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nkelsch wrote: If people think 'sport hunting' is cruel, I hope they don't eat factory farmed meat. You don't know the definition of cruel until you know what happens in those places...
Ok, you gotta stop listening to the crazies.
People who raise animals for meat have every reason in the world to make sure the animals are not suffering. Animals which are in pain or a suffering make very bad meat, both in taste and appearance. If animals were truly suffering on the scale many wackos claim, the meat would never reach store shelves. It would be condemned during inspection, every piece of meat processed in America is individually inspected for quality BTW. Animals which are suffering do not make quality meat.
The vast majority of claims or videos regarding animal abuse are fabricated by activists, only a small portion are genuine and are always isolated incidents.
If those are the lies you tell yourself so you can sleep at night, so be it.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
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MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
nkelsch wrote: If people think 'sport hunting' is cruel, I hope they don't eat factory farmed meat. You don't know the definition of cruel until you know what happens in those places...
Ok, you gotta stop listening to the crazies.
People who raise animals for meat have every reason in the world to make sure the animals are not suffering. Animals which are in pain or a suffering make very bad meat, both in taste and appearance. If animals were truly suffering on the scale many wackos claim, the meat would never reach store shelves. It would be condemned during inspection, every piece of meat processed in America is individually inspected for quality BTW. Animals which are suffering do not make quality meat.
The vast majority of claims or videos regarding animal abuse are fabricated by activists, only a small portion are genuine and are always isolated incidents.
If those are the lies you tell yourself so you can sleep at night, so be it.
Lies? I say this as someone who actually knows a thing or two about animals, and farming in general. As opposed to activists who don't know jack squat about any of those things.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Yep most of the dodgy game hunters are American, it comes as a side effect of the gun culture Americans cultivate.
Thats what King George said!
Which one? I don't think any of them were sadistic slobs who got food on the ceiling. Neither was Teddy Roosevelt.
Er...what?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
nkelsch wrote: If people think 'sport hunting' is cruel, I hope they don't eat factory farmed meat. You don't know the definition of cruel until you know what happens in those places...
Ok, you gotta stop listening to the crazies.
People who raise animals for meat have every reason in the world to make sure the animals are not suffering. Animals which are in pain or a suffering make very bad meat, both in taste and appearance. If animals were truly suffering on the scale many wackos claim, the meat would never reach store shelves. It would be condemned during inspection, every piece of meat processed in America is individually inspected for quality BTW. Animals which are suffering do not make quality meat.
The vast majority of claims or videos regarding animal abuse are fabricated by activists, only a small portion are genuine and are always isolated incidents.
If those are the lies you tell yourself so you can sleep at night, so be it.
Its pretty ignorant if you cannot accept proven facts such as meat tastes horrible when it comes from abused, frightened, and mistreated animals.
If you think how we cultivate meat for our table is cruel, don't ever watch what happens in nature when a carnivore eats its prey.
Its pretty ignorant if you cannot accept proven facts such as meat tastes horrible when it comes from abused, frightened, and mistreated animals.
If you think how we cultivate meat for our table is cruel, don't ever watch what happens in nature when a carnivore eats its prey.
And it is pretty ignorant to dismiss widespread industry standards which are still in production today as 'isolated incidents by gotcha journalists' when only now are consumers beginning to explicitly request changes from many accepted practices which cause harm and cruel conditions and actions to animals. Some aspects of the industry are improving, a lot are not... These processes are well documented and widely accepted. Cheap food = abuse is accepted.
And even in 'free-range' raising of animals, cruel actions like nose-ringing are still done to pigs which creates a life of pain and frustration. Anesthetic-free castration is still the norm in pig farming. And we also still have Gestation Crating... which is not widely banned in the US and is still very much the 'norm'. Only in the past 5 years or so have companies begun to phase out such actions due to the awareness of consumers. And this industry standard practices, not even talking about clubbing and hanging which was recently found to be 'not abuse' in court.
And I agree that 'abused, frightened and mistreated animals' taste better. I think a majority of people have had nothing but 'abused, frightened and mistreated animals' their entire lives and can't tell when they have had good well-raised meat.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Your ignorance is showing.
Birthing crates are actually necessary to prevent the Sow from squishing her piglets. Nose rings haven't been used on a large scale for decades, but they are actually often the only effective way to control these animals. Especially boars and bulls, who are quite dangerous.
