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 Wyzilla wrote:

 MadMaverick76 wrote:
I must agree that GW is giving out the 40k license a little too much. Regicide, Kill Team, Space Hulk, Carnage, Some Tower defense game?, Martyr, Armageddon....and the list is growing. While some of these games have ended up being decent little "apps" the line lacks the substance of the DoW franchise, or the old Epic games, or even Chaos Gate.

I have seen the recent Eternal Crusade videos and summaries, and I am not impressed. It looks just like Space Marine multiplayer, nothing else other than the addition of some vehicles, which were purposed prior to the closure of THQ. I think that was a major nail in the coffin for 40k games. Also the fact that Eternal Crusade has been in long development as an MMO, and then with the changing in developers basically started the game over from scratch.

Do any of you remember the gameshots with the Black Templar Standing in front of a titan? That got me amped, but recent Alpha footage looks more like Space Marine, and less like an rpg/mmo we all deserve in the 40k universe. I will give the game a shot when it comes out, but recent GW additions have proven they are whoring out the label to make as much $$$ as they can (which a business should do, hopefully not at the cost of consumers).

Eternal Crusade has absolutely nothing in common with Dark Millennium.

That's the problem. Dark millennium was to be the MMO we all hoped it could be. It was canceled and from its ashes Eternal Crusade rose. So stating it has nothing in common with it is erroneous considering Behaviour hired former Vigil Devs, and that the MMO transferred right at the dissolution of THQ. A quick Google search will yield all this information.

I know this has probably been said, but GW did allow Blizzard to make a Warhammer game.

It was called Warcraft (Don't believe me? Look it up http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1166551-Finally-confirmed-Warcraft-was-intended-to-be-a-Warhammer-RTS) Patrick Wyatt confirms it in an interview with Kotaku, he was the Producer for WC1&2.

Blizzard do not want anything to do with 3rd party IP, and I don't blame them. But also, why do we have to turn every single IP into an MMO? Keep Warhammer as its meant to be, as a RTS game. I love Blizzard games, but i'd rather let Relic and Sega keep the IP so I can get DoW 3 and Warhammer: Total War.

Also, in regard to OP, Starcrafts lore is a big as Blizzard want it to be since they own it, same as Warcrafts lore. They can make more gak up as they go along. You really, truly believe Blizzard, of all companies, would let Starcraft die? You havn't been paying attention freind (WoW is on its 6th X-pac for Ra's sake)

Izural wrote:
I know this has probably been said, but GW did allow Blizzard to make a Warhammer game.

It was called Warcraft (Don't believe me? Look it up http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1166551-Finally-confirmed-Warcraft-was-intended-to-be-a-Warhammer-RTS) Patrick Wyatt confirms it in an interview with Kotaku, he was the Producer for WC1&2.

No, they did not. The article that you (among others) have brought up several times by now, is fake.

 Formosa wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
40k MMO? Yes please. But for the love of all things holy, keep Blizzard away from it.

Why? Because Blizzard made the most popular and enduring MMO of all time and therefore the proper thing to do would be to hate Blizzard for being successful.

In NZ we call that tall poppy syndrome.

No, because blizzard made one of the best mmo's of all time and has since beat that dead horse so much it's just paste, personally, I hate world of warcraft, it's a terrible game that eats people's lives. Starcraft and warcraft were once great games, but they don't provide what I want from a rts these days, too cartoony in graphics, too simplistic (as a balance factor I've been told) and.... Just not.... Big enough, give me warcraft or Starcraft on the supreme commander scale and I'd be happy, get rid of all that chappy 90's rtsrpg crap.

You think StarCraft and WarCraft are "too simplistic"? In what way? Most units have unique abilities, each race is unique in how it builds, works and fights and balance is pretty great - Each race has a ton of entirely different yet viable play styles which you have to adjust according to the enemies play style. Claiming that Supreme Commander is more complex while it has way less unit types (that are also less diverse and unique) and gameplay mechanics and is generally more of a "spam built stuff and rally point your factories to the battlefield" kind of game kinda baffles me, to be honest.

*edit* Oh, and StarCraft doesn't have that "90's rtsrpg crap", too.

idk, even if the "rumors" are false, the settings are remarkably similar, to the point where GW would be on good standing to sue, so I doubt the claims of falseness. Blizzard just doesn't make the right "scale" of game for warhammer. that was my only complaint about DoW 2, it seemed to small.

 Redcruisair wrote:

Izural wrote:
I know this has probably been said, but GW did allow Blizzard to make a Warhammer game.

It was called Warcraft (Don't believe me? Look it up http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1166551-Finally-confirmed-Warcraft-was-intended-to-be-a-Warhammer-RTS) Patrick Wyatt confirms it in an interview with Kotaku, he was the Producer for WC1&2.

No, they did not. The article that you (among others) have brought up several times by now, is fake.

Just because you keep repeating that doesn't make it true.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

Izural wrote:
I know this has probably been said, but GW did allow Blizzard to make a Warhammer game.

