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grey knights might be able to struggle on if you build their most compeitive build but I suspect a lot of people run a GKT heavy army and compound their problems. I mean one of the big draws about GKs is "terminator troops!"

Even though it may not be competitive, it is surprising there isn’t a GK Start Collecting box. Was there one and it was dropped or did it never exist?

What would folks suggest be in it? I’m thinking something like a strike squad, Nemesis Dreadknight and Voldus

 Stormonu wrote:
Even though it may not be competitive, it is surprising there isn’t a GK Start Collecting box. Was there one and it was dropped or did it never exist?

What would folks suggest be in it? I’m thinking something like a strike squad, Nemesis Dreadknight and Voldus

A letter of apology and a voucher for the value of the box to buy a start collecting box for a playable army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ValentineGames wrote:

Absolute nonsense.
If you want to play 40k with just the Start Collecting box you most assuredly can and it should be encouraged.
You don't tell little jonny "oh sorry loser. You've not spent the minimum amount required to play this game.
Come back when you're not a loser. Hahahaha"

What a disgusting attitude. No wonder this games dead.

You don't think that they don't get the feel bads aswell when they realise that their brand new and quite expensive new army is so much weaker.
Yes you can tone down some factions with some unit swaps, or not doing the aura conga chains like you would in a more competitive game.
But at a certain point it starts to become blatantly obvious that your throwing the game to keep it close.
Also if you brought along you 2nd or 3rd army you probably don't have as many weak unit's to be able to blance the game.

Also if its a club night or such they may well have already seen you play and then its even more obvious your going easy on them.

Ice_can wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Even though it may not be competitive, it is surprising there isn’t a GK Start Collecting box. Was there one and it was dropped or did it never exist?

What would folks suggest be in it? I’m thinking something like a strike squad, Nemesis Dreadknight and Voldus

A letter of apology and a voucher for the value of the box to buy a start collecting box for a playable army.

Geez, just tell me where the bad man touched you.

Seriously, what models would you expect to see in a GK Start Collecting?

Problem with GK is that there's no plastic character other than Voldus and the other sets don't have an SC.

If they brought out a plastic captain then captain+dreadknight+strike squad wouldn't be terrible.

Dreadknight+strike squad+terminators is probably too much for a start collecting.

I think the strike squad, dreadknight/venerable dreadnought and voldus/new generic plastic HQ. Is the only option available to them.

Troop. HQ and big model.

Hey another thread that’s now about why (fancy) Space Marines suck.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Problem with GK is that there's no plastic character other than Voldus and the other sets don't have an SC.

If they brought out a plastic captain then captain+dreadknight+strike squad wouldn't be terrible.

Dreadknight+strike squad+terminators is probably too much for a start collecting.

they could go with a terminator Librarian, a strike squad and terminators

BrianDavion wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Problem with GK is that there's no plastic character other than Voldus and the other sets don't have an SC.

If they brought out a plastic captain then captain+dreadknight+strike squad wouldn't be terrible.

Dreadknight+strike squad+terminators is probably too much for a start collecting.

they could go with a terminator Librarian, a strike squad and terminators

What you did there, I see it.

I've been thinking about starting Nids recently actually, but the Start Collecting is putting me off a bit...

It's an example of one of those that is great value on paper, but actually kind of awkward and not the best starting point unless you want to go down a very specific kind of list build.

Trygons are cool sure, but the guy makes up the bulk of the value of the kit and is not really that important to a new Tyranid player. Likewise, the Broodlord and Genestealers seem to be good units sure, but Stealers aren't really core Nids in my opinion. They are sort of the Tempestus Scions to Imperial Guard as it were.

Just a weird selection of units in my opinion!

A perfect box to start out for me would probably be:

Hive Tyrant
Gaunts (1 of either Horma or Terma)
Hive/Tyrant Guard

Or maybe

Hive Tyrant
Carnofex
Termagants
Hormagaunts

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Problem with GK is that there's no plastic character other than Voldus and the other sets don't have an SC.

If they brought out a plastic captain then captain+dreadknight+strike squad wouldn't be terrible.

Dreadknight+strike squad+terminators is probably too much for a start collecting.

Dreadknights can be used to make Grandmasters now, right?

I'd expect Dreadknight+5 model Strike Squad+Terminators if they were looking to cut corners.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Problem with GK is that there's no plastic character other than Voldus and the other sets don't have an SC.

If they brought out a plastic captain then captain+dreadknight+strike squad wouldn't be terrible.

