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GoblinChow wrote:
Age of Sigmar lost most of that. I can tolerate some cleaning up of the rules. Even a bit of streamlining and simplification wouldn't hurt the game. I hope they don't touch the basic combat system, as it is the heart of the game, and provides a lot of the "personality" that distinguishes 40k from the other hundreds of fanciful wargames out there. They need to leave the basics of the shooting phase, wounds, saves charging, overwatch, assaults and the like reasonably intact. The basic feel of the game is quite fun right now. If it stops being fun, challenging and exciting, I will take my money and find another game to spend it on.

Have you played AoS? It plays pretty much exactly like GW/40k with the same core move-shoot-save combat mechanics, but it's just a lot cleaner.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

GoblinChow wrote:
Age of Sigmar lost most of that. I can tolerate some cleaning up of the rules. Even a bit of streamlining and simplification wouldn't hurt the game. I hope they don't touch the basic combat system, as it is the heart of the game, and provides a lot of the "personality" that distinguishes 40k from the other hundreds of fanciful wargames out there. They need to leave the basics of the shooting phase, wounds, saves charging, overwatch, assaults and the like reasonably intact. The basic feel of the game is quite fun right now. If it stops being fun, challenging and exciting, I will take my money and find another game to spend it on.

Have you played AoS? It plays pretty much exactly like GW/40k with the same core move-shoot-save combat mechanics, but it's just a lot cleaner.

I personally don't feel the two games play or feel anything alike, outside of the most basic of mechanics (ie, d6 rolls, move/shoot/charge/assault basic framework). The devil is in the details I guess, as the way magic, charging, assault, dealing damage, and turn order work in AoS is so vastly different from 40K (and really I'm glad, they need to stay different).

In my perfect world, we'd get the 40K dataslate version of warscrolls, with unit and weapon rules fully self contained (and freely available). Codexes would be used for fluff and formation/detachments. We'd get the AoS casualty selection rules and eliminate unit sub-types outside of IC/MC/Vehicle (which is really just a tag for special rules) and just keep the unit sub-type style rules on the dataslate. The Psychic phase should be modified to tone it down a bit, maybe work more like the AoS version.

And for the love of all that is holy, keep the base-to-base measurement method vs model-to-model (which even AoS players don't use if possible).

I tried AoS, but it had such a pared down feel. It did have the same basic mechanics, but it felt a lot like Dungeons and Dragons 4e. In D&D 4e, it felt like every character class used the same mechanics with a couple of numbers adjusted and the names of the skills and attributes changed a bit. It felt like we were just repeating the same actions over with different numbers. 4e lost the connection between the story and the mechanics.

A friend came over with his Dark Eldars a couple of nights ago, and you could really feel the difference between the way his units and my units worked. You could feel the fluff in the combat system. The really tough Marines vs. the fast and fragile Eldar and the even faster and more fragile Harlequins. I never got that feel in AoS. It just ended up feeling like a neat little mathmatical dice rolling odds game with some nicely painted figures. Enough of the crunchy details and differences were gone. My experience in AoS was running somebody elses army, so I may not have been as attached to my units, but the whole game just seemed a bit more generic. I had to sell off my original Warhammer figures (All pre 40k) back when the kids were born, so I was actually more interested in the fantasy side of things when I returned. AoS should have really grabbed my heart, but it never did. I think the combat system in 40K combines with the characters and units well enough so that you can imagine different units as having different styles and personalities. Nothing in AoS gave me that thrill. (In all fairness, AoS had just gotten started at the time, and it may have developed some flavor in the meantime, but my initial experience left me flat.

OK, fair enough.