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Yeh... they best do something about that. If not, it's quite literally game breaking.
Its called arming your squads for every contingency. So Powerfist here and there will fix that tank, Perhaps a few other cc goodies to clear the vehicles.
In 2nd edition it was very much a standard thing to throw some 'just in case' gears on every other squad. And NOT game breaking btw
wes
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/19 02:43:31
koooaei wrote: We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
Azreal13 wrote:Ah right, just more junk for the "Traditio doesn't care about balance as long as what he likes is at the top" pile.
It's less "Traditio just wants to win" and more "Traditio desires to dance to the songs of lamentation and bathe in the tears of the power gamers who realize that their armies are now useless."
Spoken differently:
That's what you GET!
I own and use drop pods AND rhinos and I will probably continue to use both.The fragnought is still riding the pod, even if he has to spend a turn out of range.
Martel732 wrote:I own and use drop pods AND rhinos and I will probably continue to use both.The fragnought is still riding the pod, even if he has to spend a turn out of range.
It was on the sneak peak for the new FOCs. All three of the ones that they showed us have a restriction: limit 1 dedicated transport per 2 units.
It may not apply to the other 11 FOCs, but it did to all of the ones that they showed us.
Might want to reread that FOC they showed us.
It says "May include one for each other choice." not "may include one for every other choice." which is what I think you read.
They mean: "for every choice of one slot that isn't a dedicated transport, you may take a dedicated transport."
You are correct that it says "one for each other choice."
And I see the problem.
The problem here is that "other" is ambiguous.
"Other" in relationship to what? In relationship to the dedicated transports, or in relationship to the other FOC selections?
They'll either have to change the wordings or clarify in either the main rule set or an FAQ.
Now that I look at it again, it can be read either way.
Yeah definitely not super clear, it just seems a little to drastic of a change to throw into an ambiguous wording in s small graphic.
If I were a betting man I would say that it is 1 per non dedicated choice, as they seem to be pretty adamant about the fact that you can "still play your army" other than the most spammyest of spammy lists (like full drop pod, all scatbikes, 50 riptides etc.).
Yeh... they best do something about that. If not, it's quite literally game breaking.
Its called arming your squads for every contingency. So Powerfist here and there will fix that tank, Perhaps a few other cc goodies to clear the vehicles.
In 2nd edition it was very much a standard thing to throw some 'just in case' gears on every other squad. And NOT game breaking btw
wes
If you looked at my examples you would see the first one was Warp Talons. Warp Talons can't have any upgrades like powerfists. As can't a huge amount of units. I would start listing them for you but I don't want people to have to scroll for 5 minutes to get to the next comment. Not everyone is a space marine with access to a fist or an ork with access to a claw. Being able to lock any units in combat with a cheap transport vehicle is huge as you can effectively neutralise units which are far more expensive than the vehicle for multiple game turns. Especially against high cost armies who will have a lower unit count.
Now again, I'm not saying GW hasn't put anything in place to counter this. What I'm saying is that if they haven't, it most certainly does break the game.
I imagine we will see the counter for using vehicles to tie up CC units tomorrow. Imperial knights and a bunch of CC weapons are on the docket for tomorrow. From the FAQ this afternoon CC is super dangerous now, guess we will see.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
Forcast wrote:Yeah definitely not super clear, it just seems a little to drastic of a change to throw into an ambiguous wording in s small graphic.
If I were a betting man I would say that it is 1 per non dedicated choice, as they seem to be pretty adamant about the fact that you can "still play your army" other than the most spammyest of spammy lists (like full drop pod, all scatbikes, 50 riptides etc.).
I gotta say this is the first one that I'm not so excited about. Not bitter because 7th tank shock was so bad people avoided it but this seems kind of backwards.
The literal charge into enemies(who's distance should change per vehicle) should be the 'to hit'. I actually think the unit charged should be the one to roll to see how many casualties they take and no one should get stuck in combat unless they want to keep trying they're luck against a car.
...............don't you guys remember interdimensional cable 2- man vs car? "Wouldn't the car always win?"
We needed somthing to bridge MC walkers and tanks but this seems just a bit silly
Yeh... they best do something about that. If not, it's quite literally game breaking.
Its called arming your squads for every contingency. So Powerfist here and there will fix that tank, Perhaps a few other cc goodies to clear the vehicles.
In 2nd edition it was very much a standard thing to throw some 'just in case' gears on every other squad. And NOT game breaking btw
wes
If you looked at my examples you would see the first one was Warp Talons. Warp Talons can't have any upgrades like powerfists. As can't a huge amount of units. I would start listing them for you but I don't want people to have to scroll for 5 minutes to get to the next comment. Not everyone is a space marine with access to a fist or an ork with access to a claw. Being able to lock any units in combat with a cheap transport vehicle is huge as you can effectively neutralise units which are far more expensive than the vehicle for multiple game turns. Especially against high cost armies who will have a lower unit count.
Now again, I'm not saying GW hasn't put anything in place to counter this. What I'm saying is that if they haven't, it most certainly does break the game.