It was called Warcraft (Don't believe me? Look it up http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1166551-Finally-confirmed-Warcraft-was-intended-to-be-a-Warhammer-RTS) Patrick Wyatt confirms it in an interview with Kotaku, he was the Producer for WC1&2.

No, they did not. The article that you (among others) have brought up several times by now, is fake.

Just because you keep repeating that doesn't make it true.

It does when you bother to look past to first few link that show up when you search for info. The rumor has been around since Warcraft was realsed doesn't make it right. How much did they pay for the rights to use GW IP and not attach the IPs me to the title. If you are not going to bother doing real research for they the truth that little tidbit should start you on the right path.

On the other hand, Raynor being a complete arsehole at the end of Heart of the Swarm would make perfect sense if he was a 40k character instead of supposedly a good guy from a heroic fantasy setting.

 MadMaverick76 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 MadMaverick76 wrote:
I must agree that GW is giving out the 40k license a little too much. Regicide, Kill Team, Space Hulk, Carnage, Some Tower defense game?, Martyr, Armageddon....and the list is growing. While some of these games have ended up being decent little "apps" the line lacks the substance of the DoW franchise, or the old Epic games, or even Chaos Gate.

I have seen the recent Eternal Crusade videos and summaries, and I am not impressed. It looks just like Space Marine multiplayer, nothing else other than the addition of some vehicles, which were purposed prior to the closure of THQ. I think that was a major nail in the coffin for 40k games. Also the fact that Eternal Crusade has been in long development as an MMO, and then with the changing in developers basically started the game over from scratch.

Do any of you remember the gameshots with the Black Templar Standing in front of a titan? That got me amped, but recent Alpha footage looks more like Space Marine, and less like an rpg/mmo we all deserve in the 40k universe. I will give the game a shot when it comes out, but recent GW additions have proven they are whoring out the label to make as much $$$ as they can (which a business should do, hopefully not at the cost of consumers).

Eternal Crusade has absolutely nothing in common with Dark Millennium.

That's the problem. Dark millennium was to be the MMO we all hoped it could be. It was canceled and from its ashes Eternal Crusade rose. So stating it has nothing in common with it is erroneous considering Behaviour hired former Vigil Devs, and that the MMO transferred right at the dissolution of THQ. A quick Google search will yield all this information.

Why yes, congratulations. A game dev company hired a person with previous experience on 40k games, even in an alpha state, just like they hired guys from Crytek. Eternal Crusade uses no assets from Dark Millennium- it is not related to DM in any way. It hasn't "risen from the ashes" as Eternal Crusade isn't even using the same engine. It would be pretty damn obvious if the games were actually related, as EC would then have textured models that didn't look like a High School student's first attempt at making a model from scratch for Gary's Mod.

Simply having old staff members does not make a game related. Dark Millennium and Eternal Crusade are completely separate entities if you bothered to look into them at all, nothing produced for DM was transferred over into EC.

 Brennonjw wrote:
idk, even if the "rumors" are false, the settings are remarkably similar, to the point where GW would be on good standing to sue, so I doubt the claims of falseness.

Given how bad GW did last time they tried to take someone to court over an IP dispute I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard walked away a couple of million richer from that.

There really isn't much that could be sued over, similar concepts do not a lawsuit make, as IP does not cross from one medium to another nor does it cover deviations. That's the exact problem GW had with Chapterhouse, they were trying to say CHs model looked like a bit of art GW did, and that CH models looked similar to GW models (but clearly not exact copies).

Blizzard is too large to have any reason to license other IPs.

They've successfully launched several games of differing genres off the Warcraft IP alone that are mega-popular.

It does when you bother to look past to first few link that show up when you search for info. The rumor has been around since Warcraft was realsed doesn't make it right. How much did they pay for the rights to use GW IP and not attach the IPs me to the title. If you are not going to bother doing real research for they the truth that little tidbit should start you on the right path.

Financial terms of a deal brokered 20 years ago are not likely to be found on the internet, mainly because A) the internet then was not what it is now and b) Those details are probably considered trade secrets, and so would not be publicly available anyway. Especially considering the deal never came to pass, it doesn't matter what the offer was.

But, again, follow Wyatt's words to the source:

http://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/the-making-of-warcraft-part-1

Here, he again discusses the potential deal with GW, which never came about, and directly states that Warhammer was one of the definitive inspirations for Warcraft in terms of looks and appearance. While the core gameplay and mechanics were taken from Dune2 and other, previous RTS games, the fact that it's Orc(k)s vs Humans, and not factions based on other fictional groups (Monochromia Empire vs Desert Farmlandia), *also* coupled with the funny-sounding Orcs posits that WC was, in its intent, designed to be a Warhammer project that just never came to be.

After all, walking into the business meeting with GW, it helps to have a product they can easily identify with, and recognize where it fits into their own product line. WFB was a big deal at the time, so having Humans (Empire) vs Orcs (Orks) only makes sense, your team has already built it and would not (ideally) need to change much if the GW deal went through.

