When does Chapter Approved 2018 come out and what needs or wants to be buffed?

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**Sinful Hero**

Audustum wrote:
I like how most the CP changes in this thread just screw over elite armies, particularly Custodes, with nary a care from the proposers.

Anyway, the changes I think they should make are like 20 pages long. The big issues are fixing Grey Knights, keeping allies in and flexible and increasing CP generation of elite armies.

Are you talking about the “only the CP the detachment made can be spent on it”? Elite armies seem to have better strategems while having access to fewer CP- seems to be a matter of balance by design. Fewer CP for better strategems.

And Grey Knights had their fun in 5th. Justice has finally been served for my exploding Hive Tyrants.

**U02dah4**

Audustum wrote:
I like how most the CP changes in this thread just screw over elite armies, particularly Custodes, with nary a care from the proposers.

Anyway, the changes I think they should make are like 20 pages long. The big issues are fixing Grey Knights, keeping allies in and flexible and increasing CP generation of elite armies.

No i believe thats the point

**jcd386**

Galas wrote:
vipoid wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:
- Plasma only cooks off on a natural roll of a 1, but always does the mortal wound BEFORE the reroll.

No. Just no.

All people that propose that just doesn't understand, that change would kill plasma for anybody that wasnt Imperial Guard. Chaos Terminator or Marines exploding 16% of the time they are overcharging is just non viable.

I disagree. First of all, the suggested change is (as far as i know) something like: "When overcharging, change damage to S8 D2, but on a natural roll of 1 to hit with this weapon, cause a mortal wound once all of the shots have been resolved. Re-rolls can still be rolled, and any successful results resolved, but mortal wounds are still taken. A 1 that has been re-rolled does not cause additional mortal wounds on a second roll of a 1."

So it would take a terminator or biker 2 fails to die. This is pretty unlikely in a single turn (1/36 i believe).
A razorback or any other vehicle would take a MW and keep going.
Characters would be able to keep on going with just a MW.

Marines, guard, and other models would die 1/6 of the time, but only because they choose to more than double the damage output of the weapon they are firing.

With it's normal profile, the plasma gun is pretty good at killing infantry and can even damage light vehicles decently. It's not a bad gun.

Being able to overcharge it to wound most tanks on a 3+ and cause double damage should either cost more initially or be dangerous. If you want to do this kind of damage consistently, you should have to mount the plasma on something more durable, or go with melta.

**Mandragola**

jcd386 wrote:
Galas wrote:
vipoid wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:
- Plasma only cooks off on a natural roll of a 1, but always does the mortal wound BEFORE the reroll.

No. Just no.

All people that propose that just doesn't understand, that change would kill plasma for anybody that wasnt Imperial Guard. Chaos Terminator or Marines exploding 16% of the time they are overcharging is just non viable.

I disagree. First of all, the suggested change is (as far as i know) something like: "When overcharging, change damage to S8 D2, but on a natural roll of 1 to hit with this weapon, cause a mortal wound once all of the shots have been resolved. Re-rolls can still be rolled, and any successful results resolved, but mortal wounds are still taken. A 1 that has been re-rolled does not cause additional mortal wounds on a second roll of a 1."

So it would take a terminator or biker 2 fails to die. This is pretty unlikely in a single turn (1/36 i believe).
A razorback or any other vehicle would take a MW and keep going.
Characters would be able to keep on going with just a MW.

Marines, guard, and other models would die 1/6 of the time, but only because they choose to more than double the damage output of the weapon they are firing.

With it's normal profile, the plasma gun is pretty good at killing infantry and can even damage light vehicles decently. It's not a bad gun.

Being able to overcharge it to wound most tanks on a 3+ and cause double damage should either cost more initially or be dangerous. If you want to do this kind of damage consistently, you should have to mount the plasma on something more durable, or go with melta.

I was actually thinking about the exact same change.

Your gun shouldn’t explode more often if you fire it at Eldar, or less often if you’re stood near a captain. And it would make plasma spam much less of a thing.

If anyone should help make plasma guns not blow up its tech priests/marines. They could have a feature to oversee plasma guns rather than repair a vehicle.

