d-usa wrote:
We have the Nextdoor app to do our community policing for us here. It’s always an entertaining clusterfeth to read the posts and conversations on there.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

I'm not trying to say Zimmerman isn't somewhat to blame for this incident. He does carry some of the blame. Personally, I feel this was a situation where bad circumstances (Martin was an unknown person acting weird in a gated community and fit the description of burglars hitting the area), forced two donkey caves with chips on their shoulders together. One had a gun.

What description, young man in hoodie? How many people would fit such descriptions. A few years ago half of the friends I had could fit the hoodie description. How did Zimmerman know he didn't live there etc etc. Zimmerman playing wannabe batman is the donkey cave for going out with a gun looking for trouble in the first place. He could have waited for the police. Its a wonder his personality hasn't led him to even more trouble by now.

Prestor Jon wrote:
Short of needing to save somebody being victimized by a crime in progress it's always better to let the police handle things. The liability you take on for inserting yourself in a situation you don't need to be involved in isn't worth it. Zimmerman has brought a lot of trouble on himself because of doing this which is highlighted by this most recent example. If you feel you are being harassed by a PI or anyone, you should document the harassment and call the police and inform them of the harassment. Making threats and trying to take matters into your own hands is never a good idea it just makes things more difficult for yourself.

I've spoken about this with my wife often because every spring/summer we tend to get suspicious people coming through our neighborhood looking to get hired to do yardwork, frequently they don't have business cards or equipment and a penchant for walking around a house and looking in the windows to see if anyone is home instead of ringing the doorbell. I tell me wife to please call the police if anyone makes her suspicious and to never confront anyone herself. If you confront somebody who is up to no good you put yourself in a very vulnerable situation and if you confront somebody who isn't dangerous there's still no benefit to yourself. The risk isn't worth it.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

I'm not trying to say Zimmerman isn't somewhat to blame for this incident. He does carry some of the blame. Personally, I feel this was a situation where bad circumstances (Martin was an unknown person acting weird in a gated community and fit the description of burglars hitting the area), forced two donkey caves with chips on their shoulders together. One had a gun.

What description, young man in hoodie? How many people would fit such descriptions. A few years ago half of the friends I had could fit the hoodie description. How did Zimmerman know he didn't live there etc etc. Zimmerman playing wannabe batman is the donkey cave for going out with a gun looking for trouble in the first place. He could have waited for the police. Its a wonder his personality hasn't led him to even more trouble by now.

There was more to the description than "guy in a hoodie". Young black male, not of the neighborhood, occurring at night. Add to that that Zimmerman saw him jump a security fence to gain access to the neighborhood, saw him ducking between houses, and thought he was looking in windows. Yeah, that would make me suspicious too.

 cuda1179 wrote:

And to answer your question, young, black, and male in and of itself all ready puts things into the 2% of the population. Factoring in that this was a fairly high end neighborhood, it likely drops well below that.

Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's, I don't know, he was just staring...
Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...
Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Nice to see you omitted his statement to police that stated he saw him jumping the fence. It's pretty common knowledge.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Nice to see you omitted his statement to police that stated he saw him jumping the fence. It's pretty common knowledge.

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...
Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's, I don't know, he was just staring...
Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...
Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.
Dispatcher: Okay...
Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?
Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse...
Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the – he's near the clubhouse right now?
Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.
Dispatcher: Okay.
Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.
Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.
Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.
Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman: Okay. These donkey-caves, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.
Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. gak, he's running [background noises, possibly car door open warning chimes, heard].
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance...fething [disputed/unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Okay.
Dispatcher: All right, sir, what is your name?
Zimmerman: George...He ran.
Dispatcher: All right, George, what's your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman.
Dispatcher: And George, what's the phone number you're calling from?
Zimmerman: [redacted]
Dispatcher: All right, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don't know. It's a cut through so I don't know the address.
Dispatcher: Okay. Do you live in the area?
Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It's a home. It's 1950, Oh, crap. I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: Okay. Do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
Zimmerman: Yeah, that's fine.
Dispatcher: All right, George. I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?
Zimmerman: Actually, could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?
Dispatcher: Okay, yeah. That's no problem.
Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah, I got it [redacted]
Zimmerman: Yeah, you got it.
Dispatcher: Okay. No problem. I'll let them know to call you when they're in the area.
Zimmerman: Thanks.
Dispatcher: You're welcome.

 cuda1179 wrote:
So, because he didn't mention something on a 911 call it didn't happen? I'm sure he had nothing else going on at the moment and was completely calm and relaxed....??

 d-usa wrote:
I could use a bridge. Did a guy kill anyone on it?

 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

Well yeah, because it's extremely likely that is why the 911 call was made.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

Well yeah, because it's extremely likely that is why the 911 call was made.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
I feel like a more apt comparison would be Zimmerman being a dog trying to put hands in its own mouth by the amount of gak he manages to involve himself in.

Also, as much as who wants him to be?

 cuda1179 wrote:
Forgive me for misinterpreting your " its because he' Black" comment.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Believe it or not, I was young once too. The quickest route from the local basketball court was through a neighbor's yard. This was some I knew personally, heck I mowed their yard. A couple time during a late night return I sparked a 911 call. Innocent mistake, but I understand the concern.

Zimmerman calling the cops I have no problem with. After that things get hazy. If Zimmerman approached martin and assaulted him, yes I would agree it was his fault. However, if Zimmerman was in fact walking back to his truck when Martin assaulted him, then at least a majority of the blame was on Martin. None of us really know what happened.

cuda1179 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

Well yeah, because it's extremely likely that is why the 911 call was made.

Noticing a suspicious person that fits the physical description of a suspected burglar isn't "making it about race".

Xenomancers wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

Well yeah, because it's extremely likely that is why the 911 call was made.

Again - this case has already been acquitted. Why though is race extremely likely to be the reason he thought Martin was suspicious?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
I feel like a more apt comparison would be Zimmerman being a dog trying to put hands in its own mouth by the amount of gak he manages to involve himself in.

Also, as much as who wants him to be?

These guys sought him out. Knowing full well it could and probably would come to something like this.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Forgive me for misinterpreting your " its because he' Black" comment.

You didn't. When you say 2% this and wealthy neighbourhood that, it does come across as he was suspicious because as a black young man he didn't belong there. That was my point.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Believe it or not, I was young once too. The quickest route from the local basketball court was through a neighbor's yard. This was some I knew personally, heck I mowed their yard. A couple time during a late night return I sparked a 911 call. Innocent mistake, but I understand the concern.

Zimmerman calling the cops I have no problem with. After that things get hazy. If Zimmerman approached martin and assaulted him, yes I would agree it was his fault. However, if Zimmerman was in fact walking back to his truck when Martin assaulted him, then at least a majority of the blame was on Martin. None of us really know what happened.

Exactly, we will never know. But fact of the matter is people lie to avoid prison. The legal system did what it could with the information it had and that is how it works, but a man who had done nothing wrong up until that point died. We're not going to hold another trial, but I'm also not going to believe a word batman says without some extra evidence.

 cuda1179 wrote:
He mentioned Martin's race when asked. Truthfully, in the dark, when raining, from a distance, I could easily see Martin described as possibly mixed, Puerto Rican, or even Indian.

People also tell the truth to avoid prison. You seem to state Martin had "done nothing wrong" as some kind of fact. Getting on top of someone and beating them is definitely wrong.