I actually remember hearing about this at the time, warcraft was clearly influenced by fantasy, nothing wrong with that, they've since gone in another (just as awful as aos) direction, shame, as the original warcraft games were pretty good.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 MadMaverick76 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 MadMaverick76 wrote:
I must agree that GW is giving out the 40k license a little too much. Regicide, Kill Team, Space Hulk, Carnage, Some Tower defense game?, Martyr, Armageddon....and the list is growing. While some of these games have ended up being decent little "apps" the line lacks the substance of the DoW franchise, or the old Epic games, or even Chaos Gate.

I have seen the recent Eternal Crusade videos and summaries, and I am not impressed. It looks just like Space Marine multiplayer, nothing else other than the addition of some vehicles, which were purposed prior to the closure of THQ. I think that was a major nail in the coffin for 40k games. Also the fact that Eternal Crusade has been in long development as an MMO, and then with the changing in developers basically started the game over from scratch.

Do any of you remember the gameshots with the Black Templar Standing in front of a titan? That got me amped, but recent Alpha footage looks more like Space Marine, and less like an rpg/mmo we all deserve in the 40k universe. I will give the game a shot when it comes out, but recent GW additions have proven they are whoring out the label to make as much $$$ as they can (which a business should do, hopefully not at the cost of consumers).

Eternal Crusade has absolutely nothing in common with Dark Millennium.

That's the problem. Dark millennium was to be the MMO we all hoped it could be. It was canceled and from its ashes Eternal Crusade rose. So stating it has nothing in common with it is erroneous considering Behaviour hired former Vigil Devs, and that the MMO transferred right at the dissolution of THQ. A quick Google search will yield all this information.

Why yes, congratulations. A game dev company hired a person with previous experience on 40k games, even in an alpha state, just like they hired guys from Crytek. Eternal Crusade uses no assets from Dark Millennium- it is not related to DM in any way. It hasn't "risen from the ashes" as Eternal Crusade isn't even using the same engine. It would be pretty damn obvious if the games were actually related, as EC would then have textured models that didn't look like a High School student's first attempt at making a model from scratch for Gary's Mod.

Simply having old staff members does not make a game related. Dark Millennium and Eternal Crusade are completely separate entities if you bothered to look into them at all, nothing produced for DM was transferred over into EC.

I believe you misinterpret anything that was said. EC has taken majority of its' modeling and animations from Space Marine. As I am not the developer I cannot state this as fact, but a comparison between the two seems relatively obvious to me. In regards to your comments, they are seperate games yes, but one only began after another was canceled. It was also announced within a short window of the canceled DM. Much of the concept of DM is comparable to EC. Take the time to read about DM's original aspirations and game plans versus EC, you will see they have much in common. You also need to read about how DM was going to be changed to a F2P from an MMO and also retitled to a possible name of "Inquisitor." Comparison of the two definitely sees that EC was drawn off of DM, just using the modeling/animations from Space Marine.

For two games to be related they don't need to use the same engine or models. Space Marine and DMO utilized the same engines, but not the same modeling/animations from what was seen of the minimal gameplay footage. All gameplay footage of EC looks like a Space Marine clone as many have pointed out.

 Psienesis wrote:

It does when you bother to look past to first few link that show up when you search for info. The rumor has been around since Warcraft was realsed doesn't make it right. How much did they pay for the rights to use GW IP and not attach the IPs me to the title. If you are not going to bother doing real research for they the truth that little tidbit should start you on the right path.

Financial terms of a deal brokered 20 years ago are not likely to be found on the internet, mainly because A) the internet then was not what it is now and b) Those details are probably considered trade secrets, and so would not be publicly available anyway. Especially considering the deal never came to pass, it doesn't matter what the offer was.

But, again, follow Wyatt's words to the source:

http://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/the-making-of-warcraft-part-1

Here, he again discusses the potential deal with GW, which never came about, and directly states that Warhammer was one of the definitive inspirations for Warcraft in terms of looks and appearance. While the core gameplay and mechanics were taken from Dune2 and other, previous RTS games, the fact that it's Orc(k)s vs Humans, and not factions based on other fictional groups (Monochromia Empire vs Desert Farmlandia), *also* coupled with the funny-sounding Orcs posits that WC was, in its intent, designed to be a Warhammer project that just never came to be.

After all, walking into the business meeting with GW, it helps to have a product they can easily identify with, and recognize where it fits into their own product line. WFB was a big deal at the time, so having Humans (Empire) vs Orcs (Orks) only makes sense, your team has already built it and would not (ideally) need to change much if the GW deal went through.

And that changes the fact my post was about WarCraft not being a GW IP game how. You are following along before posting right. Just because you look into something does mean what you put out belongs to something. I didn't say they never talk to GW about it, I said Warcraft is not or ever been a GW IP, even if it did cross their mind to tie it to the IP while in early development. Again why would you pay for an IP and not use it.