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Also if am reading this right we can use Detonate Concealed Explosives every turn...

For 2CP a turn though, for a 50% chance at a smite. Might be useful for an unreliable chance to finish off a key character though, or put a dent in an expensive 10 man unit like deathwatch.

I still doubt if the acolytes would be better to take them in small units with chargue bonuses (clamavus+fourarmedemperor+rerolls from broodsurge) or play 2/3 big units with perfect ambush..

What do you think?

Nick Rose is running a pretty standard GSC list. Since the codex isn't in this LVO that's probably for the best.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:


Finally, we have the new bikers, these guys are super flexible and can do multiple roles. 1 way is a drive by demo unit. Being able to move 20 inches (with the new ridgerunner buggy) and throw 5 democharge is again a powerful shooting ability. Again combine this with the biker character (who has a 12" buff for them) and these guys will be hitting on 3s with d6s Str8 AP-2 shots. With these costing only 75 pts you can afford to do this 2-3 turns in a row and just throw waves of suicide bikers at high value enemy targets. Or these guys can appear underground and within rapid fire range, and dont forget their quadbike flamer has a 12" range so wont be waste from deep striking.

...
Last comment. Our purestrains are now pointless and if you want to take genestealers then look at taking a kraken bomb. Metamorphes are now where it is at. Being able to take 5 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s at strength 5-6 is incredible and I plan on picking up 2 10 man squads of these guys for only 180pts.

Some clarifications to bikes: You cannot zip 20 inches and throw grenades. The rusted claw trait only allows to shoot assault weapons after advancing and not grenades. Also the grenades will potentially hit on 2+ with the Jackal Alphus buff and the strat gives +1 to hit and wound.
The purestrains are certainly worse than before but highly profit from "A perfect ambush". In comparison to metamorphs they have almost twice the staying power. And the 5 attacks hitting on 2s is not easily possible afaik. You need might from beyond, which would also be amazing on purestrains.The metamorphs hitting on 2+ you are talking about would also cost 10 pts a piece so 2x10 man squads minimum cost 200 points and not 180.

 Astmeister wrote:

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:


Finally, we have the new bikers, these guys are super flexible and can do multiple roles. 1 way is a drive by demo unit. Being able to move 20 inches (with the new ridgerunner buggy) and throw 5 democharge is again a powerful shooting ability. Again combine this with the biker character (who has a 12" buff for them) and these guys will be hitting on 3s with d6s Str8 AP-2 shots. With these costing only 75 pts you can afford to do this 2-3 turns in a row and just throw waves of suicide bikers at high value enemy targets. Or these guys can appear underground and within rapid fire range, and dont forget their quadbike flamer has a 12" range so wont be waste from deep striking.

...
Last comment. Our purestrains are now pointless and if you want to take genestealers then look at taking a kraken bomb. Metamorphes are now where it is at. Being able to take 5 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s at strength 5-6 is incredible and I plan on picking up 2 10 man squads of these guys for only 180pts.

Some clarifications to bikes: You cannot zip 20 inches and throw grenades. The rusted claw trait only allows to shoot assault weapons after advancing and not grenades. Also the grenades will potentially hit on 2+ with the Jackal Alphus buff and the strat gives +1 to hit and wound.
The purestrains are certainly worse than before but highly profit from "A perfect ambush". In comparison to metamorphs they have almost twice the staying power. And the 5 attacks hitting on 2s is not easily possible afaik. You need might from beyond, which would also be amazing on purestrains.The metamorphs hitting on 2+ you are talking about would also cost 10 pts a piece so 2x10 man squads minimum cost 200 points and not 180.

Ah tnaks for that clarfication, I guess 14" and bomb is still good

And I was talking basic metamorphs with 5 attacks hitting on 2. Each metamorph comes with a metamorpha talon which I believe gives an extra attack and hits on 2s. you can swap your rending claw with another talon so you get another +1 attack

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:


Finally, we have the new bikers, these guys are super flexible and can do multiple roles. 1 way is a drive by demo unit. Being able to move 20 inches (with the new ridgerunner buggy) and throw 5 democharge is again a powerful shooting ability. Again combine this with the biker character (who has a 12" buff for them) and these guys will be hitting on 3s with d6s Str8 AP-2 shots. With these costing only 75 pts you can afford to do this 2-3 turns in a row and just throw waves of suicide bikers at high value enemy targets. Or these guys can appear underground and within rapid fire range, and dont forget their quadbike flamer has a 12" range so wont be waste from deep striking.

