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Back in about 2000’ I had a tornado with typhoon launchers, could be used either or but not both

I currently have both the 2nd ed tornado and a 3rd ed with metal AC and cargo for balance

What edition allowed double of one weapon option?

One reason to take the Heavy Bolter is to pair it with the Typhoon Missile Launcher. That gives the Land Speeder two long range weapons, so it's better at hanging out in the backfield, benefiting from buff auras and trying to not get shot. Speeders are rather fragile, but operating as a unit works to their advantage when to comes to utilizing the command abilities of Captains and Lieutenants, as you only have to keep one Speeder within range of the character.

If you want to magnetize the weapons it's easy enough to do (except for the missile launcher).

 Rybrook wrote:
Back in about 2000’ I had a tornado with typhoon launchers, could be used either or but not both

I currently have both the 2nd ed tornado and a 3rd ed with metal AC and cargo for balance

What edition allowed double of one weapon option?

6th, 7th and Index 8th afaik. Possibly 5th but I don't recall. At some point you could do double Multi-melta, which was neat.

So I was wrong earlier, I didn't think about the index options for a Land Speeder. In 8th edition that leaves you with:

Weapon 1: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta
Weapon 2: HB, HF, MM, Assault Cannon, Typhoon Missiles

So you can still take two flamers, or two meltas if you really want.

This post is now by far the most thought I've put into a Land Speeder this edition.

If they could still deep strike I would consider them much more favorable.

 Insectum7 wrote:
If they could still deep strike I would consider them much more favorable.

They also could have had some rule that make them ignore the -1 to hit for moving with heavy weapons. I know that shouldn't be handed out too much (especially since Eldar, the masters of anti-grav tech do not have it) but it just seems lame for a unit that is clearly meant to move has to pretty much act like a Dread and sit still to shoot.

That could have been their "Grav Up-wash" rule instead of the 20" move. 3 LS moving around without to hit penalties for that movement might have been appealing.
Oh well.

I think mine will do fine as it's in a small list with 1 Razorback, 1 Ven Dread, some Marines and a Capt on bike, vs similarly simplified Highlander style lists.
The LS might either be ignored while the enemy list guns for the RB and/or Dread, or it could take some firepower off those 2. Plus it rounds out my "classic" Marine units collection. Win-win!

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 Galef wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
If they could still deep strike I would consider them much more favorable.

They also could have had some rule that make them ignore the -1 to hit for moving with heavy weapons. I know that shouldn't be handed out too much (especially since Eldar, the masters of anti-grav tech do not have it) but it just seems lame for a unit that is clearly meant to move has to pretty much act like a Dread and sit still to shoot.

That could have been their "Grav Up-wash" rule instead of the +4" move. 3 LS moving around without to hit penalties for that movement might have been appealing.

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Yeah this is true. Though moving and shooting from a vehicle seems like something that shouldn't require eldar tech. The eldar should just be able to move much faster and still be accurate.

Kinda feel like all vehicles should all ignore this penalty for moving and shooting. Maybe they should loss the ability to split fire when they do this though. Unless they have a special ability (that things like POTMS and Eldar type techs should allow)

Even though it doesn't always make sense, I do appreciate the simplicity of 90% of units being able to move and shoot with Heavy weapons at -1 to hit.
It is better than prior editions in which Infantry couldn't move at all, and vehicles were never affected by moving.
Having it work the same for everything, minus a few snowflakes here and there, is nice.

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It's really nice to read that Space Wolves are some how magically very powerful!

I have obviously been doing something wrong with my Space Wolves.... because it certaintly doesn't feel like that. Especially the absolutely useless frost weapons.

TWC are a joke, our ven dread is OK but nothing super special. Our characters pretty much are all mediocre/not special.

 Galef wrote:
Even though it doesn't always make sense, I do appreciate the simplicity of 90% of units being able to move and shoot with Heavy weapons at -1 to hit.
It is better than prior editions in which Infantry couldn't move at all, and vehicles were never affected by moving.
Having it work the same for everything, minus a few snowflakes here and there, is nice.