Really, the vast overwhelming majority of supposedly cruel practices are really just misconceptions and ignorance perpetuated by activists who prey on the public's lack of knowledge.
Did you know that putting leghorn chickens in larger cages actually makes them more likely to injure themselves? Because they are such high energy and easily stressed they have to either be tightly confined OR totally cage free. You can't have a middle ground, especially when any injury will quickly result in cannibalism(even free range birds will kill and eat each other if there is an injury). And when cage free they spend their time running around instead of actually producing eggs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/29 18:56:51
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Birthing crates are actually necessary to prevent the Sow from squishing her piglets.
Sows dont crush their piglets if they arent kept in exrtremely crampted conditions. Wild pigs and free range pigs can make a nest and care for and raise their piglets without crushing them.
However crate raised sows are mentally unbalanced, and also heavily confined, it is no wonder piglets would get crushed.
Also grey Templar, why do piglets teeth get crushed and their tails docked?
Want to come clean on that.
Really, the vast overwhelming majority of supposedly cruel practices are really just misconceptions.....
Bollocks is it. Even when you do have extreme activists are you saying their videos are fake. Did they make up the gestration crates and fill them with pigs on a film set.
How come time and again we see the same sorts of images. How come authorities in the western world made legislation proving ergonomic legislation, and how often the farming industry is given a deadline to meet new standards. Legislators would not pas legislation banning conditions and give a deadline for compliance if the industry didn't have farming practices that didn't match those figures.
Relax piggies, its all just a misconception. You are hallucinating and are actually in an open sty or a field somewhere. Honest.
.....and ignorance perpetuated by activists who prey on the public's lack of knowledge.
As for preying on the publics lack of knowledge, most of the industrial farming complexes deny the press access, some even go as far as to lobby for legislation banning admissability of insider videos.
If you want to dispel lack of knowledge let the press in to see the factory farms.
But that just wouldn't help your case though.
Did you know that putting leghorn chickens in larger cages actually makes them more likely to injure themselves? Because they are such high energy and easily stressed they have to either be tightly confined OR totally cage free.
Then use a different breed, then they can sit in a hutch with a reasonable run and make eggs.
You can't have a middle ground, especially when any injury will quickly result in cannibalism(even free range birds will kill and eat each other if there is an injury).
Actually you are making the entire living area a nest and nest death applies. Many animals not prone to cannibalism will eat a corpse from a nest death, its the easiest way to get rid of the body and cuts down on (most) disease spread.
And when cage free they spend their time running around instead of actually producing eggs.
They will get around to it. Your animals have lives of their own, and will provide you with their bounty in fair time. If that is not enough for you, if you want chickens to be locked up and lay lay lay it says a lot about the moral character of your farming that you have been denying as true. Maximise profit at the expense of any form of welfare. Thats not being a farmer, it's being a camp kommandant.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/29 19:24:34
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
If pigs were raised in any other way, only rich people could afford pork.
As for why piglets get their wolfteeth clipped and their tails docked, its to prevent them from injuring their mothers and each other. Pigs like to chew. Removing those teeth prevent them from hurting each other. Removing their tails prevents their penmates from chewing on each other. Less injury means greater animal welfare.
Mentally unbalanced? These aren't humans who we worry about their mental state. We raise these animals for food.
As for the chickens, you can't use any other breed or not use cages. Unless you want eggs to cost $10 a dozen.
Again, animals which are stressed or sick either don't produce food, or only produce bad food. Chickens are actually extremely sensitive to this. If a worker so much as drops a can lid on the floor and makes a loud noise it can stop the chicken from producing for a couple days. A few degrees change in temperature or a few candlefoot changes in light levels can also do this. The fact they lay eggs is proof they aren't as stressed as people claim. Its all about knowing the animal.
As for denying the press access, that is largely due to the public not understanding(Or not being willing to understand) the process because of decades of activist lies which have brainwashed everyone. Plus there is corporate espionage and disease control to worry about, disease being the big one. You can't just let anyone into your facility. Apple doesn't let reporters onto their RnD floors or production lines.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Excellent video
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
easysauce wrote: so ignorant.. if those pigs are not in those cages they generally prefer to eat each other... sounds like someone who never set foot on a farm lol
So free-range pig farming is a total bloodbath then?