Dreadknight+strike squad+terminators is probably too much for a start collecting.

they could go with a terminator Librarian, a strike squad and terminators

What you did there, I see it.

actually that was legit, the terminator Libby model is pretty much the only plastic generic HQ choice GKs have, and a strike squad plus termies would be most versitle in what they give you, giving you eaither a strike squad, interceptor squar or purifier squad, and a GK terminator squad or paladin squad. since my gut feeling is they'd not want a dreadnought as the space marine start collecting box has that, and the other GK options are simply too big/expensive that strikes me as simply the most logical mix of kits.

That said What GKs really need right now it just a complete codex re-write not a SC box

Process wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
It's really customer friendly eh to sell them stuff that they soon realize they don't want to field. Wasted money. Good customer service selling them useless junk.

If i collected guard or Tau i would field both Leman Russ and crisis suits. How is anything in a SC useless junk?

If you played tau you would soon learn to avoid crisis suit like plague. Those are newbie traps. Total crap unit that's seriously overpriced.

Oh and commissar from IG box might just as well be thrown to garbage bin for use it has. Even with change in FAQ it's still bad option.

tneva82 wrote:

Process wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
It's really customer friendly eh to sell them stuff that they soon realize they don't want to field. Wasted money. Good customer service selling them useless junk.

If i collected guard or Tau i would field both Leman Russ and crisis suits. How is anything in a SC useless junk?

If you played tau you would soon learn to avoid crisis suit like plague. Those are newbie traps. Total crap unit that's seriously overpriced.

Oh and commissar from IG box might just as well be thrown to garbage bin for use it has. Even with change in FAQ it's still bad option.

*rolls eyes*
Yeah ok we get. Everything sucks all the time

He's kind of right on Crisis. If you have new people playing 1k ishgames based on starter sets, the Tau player gets seriously outclassed if they run Crisis.

They aren't useless though! You can run them as XV8 Commanders.

Stux wrote:
He's kind of right on Crisis. If you have new people playing 1k ishgames based on starter sets, the Tau player gets seriously outclassed if they run Crisis.

They aren't useless though! You can run them as XV8 Commanders.

Thank god commander spam is gone then

ValentineGames wrote:

Stux wrote:
He's kind of right on Crisis. If you have new people playing 1k ishgames based on starter sets, the Tau player gets seriously outclassed if they run Crisis.

They aren't useless though! You can run them as XV8 Commanders.

Thank god commander spam is gone then

For sure! But it's still good to have one immediately if this box is your first purchase

ValentineGames wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Process wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
It's really customer friendly eh to sell them stuff that they soon realize they don't want to field. Wasted money. Good customer service selling them useless junk.

If i collected guard or Tau i would field both Leman Russ and crisis suits. How is anything in a SC useless junk?

If you played tau you would soon learn to avoid crisis suit like plague. Those are newbie traps. Total crap unit that's seriously overpriced.

Oh and commissar from IG box might just as well be thrown to garbage bin for use it has. Even with change in FAQ it's still bad option.

*rolls eyes*
Yeah ok we get. Everything sucks all the time

if another unit is 0.33% more effective for the points, the other units are a hot mess and suck. one of the rules of Dakkadakka

ValentineGames wrote:

Stux wrote:
He's kind of right on Crisis. If you have new people playing 1k ishgames based on starter sets, the Tau player gets seriously outclassed if they run Crisis.

They aren't useless though! You can run them as XV8 Commanders.

Thank god commander spam is gone then

...in Matched Play, Battleforged Armies. I realize that's what people tend to shoot for, but it's not a great metric for starting players.

That said, SC Tau can also be built as 2 Patrol Detachments straight out of the box, so you have 2 Commanders and 1 spare Crisis Suit not being used. Depending on your group, you could proxy Crisis Suits as HYMP Broadsides - give them the Iridium Armor front plate, stack up the missile pods and give it twin plasma.

Interesting topic here -- I would've only thought of the Start Collecting boxes in terms of the cash saved against buying individual kits, not really taking into account the competitive value of the miniatures. It kinda adds an element of speculation to how much value for money the SC boxes are, since the competitive value of the units in the boxes will fluctuate with FAQs, Chapter Approved and other meta changes, etc.

 nurgle5 wrote:
Interesting topic here -- I would've only thought of the Start Collecting boxes in terms of the cash saved against buying individual kits, not really taking into account the competitive value of the miniatures. It kinda adds an element of speculation to how much value for money the SC boxes are, since the competitive value of the units in the boxes will fluctuate with FAQs, Chapter Approved and other meta changes, etc.

