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 jah-joshua wrote:
reading this thread reminds me why i don't have any kids, and why i live in Mexico...
my monthly total cost of living is between $500 and $600usd, depending on how much i splurged on cashews and pistachios that month...
i live two blocks from the beach in Mazatlan, and live well for $7,000usd a year, but i come home to Hermosa Beach and people are not even blinking at a $10 million dollar price tag for a house on the beach...

the funny thing is, i don't even feel poor...
i'm happy with warmer water, my two block walk to the beach, and a lifestyle of more surfing and less working...

cheers
jah

"Poor" is relative and dependent upon a number of factors including cost of living and average salary for the area. I used to spend my summers in Thailand and would spend about $1,000 for 2 months of living like a king, obviously I can't do that in my home state and certainly not in Japan where I lived at the time.

Something I provide to Administrators and Teachers to give them an idea of the kinds of decisions that the parents of underprivileged children have to make:

http://playspent.org/

 agnosto wrote:
Something I provide to Administrators and Teachers to give them an idea of the kinds of decisions that the parents of underprivileged children have to make:

http://playspent.org/

Interesting link.

I think there are some disingenuous choices in there. (My only shoe options are $100 brand name and $10 thrift store, etc.)

Interesting nonetheless.

It's not a complete simulation of modern American consumer life.

However it's shocking how much health insurance costs in the USA.

If you are unemployed in the UK, at least all your medical needs will be met by the state.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's not a complete simulation of modern American consumer life.

However it's shocking how much health insurance costs in the USA.

If you are unemployed in the UK, at least all your medical needs will be met by the state.

Yeah, costs went up significantly for a lot of people under the ACA.

Anecdotal, we saw around a 45% increase in our overall premiums.

Neat idea, made it with a bit more than 200$ at the end.

 agnosto wrote:
Something I provide to Administrators and Teachers to give them an idea of the kinds of decisions that the parents of underprivileged children have to make:

http://playspent.org/

Couldn't complete it- I succumbed to anxiety at around day 12.

There are indeed some disingenuous choices, I.E. either pay $30 for a baby-sitter or don't go (I don't have siblings/cousins/friends in this hypothetical who might be willing to do it for free?). However on the whole it's a pretty stark and reasonable snap-shot of how much it sucks to be poor, and how out of touch with reality people who champion "If you're poor it's you're fault!" are.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's not a complete simulation of modern American consumer life.

However it's shocking how much health insurance costs in the USA.

Health insurance is insanely expensive because it's most often laid on the backs of everyone - and it's a tricky one. What makes medical services so expensive are long-term patients. Cancer etc. The cost for these individuals keep exploding for years and everyone has to carry them. In Germany, most people pay 15.5% of their pre-taxes salary for health insurance. You must have a health insurance in Germany. "Almost" everyone pays 15.5% because some people have the option to get a private health insurance that offers much, much, much better services at lower cost. Sounds crazy, but that's because you pay for you and yourself only. The healthier you are, the less you pay and vice versa. Plus in order to qualify for a private health insurance, you have to either have a very high monthly income (~55.000€ before taxes, German average is ~40.000€ pre taxes). It's cheaper because you don't have to pay for others.

Now...that's the tricky part for all non-privileged people. You cannot lower the fees as cost keep rising by an immense amount. Raising wages? Inflation. Force long-term ill people to pay more? You'd be pressing them into povery or, generally, payment problems...morals of "You're sick, bad luck, pay more!" left aside.

 cincydooley wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Something I provide to Administrators and Teachers to give them an idea of the kinds of decisions that the parents of underprivileged children have to make:

http://playspent.org/

Interesting link.

I think there are some disingenuous choices in there. (My only shoe options are $100 brand name and $10 thrift store, etc.)

Interesting nonetheless.

Very true. I think it's primary utility is in presenting some of the decisions, and their potential repercussions, that people in poverty are often forced to make.

 cincydooley wrote:


Anecdotal, we saw around a 45% increase in our overall premiums.

What's funny is, my state publicly stated they had a decrease in premiums "across the board".... What they were actually saying though, was that the overall premiums for people who opted for a "silver plan" went "down" compared to equivalent, pre-ACA insurance. Bronze and Gold plans were all up across the state, and had the highest proportion of enrollment.

Huh, Me and my mothers Insurance droped by nearly 100$. while our copay dropped like 25 i think.
and the entire UC system got better insurance.
In my experiance ACA helped more people then it hurt.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Huh, Me and my mothers Insurance droped by nearly 100$. while our copay dropped like 25 i think.
and the entire UC system got better insurance.
In my experiance ACA helped more people then it hurt.

I have trouble believing that unless you are on an ACA plan.

I am, I used to not because it was so expensive. But my mom was on a private one. SO yes, my family is doing BETTER with the ACA

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I am, I used to not because it was so expensive. But my mom was on a private one. SO yes, my family is doing BETTER with the ACA

Congrats. Many people are not. Individual plans and small group plans have risen in all but 6 states. Something around 15 states have see a 30% or more increase. And that's on premiums.

Out of pocket caps have increased exponentially as well, in many instances.

But you got yours. So all is right.

Th ACA can go fall into the Pacific Ocean and take much of California with it.

Personally, I can't wait until we start applying the principles of the ACA to life and car insurance. Get rid of all that horrible discrimination.

But now more people(Like my broke family) can afford it. Heck, my sisters mom finally got life saving medicine from it.
But nope, the rich and those well off are paying a bit more, so we better stop it.
Oh, and good stuff showing your hatred for californians there.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
But now more people(Like my broke family) can afford it. Heck, my sisters mom finally got life saving medicine from it.
But nope, the rich and those well off are paying a bit more, so we better stop it.
Oh, and good stuff showing your hatred for californians there.