A rhino will at best be toughness 6-7 with a 4+ save. Your claws will be hitting on 3+, wounding on 5+ (at least) and lower the save by 2. With 2-3 attacks each you'll shred it the turn it rolls at you.
As for the chimeras/guard and the marines, a chimera wall coming forward to drive off marines in order to give breathing room to the guardsmen is perfectly fluffy and a legitimate way to utilise a tank in any game setting. Saying the chimera are charging is limiting your focus to them actively engaging in melee as opposed to simply trying to crush marines with a bulldozer blade as the marines fall back.
Yeh... they best do something about that. If not, it's quite literally game breaking.
Its called arming your squads for every contingency. So Powerfist here and there will fix that tank, Perhaps a few other cc goodies to clear the vehicles.
In 2nd edition it was very much a standard thing to throw some 'just in case' gears on every other squad. And NOT game breaking btw
wes
If you looked at my examples you would see the first one was Warp Talons. Warp Talons can't have any upgrades like powerfists. As can't a huge amount of units. I would start listing them for you but I don't want people to have to scroll for 5 minutes to get to the next comment. Not everyone is a space marine with access to a fist or an ork with access to a claw. Being able to lock any units in combat with a cheap transport vehicle is huge as you can effectively neutralise units which are far more expensive than the vehicle for multiple game turns. Especially against high cost armies who will have a lower unit count.
Now again, I'm not saying GW hasn't put anything in place to counter this. What I'm saying is that if they haven't, it most certainly does break the game.
The warp talons will likely be able to kill the Rhino in a couple of combat rounds. But even if not you can stay in until another unit can help out, maybe a melta gun squad comes over, and you move out of combat then shoot with the melta gun etc. Warp Talons in your example can also presumably jump over terrain or other units to get away. I'm sure there are certain squads where this could be an issue, but they are likely few and far between. You are looking at squads that are unable to hurt vehicles in close combat. Honestly I'm looking at the Rhino charge as a way to eat overwatch from a squad so my better unit can get in unharmed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It is also certainly better than what happens to warp talons now if a walker charges them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/19 11:25:52
Now this, with the new faq make me curious how this will turn out for csm.
Destroyer blades, assaulting from vechicles, multipe units per transport and the vehicle itself charging.
So now with one rhino, you're assaulting three units and preventing three units from shooting if nothing else where before, you drove up in front of the enemy to be shot to pieces for the same cost.
I imagine havoc launchers will now have d6 shots, the model has 6 launch bays after all and the combi bolter also got better.
I might have to get me a few more rhinos lol. They (the blades) used to be auto hitting too, so who knows, maybe they will hit better than 5+.
Also, please GW, use this opportunity to make possession god specific lol.
Which also makes no sense with the new rules. I suppose it would change the amount of remaining wounds for taking damage?
Can't wait to see how this edition will affect our tanks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/19 14:38:53
Roknar wrote: Now this, with the new faq make me curious how this will turn out for csm.
Destroyer blades, assaulting from vechicles, multipe units per transport and the vehicle itself charging.
So now with one rhino, you're assaulting three units and preventing three units from shooting if nothing else where before, you drove up in front of the enemy to be shot to pieces for the same cost.
I imagine havoc launchers will now have d6 shots, the model has 6 launch bays after all and the combi bolter also got better.
I might have to get me a few more rhinos lol. They (the blades) used to be auto hitting too, so who knows, maybe they will hit better than 5+.
Also, please GW, use this opportunity to make possession god specific lol.
Which also makes no sense with the new rules. I suppose it would change the amount of remaining wounds for taking damage?
Can't wait to see how this edition will affect our tanks.
I will say that the "forcing at least one unit to not shoot" is a pretty strong upside that a lot of people seem to be under-estimating.
To make it better, it doesn't just force a unit or three to not shoot, it forces them to spend at least one turn attacking a cheap, empty transport that they otherwise would have wanted to ignore. That's at least one turn that an assault army can use to get more units across the gap, or that a shooty army can use to focus down other units that aren't stuck-in. If a Rhino is T6, with 5-6 wounds and a decent save, it could definitely make a pretty decent distraction by charging at something that would REALLY rather be shooting at a bigger threat right now. Though since they seem to be using side armor for the basis a Rhino might be T5.
Transport-charging can potentially be a defense against an assault-heavy army too. Every turn an enemy's assault units spend either fighting or falling back from a cheap, empty transport is a turn where they're not moving up the board and not assaulting more valuable units. I think it'll be interesting to see what tactics emerge from it.
Conscripts will probably still be the preferred tarpit option for IG, but Chimeras will be able to add that to the list of things they can do and may even be a better choice against an anti-infantry unit.
Honestly, for most vehicles there is no functional difference between LD8 and LD10.
Most vehicles are either single-model units or in squadrons of three or less. A LD8 squadron of three literally cannot take enough casualties to fail a morale check: they'd have to lose three models to do that, and then there'd be no unit left to make the check.
Vehicles generally aren't psykers either, so vehicles will generally never roll against their leadership stat unless they're the target of a Psychic Shriek or something like that.
