with him.
Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson
I had a parent like this, no time in my life for people of this nature, it will cost you far more than it is worth.
Cut ties, it will only get better so they can be allowed to get worse.
DoomShakaLaka wrote:I hate to say this.... but your friend sounds like he is a cheater and a liar who's ego is too big for him to handle losing in a fair battle.
Also somehow he is so inept at the game ( or you might be one of the most impressive players in the world)
that he can't beat an 1500pt army with 2500pts of illegally taken, broken units.
I recommend that you don't play with this person again, and that you tell him that you don't enjoy being treated wrongly. You might also want to make an analysis of how he treats you in other areas of your life. If he acts like this over a game then he very likely acts similarly about everyday things, and it could actually be HARMFUL for you to be friends with him.
Nah, he is a great person outside of the game. Its just in the game.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
4/4/0 
(cost 200 points)
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress 
