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 aka_mythos wrote:
The explanation GW seems to have settled on is that Drop Pods require a more involved support network to maintain and operate than Chaos marines have. When you turn planets into hellscapes it isn't easy for the Techmarines, that have largely been infected with Obliterator virus, to bring servitors and recovery ships to collect the Drop Pods to perform the necessary maintenance with what's likely an inconsistent supply of spare parts.

CSM should have something Drop pod-ish but given the fiction is shouldn't necessarily be the Astartes Drop Pods.

Can't they still use dreadclaws?

 aka_mythos wrote:
The explanation GW seems to have settled on is that Drop Pods require a more involved support network to maintain and operate than Chaos marines have. When you turn planets into hellscapes it isn't easy for the Techmarines, that have largely been infected with Obliterator virus, to bring servitors and recovery ships to collect the Drop Pods to perform the necessary maintenance with what's likely an inconsistent supply of spare parts.

CSM should have something Drop pod-ish but given the fiction is shouldn't necessarily be the Astartes Drop Pods.

CSM can just ride down in Khorne Skullz (TM) that when it lands it explodes out hitting everything around it with warp bone fragments while the occupants pile out of the now open topped skull. Its made of warp stuff so you don't need for logistics to recover it as more can be summonred.

 aka_mythos wrote:
The explanation GW seems to have settled on is that Drop Pods require a more involved support network to maintain and operate than Chaos marines have. When you turn planets into hellscapes it isn't easy for the Techmarines, that have largely been infected with Obliterator virus, to bring servitors and recovery ships to collect the Drop Pods to perform the necessary maintenance with what's likely an inconsistent supply of spare parts.

CSM should have something Drop pod-ish but given the fiction is shouldn't necessarily be the Astartes Drop Pods.

Maybe some sort of small tower/portal structure that a Sorcerer can raise anywhere on the field that spits out marines, terms and helbrutes that are in reserve?

 Wilson wrote:
I feel like the original poster is just winging this whole thread by rewording things we already know with a little bit of suggestion in the mix.

Oh, he writes the 'in depth" articles for Taco Bell, does he?

Warhams-77 wrote:
Exactly, Sersi

And a removal of Slaanesh from the range is some puritan Americans' agenda pushed on BOLS and just nonsense. The Khorne Bloodbound fluff sold via Warhammer Visions at magazine stores and supermarkets was so full of gore and brutality (including rape and canibalism) any content-sensitive parents would not allow this to be read by children and youths up to the age of at least 14. So GW evidently doesnt care about being kids-friendly. The Sylvaneth range comes with naked breasts, GW has no issue with releasing such models and clearly not with producing more 'nude' Slaanesh kits

Exalted for using common sense.

 Kirasu wrote:
Yup, the Vengeful Spirit.. Horus' old flagship and one of the largest vessels EVER created by the Imperium is 100% out of drop pods and that's why CSM can't use technology that all marines had access to! Makes total sense.. absolutely no ability to replace them! Rhinos? Predators? Land Raiders? No problem! But super common drop pods? Impossible!

The Traitor Legions found that the Drop Pods were an especially popular target for possession and the possessed drop pods had a far greater tendency to eat its occupants than other possessed vehicles, so they decided to abandon drop pods.

Either that or they all got damaged and Horus left the STC programming for making them in the back pocket of his other pair of pants, which accidentally got left back on Terra before he rebelled.



I wouldn't be surprised to see all 4 legions eventually., but not all at once. At least they're remembering that there are things in Chaos that aren't Khorne.

Cosmic Schwung wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
The explanation GW seems to have settled on is that Drop Pods require a more involved support network to maintain and operate than Chaos marines have. When you turn planets into hellscapes it isn't easy for the Techmarines, that have largely been infected with Obliterator virus, to bring servitors and recovery ships to collect the Drop Pods to perform the necessary maintenance with what's likely an inconsistent supply of spare parts.

CSM should have something Drop pod-ish but given the fiction is shouldn't necessarily be the Astartes Drop Pods.

Can't they still use dreadclaws?

Yes and that's a good example of a drop-pod-ish alternative. Dreadclaws are of a more multi-purpose landing oriented aircraft, being somewhere between a drop pod and cerastus assault ram in its purpose.

I can't believe there are still people arguing that we shouldn't have Legion rules.