**SHUPPET**

Wyldhunt wrote:
phydaux wrote:
I for one find it ridiculous that I have to manage Warlord Traits, Chapter Traits, Command Points, and Stratagems. It's like a bunch of people at GW were throwing out ideas in a meeting, trying to decide what game mechanic they were going to do with, when someone wearing a big hat said "Screw it, it's late. We'll use ALL the ideas. Just as long as the Force Org chart gets thrown out the window."

Those are all some of my favorite things about 8th edition XD

To me, those are the options that let you represent the flavor of your army mechanically. Choosing traits, tactics, etc. feels the same way choosing abilities for an RPG character does. Sure, you could represent your force through unit or weapon selection before, but that usually just boiled down to, "My faction is the <insert unit here> faction."

Personally, I don't feel like I have to "manage" traits or tactics most of the time. Generally, it's just a matter of remembering which easy-to-resolve modifier or ability I have. Alaitoc attribute? You'r eat -1 to hit me if you're not up close. Red Grief warlord trait? I save on a 3+ instead of a 4+. A I choose which of those options I take during list creation, I find them no more difficult to manage than remembering which gear I gave a sergeant or which combat drugs my wyches have.

I agree! the game is finally taking a direction that rewards skill, and gives many levels of customization. And also agree with not having to manage traits of tactics, you just sort of pick em in list building and it's always there...

Some people want the game dumbed down to something really mindless I guess

**vipoid**

Galas wrote:
vipoid wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:
- Plasma only cooks off on a natural roll of a 1, but always does the mortal wound BEFORE the reroll.

No. Just no.

All people that propose that just doesn't understand, that change would kill plasma for anybody that wasnt Imperial Guard. Chaos Terminator or Marines exploding 16% of the time they are overcharging is just non viable.

It's not just that - the suggestion goes against the entire concept of a reroll. When you reroll a dice, the original roll is discounted. For all intents and purposes, it never happened.

If the original dice is still having an effect, then you demonstrably have not rerolled it.

You'd be better off just saying 'When firing a plasmagun, you can't reroll unmodified to-hit rolls of 1 for any reason'. Still a terrible idea, but at least it doesn't put several shotgun rounds through a core game mechanic.

**greyknight12**

Audustum wrote:
I like how most the CP changes in this thread just screw over elite armies, particularly Custodes, with nary a care from the proposers.

Anyway, the changes I think they should make are like 20 pages long. The big issues are fixing Grey Knights, keeping allies in and flexible and increasing CP generation of elite armies.

It only screws over armies if strategems are either immensely powerful or required for an army to function. They should be neither of those things. And even if they are, then you can reduce the CP cost of “elite” strategems since now you can guarantee they won’t be used as much.

The issue we have right now is the return of the 7th ed “psychic battery”, only with command points instead of warp charges.

**MrMoustaffa**

vipoid wrote:
Galas wrote:
vipoid wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:
- Plasma only cooks off on a natural roll of a 1, but always does the mortal wound BEFORE the reroll.

No. Just no.

All people that propose that just doesn't understand, that change would kill plasma for anybody that wasnt Imperial Guard. Chaos Terminator or Marines exploding 16% of the time they are overcharging is just non viable.

It's not just that - the suggestion goes against the entire concept of a reroll. When you reroll a dice, the original roll is discounted. For all intents and purposes, it never happened.

If the original dice is still having an effect, then you demonstrably have not rerolled it.

You'd be better off just saying 'When firing a plasmagun, you can't reroll unmodified to-hit rolls of 1 for any reason'. Still a terrible idea, but at least it doesn't put several shotgun rounds through a core game mechanic.

The problem is unless you completely change the profile of plasma it's about the only way to give it a downside that actually matters.

And since 8th is "all rerolls all the time" it basically means plasma's downside only matters 1/36th of the time. Unless you face craft world Altaoic, where suddenly plasma is basically just committing suicide every time you fire it. Which is really dumb. It needs an actual downside that isn't completely ignored by almost every army that has access to it through either +1 Bs abilities or reroll 1 abilities. Until plasma gets that downside, there's no point to melta when the plasma is more reliable in almost every situation.