...
Last comment. Our purestrains are now pointless and if you want to take genestealers then look at taking a kraken bomb. Metamorphes are now where it is at. Being able to take 5 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s at strength 5-6 is incredible and I plan on picking up 2 10 man squads of these guys for only 180pts.

Some clarifications to bikes: You cannot zip 20 inches and throw grenades. The rusted claw trait only allows to shoot assault weapons after advancing and not grenades. Also the grenades will potentially hit on 2+ with the Jackal Alphus buff and the strat gives +1 to hit and wound.
The purestrains are certainly worse than before but highly profit from "A perfect ambush". In comparison to metamorphs they have almost twice the staying power. And the 5 attacks hitting on 2s is not easily possible afaik. You need might from beyond, which would also be amazing on purestrains.The metamorphs hitting on 2+ you are talking about would also cost 10 pts a piece so 2x10 man squads minimum cost 200 points and not 180.

Ah tnaks for that clarfication, I guess 14" and bomb is still good

And I was talking basic metamorphs with 5 attacks hitting on 2. Each metamorph comes with a metamorpha talon which I believe gives an extra attack and hits on 2s. you can swap your rending claw with another talon so you get another +1 attack

I do not think that you can swap another rending claw for the talon. But even than each talon costs 1 point extra. So the Metamorph would end up costing 11 pts and does not have any AP.

 Astmeister wrote:

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:


Finally, we have the new bikers, these guys are super flexible and can do multiple roles. 1 way is a drive by demo unit. Being able to move 20 inches (with the new ridgerunner buggy) and throw 5 democharge is again a powerful shooting ability. Again combine this with the biker character (who has a 12" buff for them) and these guys will be hitting on 3s with d6s Str8 AP-2 shots. With these costing only 75 pts you can afford to do this 2-3 turns in a row and just throw waves of suicide bikers at high value enemy targets. Or these guys can appear underground and within rapid fire range, and dont forget their quadbike flamer has a 12" range so wont be waste from deep striking.

...
Last comment. Our purestrains are now pointless and if you want to take genestealers then look at taking a kraken bomb. Metamorphes are now where it is at. Being able to take 5 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s at strength 5-6 is incredible and I plan on picking up 2 10 man squads of these guys for only 180pts.

Some clarifications to bikes: You cannot zip 20 inches and throw grenades. The rusted claw trait only allows to shoot assault weapons after advancing and not grenades. Also the grenades will potentially hit on 2+ with the Jackal Alphus buff and the strat gives +1 to hit and wound.
The purestrains are certainly worse than before but highly profit from "A perfect ambush". In comparison to metamorphs they have almost twice the staying power. And the 5 attacks hitting on 2s is not easily possible afaik. You need might from beyond, which would also be amazing on purestrains.The metamorphs hitting on 2+ you are talking about would also cost 10 pts a piece so 2x10 man squads minimum cost 200 points and not 180.

Ah tnaks for that clarfication, I guess 14" and bomb is still good

And I was talking basic metamorphs with 5 attacks hitting on 2. Each metamorph comes with a metamorpha talon which I believe gives an extra attack and hits on 2s. you can swap your rending claw with another talon so you get another +1 attack

I do not think that you can swap another rending claw for the talon. But even than each talon costs 1 point extra. So the Metamorph would end up costing 11 pts and does not have any AP.

I could be wrong also, but from watching the SS82 video I think all the metamorph weapons apart from the metamorph claw is free (the claw costs 4 points per model) and you can for sure take 2 on 1 guy. You come with a meta talon, rending claw and sutopistol and you can swap the rending claw for another meta talon

Its at the roughly 40min mark he covers metamorphs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FReFkWVy6Zw

Any way of getting bonuses to wound in shooting on the acolyte flamer bomb? I guess the 'old grudges' warlord trait is an option if you chose one target.

If you picked a knight as the target of this and got a full squad to shoot it while getting double shots and old grudges you'd do about 14 wounds

Just love the idea of a knight being flamered to death, never mind what the combo does to infantry

 DoomMouse wrote:
Any way of getting bonuses to wound in shooting on the acolyte flamer bomb? I guess the 'old grudges' warlord trait is an option if you chose one target.

If you picked a knight as the target of this and got a full squad to shoot it while getting double shots and old grudges you'd do about 14 wounds

Just love the idea of a knight being flamered to death, never mind what the combo does to infantry

A primus can let them reroll 1s to wound, when he is close by against a certain target.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another possibility to try biker:
- Pauper princes (reroll to hit)
- Might from beyond on the bikers
- give them cultist knives and/or power picks

They should do quite okayish damage against most targets.