There are still far more World Eaters or Iron Warriors than there are Blood Angels in the galaxy, even when broken up into multiple warbands. They should have their own rules, and the Forge World method (a central list that everyone uses with add-ons for a few units, characters and army special rules) is the best way to do it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I can't believe there are still people arguing that we shouldn't have Legion rules.

There are still far more World Eaters or Iron Warriors than there are Blood Angels in the galaxy, even when broken up into multiple warbands. They should have their own rules, and the Forge World method (a central list that everyone uses with add-ons for a few units, characters and army special rules) is the best way to do it.

Exalted.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I can't believe there are still people arguing that we shouldn't have Legion rules.

There are still far more World Eaters or Iron Warriors than there are Blood Angels in the galaxy, even when broken up into multiple warbands. They should have their own rules, and the Forge World method (a central list that everyone uses with add-ons for a few units, characters and army special rules) is the best way to do it.

Who is crazy enough to say Legion rules would be bad? I would love them!

What other special chars besides magnus and ahriman could there be? Sobek and Hathor Mat would be cool. Maybe that khayon guy?

The only people I imagine arguing against legion rules are just GW apologists trying to keep themselves happy with the status quo.


By the way, I can totally buy into the whole chaos god upgrade kit, but god-specific books, eeeeh...

But while I'm here I may as well ask about a 40k Ahriman and Silver Tower miniatures boxes (Tzaangors in particular)

 Omega-soul wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
In addition to how dubious Natfka's anonymous rumor sources are in general, and how fishy the text is worded, why make a Chaos Space Marine Patriarch compatible with a Lord of Change? They are from different factions and GW has all the tech and staff to produce seprate kits for each one. Kairos on the other hand would be more likely and they wont make it a triple kit, will they? The era of re-using parts of models has gone with the new tech imo. They could have made a Glottkin and a GUO, but they haven't.

Because it so much profitable than stand alone kit.
There is a Bloodthirster with 3 variants and Skarbrand that is half-bloodthirster kit.
I wouldn't be surprised with the same treatment LoC/Fateweaver as default kit and Magnus as a differents box but with the sprue from first one.

The problem with that example is that Skarband is a Bloodthirster. While Magnus is not a Lord of Change. We might see at least two or more variants of the LOC, and Kairos as a separate box with reused sprues. But not Magnus. Neither Nagash nor Glottkin were dual kits after all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 aka_mythos wrote:
The explanation GW seems to have settled on is that Drop Pods require a more involved support network to maintain and operate than Chaos marines have. When you turn planets into hellscapes it isn't easy for the Techmarines, that have largely been infected with Obliterator virus, to bring servitors and recovery ships to collect the Drop Pods to perform the necessary maintenance with what's likely an inconsistent supply of spare parts.

CSM should have something Drop pod-ish but given the fiction is shouldn't necessarily be the Astartes Drop Pods.

We don't need drop pods just something comparable to what a drop pod does. Just give CSM the option to buy DS for its units for a price with reduce scatter; call it warp rift/gate/etc. It happens enough in the fluff and even in some of our data sheets to justify it.

Warhams-77 wrote:
In addition to how dubious Natfka's anonymous rumor sources are in general, and how fishy the text is worded, why make a Chaos Space Marine Patriarch compatible with a Lord of Change?

One reason would be to save up on sprue costs.

Say Magnus is 2 sprues. Say LOC is 2 sprue. But dual kit you get it with 3 sprues.

One less sprue for PLASTIC models is pretty significant saving.

Depends on what kind of look they would be looking for on LOC. If it's close enough to Magnus that with good sprue design they can cut down on different sprues they need to produce multi-boxing would make more money.

Combo box or individual has never been about what they CAN do but, surprise surprise, what they deem to be most PROFITABLE.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I can't believe there are still people arguing that we shouldn't have Legion rules.

There are still far more World Eaters or Iron Warriors than there are Blood Angels in the galaxy, even when broken up into multiple warbands. They should have their own rules, and the Forge World method (a central list that everyone uses with add-ons for a few units, characters and army special rules) is the best way to do it.

Who is crazy enough to say Legion rules would be bad? I would love them!