Yeah, I honestly think that the competitive value of the units is a bigger factor than the cost savings. Scions might be the best SC box of all, because it's a huge cost savings and if you're building a Tempestus Scions army, the units aren't subject to rule of 3 (troops and dedicated transports) and they're units you'd be willing to spam anyways, aside from the Commissar. Given how expensive Scions are by themselves, you might as well just buy the SC for the Scions and use the extra Taurox for other AM units like Bullgryns.

The Start Collecting Blood Angels Box is a bad box.

10 man Tactical Squad is mediocre. Nobody takes Tacticals. You could however, paint them as Sternguard Veterans.

1 Terminator Captain with Storm Bolter and Thunderhammer. Not really usefull now that BA players take the Angel Wing + TH + Storm Shield captain.

Baal Predator is an iffy choice. 24 " inch range on 12 Shot Twin Linked Assault cannon, + 36 inch bolter sponsons or 8 inch flamers on main and sponsons. you could go on ebay and try to get the predator autocanon/lascannon or try to turn the Predator into a razorback.

Stux wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:

Stux wrote:
He's kind of right on Crisis. If you have new people playing 1k ishgames based on starter sets, the Tau player gets seriously outclassed if they run Crisis.

They aren't useless though! You can run them as XV8 Commanders.

Thank god commander spam is gone then

For sure! But it's still good to have one immediately if this box is your first purchase

And people are ok that instead of buying high cost single models that they have to buy, someone just picks a proxy model that has different size and load outs? I ain't sure that happens very often.

I recently got back in to 40k, and I started with a DI box and converted my Primaris to Deathwatch. I then bought the Deathwatch SC box and I'm happy with what I got. Came with Artemis, 10 Vets and a Ven Dread (and a DW upgrade sprue). Pricing everything out individually, the Dread is essentially free.

All together, the SC provided some nice flexibility for the army I'm building.

I'm not sure how the SC would do as a stand alone option (probably not well) but it was a great way to flesh things out for me and the value was worth it IMO.

I don't know how the other SC are, but they really seem to follow the theme of their name -- in that it's a way to start, but you'll need to get some additional items for a more balanced/complete list.

In the end, IMO -- get what you think you will like and build on it over time!

Karol wrote:

And people are ok that instead of buying high cost single models that they have to buy, someone just picks a proxy model that has different size and load outs? I ain't sure that happens very often.

There are three different commanders - one is wearing XV8 armour the same as regular crisis suits and you can give them correct loadout.

The taller commanders are XV85 and XV86 and they have different datasheets.

Karol wrote:

Stux wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:

Stux wrote:
He's kind of right on Crisis. If you have new people playing 1k ishgames based on starter sets, the Tau player gets seriously outclassed if they run Crisis.

They aren't useless though! You can run them as XV8 Commanders.

Thank god commander spam is gone then

For sure! But it's still good to have one immediately if this box is your first purchase

And people are ok that instead of buying high cost single models that they have to buy, someone just picks a proxy model that has different size and load outs? I ain't sure that happens very often.

Is there that much of a size difference between the commander and a regular XV8 suit? Plenty of people are ok with non-WYSIWYG in terms of wargear, unless youre in a tournament or something.

A commander wearing XV8 armour (for which there is a datasheet) is exactly the same as a crisis suit.

The new XV85 Enforcer armour is a lot taller - about 50% taller.

JMAvariant wrote:

Nobody takes Tacticals.

Wrong

Karol wrote:

Stux wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:

Stux wrote:
He's kind of right on Crisis. If you have new people playing 1k ishgames based on starter sets, the Tau player gets seriously outclassed if they run Crisis.

They aren't useless though! You can run them as XV8 Commanders.

Thank god commander spam is gone then

For sure! But it's still good to have one immediately if this box is your first purchase

And people are ok that instead of buying high cost single models that they have to buy, someone just picks a proxy model that has different size and load outs? I ain't sure that happens very often.

For the longest time, Broadsides were just Crisis suits with metal rail guns glued to the back, and commanders were just Crisis suits with maybe a different head option. Just because GW wants to put out a new model doesn’t mean the old models are invalid, nor should subbing the new suits if you want them to represent commanders/broadsides if you can tweak them to look like they have the right loadout.

Wow, how many people don't know that a commander in a regular crisis suit has its own datasheet?