Also, those conditions, whilst not as bad as some, are still totally miserable. It's just grey concrete. It's a prison.
You want to see a nice pig farm? Here you go:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/29 19:55:32
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Breotan wrote: Lion hunting should only be done hand-to-hand. Oh, and put it on Pay-Per-View. Same with bull fighting. Those pointy metal sticks are cheating.
Evolution gave lions claws, strong muscles, and sharp reflexes. It gave us brains to figure out who to make pointy metal sticks. Use the tools that nature provided you with.
Breotan wrote: Lion hunting should only be done hand-to-hand. Oh, and put it on Pay-Per-View. Same with bull fighting. Those pointy metal sticks are cheating.
Evolution gave lions claws, strong muscles, and sharp reflexes. It gave us brains to figure out who to make pointy metal sticks. Use the tools that nature provided you with.
Fair enough, the Lion and hunter can both only use what natural resources are within the arena
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Grey Templar wrote: If pigs were raised in any other way, only rich people could afford pork.
Not necessarily, you could place an artificial value on it, you could also distribute pay better. This already happens, beefstock is normally raised in fields.
As for why piglets get their wolfteeth clipped and their tails docked, its to prevent them from injuring their mothers and each other. Pigs like to chew. Removing those teeth prevent them from hurting each other. Removing their tails prevents their penmates from chewing on each other. Less injury means greater animal welfare.
Wild pigs dojnt need their teeth crushed, farm raised pigs dont wither, only caged pigs do. They do so for the reasons you described, because they hurt each other. As to why they hurt each other, it is because they are caged and get frustrated by their appaling living conditions and lack of personal space. It is just a symptom of the oppressive torturous existence they go through, the 'solution' of crushing their teeth of coursde isnt a solution, just a convenienece for the industry. The mental state of the pig remains.
Mentally unbalanced? These aren't humans who we worry about their mental state. We raise these animals for food.
No they arent humans, but it doesnt require a level of rights similar to a human for thesefarming methods to be wrong. A constant mental oppression is a very effective torture, it is certainly so when used on humans.
As for the chickens, you can't use any other breed or not use cages. Unless you want eggs to cost $10 a dozen.
I wonder what people have placed in traditional chicken coops for centuries then. Cats? If it wasnt chickens then perhaps they were, lay lots of eggs those cats do.
Come on.
Again, animals which are stressed or sick either don't produce food, or only produce bad food. Chickens are actually extremely sensitive to this. If a worker so much as drops a can lid on the floor and makes a loud noise it can stop the chicken from producing for a couple days. A few degrees change in temperature or a few candlefoot changes in light levels can also do this. The fact they lay eggs is proof they aren't as stressed as people claim. Its all about knowing the animal.
Bollocks, there are enough pictures of egg laying chickens in obvious extreme stress on the internet. I am counting being unable to spread wings so they atrophy as a fairly stressful condition.
As for denying the press access, that is largely due to the public not understanding(Or not being willing to understand) the process because of decades of activist lies which have brainwashed everyone. Plus there is corporate espionage and disease control to worry about, disease being the big one. You can't just let anyone into your facility. Apple doesn't let reporters onto their RnD floors or production lines.
If you think the practices are defensible the industry should try it, rather than shy away from the light.
Breotan wrote: Lion hunting should only be done hand-to-hand. Oh, and put it on Pay-Per-View. Same with bull fighting. Those pointy metal sticks are cheating.
Evolution gave lions claws, strong muscles, and sharp reflexes. It gave us brains to figure out who to make pointy metal sticks. Use the tools that nature provided you with.
Fair enough, the Lion and hunter can both only use what natural resources are within the arena
This is the reason for hunting with a bow.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/29 22:28:43
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
nkelsch wrote: If people think 'sport hunting' is cruel, I hope they don't eat factory farmed meat. You don't know the definition of cruel until you know what happens in those places...
Either it is food or it isn't... Hunting at least lets the animals walk around and experience a life before they are killed and eaten.
False Dichotomy.
While eating meat does not necessarily involve Cruel Factory farming (which is something that CAN be eliminated while still providing the meat), Sport, Trophy Hunting IS NECESSARILY cruel.
nkelsch wrote: If people think 'sport hunting' is cruel, I hope they don't eat factory farmed meat. You don't know the definition of cruel until you know what happens in those places...