 Colonel Cross wrote:
I heard it is D6 shots, S5, AP1, D1. So pretty unusable lol

(fixed weapon profile)

Ah. Yeah, probably a pass on that one for me. You'd want to use that in tandem with the augur array for ignore cover, but then you'd be a 68 point model that when shooting at their perfect target (guardsmen in cover which you then get to ignore) sees a 13.5% points return. Oof.

Even if you make it a more reasonably priced GEQ target like a guardian/kabalite/fire warrior etc, your points return is abysmal compared to what you can get for chaff clearing elsewhere in the 'dex.

Yeah, not looking terribly great for the ol ridgerunner. Best use I can come up with is to just equip him with the lasers, scout move him up so he can be stationary turn 1, and pair him with a jackal alphus buffing up all your goliaths full of neophytes (buffs the guys inside because it's a modifier to hit and not a re-roll)

Only thing I can say for it over the rockgrinder is that it's more willing to hang back and be a stationary gunline element. but I don't see much of a compelling reason to actually run as a gunline unless you're doing it for fluffy purposes, because just going balls to the wall deep strike alpha is still the best way to play GSC. Three attempts at the cult ambush system and they haven't managed to make the army not a one-note charge machine.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:
I heard it is D6 shots, S5, AP1, D1. So pretty unusable lol

(fixed weapon profile)

Ah. Yeah, probably a pass on that one for me. You'd want to use that in tandem with the augur array for ignore cover, but then you'd be a 68 point model that when shooting at their perfect target (guardsmen in cover which you then get to ignore) sees a 13.5% points return. Oof.

Even if you make it a more reasonably priced GEQ target like a guardian/kabalite/fire warrior etc, your points return is abysmal compared to what you can get for chaff clearing elsewhere in the 'dex.

Yeah, not looking terribly great for the ol ridgerunner. Best use I can come up with is to just equip him with the lasers, scout move him up so he can be stationary turn 1, and pair him with a jackal alphus buffing up all your goliaths full of neophytes (buffs the guys inside because it's a modifier to hit and not a re-roll)

Only thing I can say for it over the rockgrinder is that it's more willing to hang back and be a stationary gunline element. but I don't see much of a compelling reason to actually run as a gunline unless you're doing it for fluffy purposes, because just going balls to the wall deep strike alpha is still the best way to play GSC. Three attempts at the cult ambush system and they haven't managed to make the army not a one-note charge machine.

Imho it will be pretty important to clear screens and chaff turn 1. The ridgerunner will be one of the things doing that, since we do not have so much t1 long ranged fire power. You could either use Leman Russ, HWT, Ridgerunner, Atalans or the transports. But then the transports have to move and will thus be shooting quite inefficiently.
So for me there will be definitely a case for running a ridgerunner.

More problematic seems to be that you can just reasonably use them with a lot of vehicles. Otherwise they die immediately.

 Astmeister wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:
I heard it is D6 shots, S5, AP1, D1. So pretty unusable lol

(fixed weapon profile)

Ah. Yeah, probably a pass on that one for me. You'd want to use that in tandem with the augur array for ignore cover, but then you'd be a 68 point model that when shooting at their perfect target (guardsmen in cover which you then get to ignore) sees a 13.5% points return. Oof.

Even if you make it a more reasonably priced GEQ target like a guardian/kabalite/fire warrior etc, your points return is abysmal compared to what you can get for chaff clearing elsewhere in the 'dex.

Yeah, not looking terribly great for the ol ridgerunner. Best use I can come up with is to just equip him with the lasers, scout move him up so he can be stationary turn 1, and pair him with a jackal alphus buffing up all your goliaths full of neophytes (buffs the guys inside because it's a modifier to hit and not a re-roll)

Only thing I can say for it over the rockgrinder is that it's more willing to hang back and be a stationary gunline element. but I don't see much of a compelling reason to actually run as a gunline unless you're doing it for fluffy purposes, because just going balls to the wall deep strike alpha is still the best way to play GSC. Three attempts at the cult ambush system and they haven't managed to make the army not a one-note charge machine.

Imho it will be pretty important to clear screens and chaff turn 1. The ridgerunner will be one of the things doing that, since we do not have so much t1 long ranged fire power. You could either use Leman Russ, HWT, Ridgerunner, Atalans or the transports. But then the transports have to move and will thus be shooting quite inefficiently.
So for me there will be definitely a case for running a ridgerunner.