Rich and well off? Get over that, and quickly. The largest population affected by the price increases are the very middle class.

I keep thinking you'll actually learn something useful one of these years you're at university. I continue to be disappointed.

Like I said, I look forward to applying the principles of the ACA to life and car insurance to stop all the egregious and unfair discrimination going on in those industries, risk and actuary tables be damned.

Um, Car insurance is already required if you get a car.
And Middle Class? So? The middle class is what I would describe as "Well Off" considering they can shoulder it.
And I am learning stuff in University, like how the poor and working class are constantly gakked upon by those on top. One of these days, I hope you realize that, but I continue to be disappointed.

Thats not always the case. Many middle class families live paycheck to paycheck. Tacking on several hundred more a month can break the budget easily.

Then, in most circles, those would likely be called the working class, or likely, lower-middle class.
Middle Class typically is of the higher end of Income, right below Upper class.
Upper-class
Middle-class
Working-class
Poverty-class
Underclass

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Um, Car insurance is already required if you get a car.
And Middle Class? So? The middle class is what I would describe as "Well Off" considering they can shoulder it.
And I am learning stuff in University, like how the poor and working class are constantly gakked upon by those on top. One of these days, I hope you realize that, but I continue to be disappointed.

The middle class is well off? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The middle class is the class, especially now, saddled with the most student debt because they don't qualify for the assistance that the lower classes do.

Middle class is well off. FFS.

Working Class = Middle Class. its not a 4th class wedged between Middle and Lower.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Um, Car insurance is already required if you get a car.

Point spectacularly missed. Congrats.

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Um, Car insurance is already required if you get a car.
And Middle Class? So? The middle class is what I would describe as "Well Off" considering they can shoulder it.
And I am learning stuff in University, like how the poor and working class are constantly gakked upon by those on top. One of these days, I hope you realize that, but I continue to be disappointed.

The middle class is well off? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The middle class is the class, especially now, saddled with the most student debt because they don't qualify for the assistance that the lower classes do.

Middle class is well off. FFS.

Yup. Too poor to straight up afford college, but not poor enough to qualify for financial aid.

My college tuition would effectively get cut in half if my dad made $20,000 less a year.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Working Class = Middle Class. its not a 4th class wedged between Middle and Lower.

Yes there very much is. Working Class does not equal Middle. Middle class tends to be proffesionals, Tech Worker, things of that Ilk. Working tend to be construction, Trade, Teaching, and other things.
Seriously, go take a basic Sociology class, they will explain why Middle Class is not what people think it is.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Then, in most circles, those would likely be called the working class, or likely, lower-middle class.
Middle Class typically is of the higher end of Income, right below Upper class.
Upper-class
Middle-class
Working-class
Poverty-class
Underclass

Again, no idea what you're talking about:

http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-in-every-us-state-2015-4

Underclass, eh? Are these people that wear t-shirts to black tie events? Or just freeman and sophomores?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Working Class = Middle Class. its not a 4th class wedged between Middle and Lower.

Yes there very much is. Working Class does not equal Middle. Middle class tends to be proffesionals, Tech Worker, things of that Ilk. Working tend to be construction, Trade, Teaching, and other things.
Seriously, go take a basic Sociology class, they will explain why Middle Class is not what people think it is.

You don't know what the feth you're talking about.

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Um, Car insurance is already required if you get a car.

Point spectacularly missed. Congrats.

Ok, then, rather then being snide, explain. I told you that the law states that if you have a car, you must have insurance.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Working Class = Middle Class. its not a 4th class wedged between Middle and Lower.

Yes there very much is. Working Class does not equal Middle. Middle class tends to be proffesionals, Tech Worker, things of that Ilk. Working tend to be construction, Trade, Teaching, and other things.
Seriously, go take a basic Sociology class, they will explain why Middle Class is not what people think it is.

You could divide the Upper, Middle, and Lower classes into infinite brackets if you wanted to.

Arbitrarily drawing a line between people who do skilled manual labor and those who have more technical positions is silly. Especially when they're making similar amounts of money and living in roughly identical living situations.

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Then, in most circles, those would likely be called the working class, or likely, lower-middle class.
Middle Class typically is of the higher end of Income, right below Upper class.
Upper-class
Middle-class
Working-class
Poverty-class
Underclass

Again, no idea what you're talking about:

http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-in-every-us-state-2015-4

Underclass, eh? Are these people that wear t-shirts to black tie events? Or just freeman and sophomores?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Working Class = Middle Class. its not a 4th class wedged between Middle and Lower.

Yes there very much is. Working Class does not equal Middle. Middle class tends to be proffesionals, Tech Worker, things of that Ilk. Working tend to be construction, Trade, Teaching, and other things.
Seriously, go take a basic Sociology class, they will explain why Middle Class is not what people think it is.

You don't know what the feth you're talking about.

Im starting to think you dont. There is an under-class, they are called homeless and Refugees.

Homeless and Refugees are the bottom rung of the Lower Class, possibly. Assuming they don't have job skills which would move them into another class if they were to find employment, like many refugees do.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Um, Car insurance is already required if you get a car.

Point spectacularly missed. Congrats.

Ok, then, rather then being snide, explain. I told you that the law states that if you have a car, you must have insurance.

The elimination of risk tables and "pre-existing conditions." The inequality between how much men pay for life and car insurance vs. women (because you'll recall our current POTUs making such a big stink about women paying more for health care).

But it's all good. You should pay the same amount for insurance as the redneck with 4 DUIs on his record.