Either it is food or it isn't... Hunting at least lets the animals walk around and experience a life before they are killed and eaten.
False Dichotomy.
While eating meat does not necessarily involve Cruel Factory farming (which is something that CAN be eliminated while still providing the meat), Sport, Trophy Hunting IS NECESSARILY cruel.
Breotan wrote: Lion hunting should only be done hand-to-hand. Oh, and put it on Pay-Per-View. Same with bull fighting. Those pointy metal sticks are cheating.
Evolution gave lions claws, strong muscles, and sharp reflexes. It gave us brains to figure out who to make pointy metal sticks. Use the tools that nature provided you with.
Fair enough, the Lion and hunter can both only use what natural resources are within the arena
Captain Kirk made a cannon from bamboo, rope, and Awesome.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I do not get the automatic 'he's got a tiny dick or he can't get it up' insult that so many people go to whenever someone does something they don't like. It's so.... infantile. And really, all it tells me is that that person has some sort of obsession with genitalia that that is where their mind goes oh so readily.
Breotan wrote: Lion hunting should only be done hand-to-hand. Oh, and put it on Pay-Per-View. Same with bull fighting. Those pointy metal sticks are cheating.
Evolution gave lions claws, strong muscles, and sharp reflexes. It gave us brains to figure out who to make pointy metal sticks. Use the tools that nature provided you with.
Fair enough, the Lion and hunter can both only use what natural resources are within the arena
Captain Kirk made a cannon from bamboo, rope, and Awesome.
"Look around you – can you form some sort of rudimentary lathe?"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/31 10:18:04
Bromsy wrote: I do not get the automatic 'he's got a tiny dick or he can't get it up' insult that so many people go to whenever someone does something they don't like. It's so.... infantile. And really, all it tells me is that that person has some sort of obsession with genitalia that that is where their mind goes oh so readily.
Its because they get a kick out of killing something. We have another name for them...psychotics.
I spit on game hunters. Lets dump your ass in Compton and see how much of a manly man you are you piece of gak.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Bromsy wrote: I do not get the automatic 'he's got a tiny dick or he can't get it up' insult that so many people go to whenever someone does something they don't like. It's so.... infantile. And really, all it tells me is that that person has some sort of obsession with genitalia that that is where their mind goes oh so readily.
Its because they get a kick out of killing something. We have another name for them...psychotics.
I spit on game hunters. Lets dump your ass in Compton and see how much of a manly man you are you piece of gak.
Don't forget to give them their uniform made out of bed sheets and pillow cases to make sure they get a real experience
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/31 13:39:01
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Get off of your high hipster Hot Topic horses - the nature of any predator, humans included, will promote predatory activity. Your brain gets a nice shot of dopamine every time you have sex, chase down an animal, eat, make a useful tool, etc. Newsflash: first person shooters, driving games, and sport hunting all tap the exact same drive to conquer and consume. And calling sport hunting "cruel" is abysmally ignorant. Watch a good nature show about predators for an hour or so and you'll see a hell of a lot more cruelty than in a hunting documentary. Nearly all of the animals I've taken using rifle or bow were DRT, which is a lot more than I can say for the animals that get mauled and eaten alive by Hyenas in the African Savannah, or by coyotes in the US.
Get off of your high hipster Hot Topic horses - the nature of any predator, humans included, will promote predatory activity. Your brain gets a nice shot of dopamine every time you have sex, chase down an animal, eat, make a useful tool, etc. Newsflash: first person shooters, driving games, and sport hunting all tap the exact same drive to conquer and consume. And calling sport hunting "cruel" is abysmally ignorant. Watch a good nature show about predators for an hour or so and you'll see a hell of a lot more cruelty than in a hunting documentary. Nearly all of the animals I've taken using rifle or bow were DRT, which is a lot more than I can say for the animals that get mauled and eaten alive by Hyenas in the African Savannah, or by coyotes in the US.
I'll restate: Its because they get a kick out of killing something. We have another name for them...psychotics.
You know what other animal plays with its prey before killing it? Cats. Cats are evil. They are first against the wall when the great Dachshund revolution comes. Trophy hunters are like cats. Therefore trophy hunters are evil too, and will be put against the wall when the revolution comes. Repent yee sinners of your catlike sins!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/31 14:12:53
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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