Me. I would prefer snowflake rules from loyalists be taken away. It just pigeonholes armies, makes for unfluffy armies and results in codex hopping where one days imperial fists are next day white scars depending on does army have tactical marines or bikes(despite the fact that most white scars are still tactical marines. Not bikes)

tneva82 wrote:
Me. I would prefer snowflake rules from loyalists be taken away. It just pigeonholes armies, makes for unfluffy armies and results in codex hopping where one days imperial fists are next day white scars depending on does army have tactical marines or bikes(despite the fact that most white scars are still tactical marines. Not bikes)

That sounds like a problem with the people you're playing.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Me. I would prefer snowflake rules from loyalists be taken away. It just pigeonholes armies, makes for unfluffy armies and results in codex hopping where one days imperial fists are next day white scars depending on does army have tactical marines or bikes(despite the fact that most white scars are still tactical marines. Not bikes)

That sounds like a problem with the people you're playing.

That is common for tournaments.

You have no reason to NOT use white scars if you have lots of bikes(well okay ravenwing). You get free rules. Similarly having tons of tactical marines(that would be fluffy white scar list) you are taking tons of unit that don't really benefit that much from white scar rules while losing all the benefits imperial fist doctrine gives you.

That's what special snowflake rules give. They drive out armies into same pattern to maximize benefit you get. And as proven already they don't really encourage fluffy armies. Just look at any white scar list at tournaments. Seen much tactical marines lately? I have yet to see white scar army dominated by tactical marines. Howabout white scar army with devastators? Seen those lately?

tneva82 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Me. I would prefer snowflake rules from loyalists be taken away. It just pigeonholes armies, makes for unfluffy armies and results in codex hopping where one days imperial fists are next day white scars depending on does army have tactical marines or bikes(despite the fact that most white scars are still tactical marines. Not bikes)

That sounds like a problem with the people you're playing.

That is common for tournaments.

You have no reason to NOT use white scars if you have lots of bikes(well okay ravenwing). You get free rules. Similarly having tons of tactical marines(that would be fluffy white scar list) you are taking tons of unit that don't really benefit that much from white scar rules while losing all the benefits imperial fist doctrine gives you.

That's what special snowflake rules give. They drive out armies into same pattern to maximize benefit you get. And as proven already they don't really encourage fluffy armies. Just look at any white scar list at tournaments. Seen much tactical marines lately? I have yet to see white scar army dominated by tactical marines. Howabout white scar army with devastators? Seen those lately?

If it makes you feel better I have never included any of those things in my CHAOS marine armies.

Joyboozer wrote:
If it makes you feel better I have never included any of those things in my CHAOS marine armies.

But you can bet whatever you wish that were legion rules introduced you could predict composition of army just by looking what legion it fields. And often see army that isn't even that accurate to the fluff.

Just 'cause mistake was made doesn't mean correct solution is to make another mistake. Correct is to fix the original mistake.

tneva82 wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
If it makes you feel better I have never included any of those things in my CHAOS marine armies.

But you can bet whatever you wish that were legion rules introduced you could predict composition of army just by looking what legion it fields. And often see army that isn't even that accurate to the fluff.

Just 'cause mistake was made doesn't mean correct solution is to make another mistake. Correct is to fix the original mistake.

Legion rules as a concept is definitely not the problem. FW has done legion rules justice and kept them EXTREMELY fluff-accurate, fun and viable.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Kirasu wrote:
I find it pretty asinine that CSM don't get "heresy rules" when SM get ALL sorts of horus heresy units magically inserted into their list of usable units. If anyone should have heresy rules it's the ORIGINAL TRAITOR LEGIONS.

but whatever.. obviously GW understands their fluff differently.

Logistics. The Imperium can still build a lot of things because they have working forge worlds and old STCs.

Should have thought about that before you embraced the dark gods. A tech priest builds blessed war machines for the glory of the Imperium.

Your dark mechanicus just wants to see what happens if he puts a giant flamethrower on a mechanical dragon, or if he can make a giant mechanical dog with rotary cannons on its back.

This is actually not true. IA13 tells that many Crusade/Heresy-era items are still in production by the Dark Mechanicum because they took the schematics with them when they fled (and presumably destroyed local records to deny them to the Imperium). Enough that the Land Raider Proteus is exceptional in that all examples of the vehicle amongst Chaos forces are either stolen or over ten thousand years old because Chaos forces can't make them.

It looks as if we've exhausted this one...