**Nightlord1987**

Well, I'm hoping something similar to the Devastating Reach stratagem for IK that allows them to reach CC in Ruins from 3-6 inches from the base becomes a Universal Stratagem for all armies MCs.

Or better yet, improve the Ruins rules to include diagonal distance.

Then, as a wishlist, something to further penalize Falling Back. Take some Mortal Wounds to represent turning your back on the enemy and retreating, or offering protection for the enemy unit you just ran from: a negative to hit modifier representing troops trying to prevent friendly fire. Hell, even if it had to be a roll off type thing or cost cp or something...

Im glad sweeping advance is gone from the game, but it made sense. Retreating is a risky thing.

Idk, maybe because I play against alot of Tau and UM armies.

**Wolf_in_Human_Shape**

andysonic1 wrote:
DreamIsCollapsing wrote:
For CSM :
- Remove the "Legion" keyworld" for cultist, but make a rule that they dont remove the Legion bonus of a detachment (like Cypher and Fabius Bile).
So remove Cultists from the meta entirely? Seems a little overkill after the Tide nerf.

- Kyribdis needs a point drop; whoever thought it needed to be the same cost as a Land Raider doesn't understand what a Land Raider brings to the table beyond the metal hawks part of it.
- Blood Slaughterers and Maulerfiends need a very slight point drop as well. When a double chainclaw Contemptor is 163 points and a Blood Slaughterer is 180 points something is wrong. I feel like they kind of understand this, hence the Contemptor point drop in the first place, but they need to keep going. Dedicated melee units across the board need point reductions.
- Hellwrights should buff Daemon Engines in addition to Hellforged units they already buff.
- Zhufor needs to buff World Eaters. He's a great unit but the fact his aura is selfish pushes me away.
- Fix the PL of all the FW units. No idea why this wasn't addressed last CA. It's annoying me I can't deep strike Uraka for 1 CP because his PL is still 9.
- For the love of all that is holy please buff Renegades and Heretics in some way shape or form. Give us Stratagems and relics. Give us unique characters. Give us SOMETHING to make taking them worth SOMETHING. Right now it's just a complete waste of points.
- Possessed need a point drop. I think their stats are fine though if they were Toughness 5 I'd be fine with their current point cost and they'd have a role as shock troops.
- Chosen need a role. I'm fine with their points just give them some kind of special rule or something to make them unique. Maybe something like, "Declare an Ally Character of the same Legion at the start of the game. As long as the Chosen unit is within 6 inches of that Character, they have a 5++." Suddenly Chosen are the elite bodyguards they've always wanted to be.
- Further reduce the point cost of Kharn OR increase his movement speed. He should not cost as much as a Daemon Prince. Also give Kharn back his increased psykic defense.
- More Stratagems, Relics, Powers, and special rules for the legions without codex releases.
- Quality of life change like more CP if your army is mono-god would also help a lot.

I agree with all of these, can’t add much to what you’ve said about them. Renegades & Heretics being the most pathetic currently, I expect the least in general for any of the FW units in the forthcoming CA. I think rewriting an entire army list (or creating everything necessary to flesh them into a proper one) is so beyond a realistic expectation that I won’t hold my breath,

Revisit index-only units, Renegade knight point adjustments and token traits/stratagems the way Necrons were treated in the first CA.

Point drop for units like the Lord on Juggernaut to be in line with the codex-adjusted points. Also, give them legion traits, For Khorne’s sake, cultists get the legion bonus but a chaos lord doesn’t because he’s on a bike or a juggernaut?

As mentioned by someone earlier, please buff the poor Word Bearers. Let them move and summon. SOMETHING, Whatever it is, just make it good.

**orchewer**

Renegade Knights "So Simple It's Silly List":
- Point adjustment in line with Imperial Knight Counterparts
- Gain <Legion>

Renegade Knights "Wish List":
- Gain "Death to the False Emperor"

**Crazyterran**

Knights shouldnt be part of a Legion.

They should get an equivalent to Household rules, but perhaps give them DttFE instead of Legion rules.