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I think the official genre name for 20 000 lieux sous les mers is not steampunk but… fish species lists? Like, for real, just so many lists!

Original Victorian Science Fiction a la Frankenstein isn't steampunk; if anything, it's ur-steampunk

 Manchu wrote:
I think the idea is, this dehumanization is systemically linked to technology. It’s not as if evil arrived with the computer.

Sure, but there aren't that many people going around smashing cotton gins.

Cyberpunk resonates in a way that steampunk probably can't, it directly deals with concerns lots of people have right now.

 Manchu wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
But the politics in this case are critical of dehumanizing corporate greed. I think this is why steampunk seems such a natural analog to cyberpunk. There is a strong parallel between the excesses of the Gilded Age and the mega-corp dominated future.

But that's a key disconnect. Cyberpunk is is now and forward, but steampunk is back in the day: it's a nice thought but it really doesn't matter.

I think the idea is, this dehumanization is systemically linked to technology. It’s not as if evil arrived with the computer.

I agree with that.

Steampunk requires us to imagine that Jules Verne's novels were historical, not science fictional of their time. From that angle, Steampunk isn't futuristic, and perhaps it shouldn't count as SF.

This doesn't address the "punk" angle of course, but I feel that is merely a nod to the earlier success of cyberpunk. The really significant trends in early 21st century SF have been the emergence of dark urban, and the resurgence of space opera in a modern, high-tech guise.

Steampunk actually exists as much as a cosplay format as a genre of literature. It ties into the "Chap" movement which itself is a broadening of "New Fogeyism".

I wouldn't class Perdido Street Station as Steampunk. it's "new weird." But this in itself helps to demonstrate the difficulty of identifying Steampunk.

Anyway, we live in a age where the SF shelves of bookshops routinely contain a mixture of actual SF and fantasy (i.e. sword and sorcery) so do these classifications matter?

I'd say given the laxity of book store shelves it matters even more. Sometimes I'm happy to read something that wasn't quite what I expected, but sometimes I want to get exactly what I sodding expected to get(a sentiment in which I doubt very much I am alone) and an at least moderately accurate structure of genres and subgenres is necessary for that to happen.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Steampunk actually exists as much as a cosplay format as a genre of literature. It ties into the "Chap" movement which itself is a broadening of "New Fogeyism".

I wouldn't class Perdido Street Station as Steampunk. it's "new weird." But this in itself helps to demonstrate the difficulty of identifying Steampunk.

Steam is pretty easy to identify from a cosplay standpoint:
[_] gears?
[_] goggles?
If both checked = "steampunk"

Shouldn't we take the discussion of what is or is not steampunk, cyberpunk, dieselpunk, or anythingelsepunk into its own thread and keep this one talking about Mortal Engines?

On that note, I saw it today and I actually enjoyed it a lot. Of course, I've never read the books so maybe that's why. The whole ridiculousness of the setting actually made it enjoyable on a certain level. While it's hardly a masterpiece, I think it's an okay movie, especially if you like epic imagery like whole cities moving around on wheels/tracks/whatever.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
While it's hardly a masterpiece, I think it's an okay movie, especially if you like epic imagery like whole cities moving around on wheels/tracks/whatever.

Did you watch Snowpiercer? City on rails