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I don't mind it either. I do think that there are some that if it is going to be that way, the points cost should reflect that. Like Landspeeders with double Multi Melta. You have 2 shots with a 50/50 to hit when you move. They shouldn't be 124 points. I'd place them in the 80 point range for effectiveness. And I would think some might feel I'm being generous there.

Reemule wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Even though it doesn't always make sense, I do appreciate the simplicity of 90% of units being able to move and shoot with Heavy weapons at -1 to hit.
It is better than prior editions in which Infantry couldn't move at all, and vehicles were never affected by moving.
Having it work the same for everything, minus a few snowflakes here and there, is nice.

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I don't mind it either. I do think that there are some that if it is going to be that way, the points cost should reflect that. Like Landspeeders with double Multi Melta. You have 2 shots with a 50/50 to hit when you move. They shouldn't be 124 points. I'd place them in the 80 point range for effectiveness. And I would think some might feel I'm being generous there.

I also kinda feel part of the problem with that particular setup is that MMs are just not worth their points. They should either be half the cost, or double the shots. Either option would make a 2MM LS a better option. I very much would prefer MMs have 2 shots each since the model has 2 barrels.
4 shots, even with 50/50 to hit, is still pretty decent, especially since a LS can easily get within Melta range.

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I feel changing the stats on the MM are a much bigger issue than fixing the models cost in re-pointing stuff in the CA at end of year.

If you go though and change the cost of MM on stuff like Devestators, and Land speeders, it avoids the need to try to change it on a few places it does work, like the Land Raider Crusader. (IMHO)

Reemule wrote:
I feel changing the stats on the MM are a much bigger issue than fixing the models cost in re-pointing stuff in the CA at end of year.

If you go though and change the cost of MM on stuff like Devestators, and Land speeders, it avoids the need to try to change it on a few places it does work, like the Land Raider Crusader. (IMHO)

The Land Raider doesn't work in the first place...so why would the Multi Melta work on it?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The Land Raider doesn't work in the first place...so why would the Multi Melta work on it?

It might not be perfect, but it is probably one of the better places to take a MM these days. Them and the Stormraven. They have PotMS, so can move to get into range without the -1. A cargo capacity filled with things that want to move close, and with the LRC/LRR, other close range guns.

Might not be the min/max choice, but if you want to field a MM, on top of a LR is probably your best bet.

Attack bikes can get a Chapter Tactic while a Landspeeder cannot. That sells the attack bikes IMO.

 Nevelon wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The Land Raider doesn't work in the first place...so why would the Multi Melta work on it?

It might not be perfect, but it is probably one of the better places to take a MM these days. Them and the Stormraven. They have PotMS, so can move to get into range without the -1. A cargo capacity filled with things that want to move close, and with the LRC/LRR, other close range guns.

Might not be the min/max choice, but if you want to field a MM, on top of a LR is probably your best bet.

Not when you get more of them for less on other platforms. Ignoring the -1 to hit cannot fix the ghastly price on them AND the Land Raider platform.

If I built a land speeder, I would most defenetly build a twin heavy flamer one. It's sole purpose would be to harrass units like genestealers. With fast movement it could likely shoot both in my turn and in overwatch. In case of miraculous survival, keword fly allows it to disengage and flame again. Seems good enough to me. since flamers auto hit, heavy penalty is not a problem. The other weapon options for it seems less appealing.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Attack bikes can get a Chapter Tactic while a Landspeeder cannot. That sells the attack bikes IMO.

Fair enough. And Attack bikes can be part of regular bike units, essentially giving then more protection.

But for my purposes, Chapter Tactics and other army Traits will not be used. The scale of the games I play with my kids is very small both in points/power level and in pared down rules.
And from a monetary stand point, a LS is a far better "deal" than an Attack bike. $3 more for extra wounds and far more weapon choices. It's also a decent distraction unit to take fire away from the Razorback/Dread it will be accompanying.

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