More problematic seems to be that you can just reasonably use them with a lot of vehicles. Otherwise they die immediately.

I would much much rather use any of the following for that job:

-Neophytes with webbers in a goliath
-atalan jackals with shotgun+autogun
-A goliath rockgrinder with a clearance incinerator advancing
-A cult leman russ with a shooty loadout
-Allied brood brothers punishers/wyverns/HWT mortars/infantry squads with FRFSRF/literally anything in the guard codex

All of those have far better points return punching at chaff than the ridgerunner with mortar and stubbers. It is a model that costs 63 points minimum equipped with less armament than a chimera.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heck, if you want to bypass the half-CP thing, bring a brood brothers supreme command with a company commander and 2 punisher tank commanders. The company commander can issue orders to brood bro infantry squads you bring in your GSC detachments that give full CPs, you still get your 1cp for the supcom detachment since you round up, and if you want, you can throw in a unit of order-able bullgryns if that gaks your giggles.

"Hey bullgryns, how about you move 24" in a turn!"

"OK now fight twice, good lads."

the_scotsman wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:
I heard it is D6 shots, S5, AP1, D1. So pretty unusable lol

(fixed weapon profile)

Ah. Yeah, probably a pass on that one for me. You'd want to use that in tandem with the augur array for ignore cover, but then you'd be a 68 point model that when shooting at their perfect target (guardsmen in cover which you then get to ignore) sees a 13.5% points return. Oof.

Even if you make it a more reasonably priced GEQ target like a guardian/kabalite/fire warrior etc, your points return is abysmal compared to what you can get for chaff clearing elsewhere in the 'dex.

Yeah, not looking terribly great for the ol ridgerunner. Best use I can come up with is to just equip him with the lasers, scout move him up so he can be stationary turn 1, and pair him with a jackal alphus buffing up all your goliaths full of neophytes (buffs the guys inside because it's a modifier to hit and not a re-roll)

Only thing I can say for it over the rockgrinder is that it's more willing to hang back and be a stationary gunline element. but I don't see much of a compelling reason to actually run as a gunline unless you're doing it for fluffy purposes, because just going balls to the wall deep strike alpha is still the best way to play GSC. Three attempts at the cult ambush system and they haven't managed to make the army not a one-note charge machine.

Imho it will be pretty important to clear screens and chaff turn 1. The ridgerunner will be one of the things doing that, since we do not have so much t1 long ranged fire power. You could either use Leman Russ, HWT, Ridgerunner, Atalans or the transports. But then the transports have to move and will thus be shooting quite inefficiently.
So for me there will be definitely a case for running a ridgerunner.

More problematic seems to be that you can just reasonably use them with a lot of vehicles. Otherwise they die immediately.

I would much much rather use any of the following for that job:

-Neophytes with webbers in a goliath
-atalan jackals with shotgun+autogun
-A goliath rockgrinder with a clearance incinerator advancing
-A cult leman russ with a shooty loadout
-Allied brood brothers punishers/wyverns/HWT mortars/infantry squads with FRFSRF/literally anything in the guard codex

All of those have far better points return punching at chaff than the ridgerunner with mortar and stubbers. It is a model that costs 63 points minimum equipped with less armament than a chimera.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heck, if you want to bypass the half-CP thing, bring a brood brothers supreme command with a company commander and 2 punisher tank commanders. The company commander can issue orders to brood bro infantry squads you bring in your GSC detachments that give full CPs, you still get your 1cp for the supcom detachment since you round up, and if you want, you can throw in a unit of order-able bullgryns if that gaks your giggles.

"Hey bullgryns, how about you move 24" in a turn!"

"OK now fight twice, good lads."

- Neophytes in a Goliath do work, but their damage output is not so much better than the ridgerunner and are much more expensive
- Again: Atalan Jackals cannot have a autogun unless they are the leader. So they only have some shotgun shots, which will be S3. Because you cannot get closer turn 1.
- Clearance incinerator is heavy so that does not work.
- cult leman russ and brood brothers in general work. I would argue that dakka-fexes do the thing better.

By the way I would use the ridgerunner with heavy mining laser anyway. The heavy mortar is really not good.

EDIT: can't brain.

For aberrants, hammers or picks? : /

Autogun plus shotgun is just legal for the leader, if you read the entire datasheet entry.

I'm sorry, you can say "again" but you're still wrong about the autogun/shotgun jackals. The images are up on page 2, both the screencap of the unit entry and a scan of the wargear list.

If you read the unit entry it says " only the Atalan leader can take an autogun, bolt pistol or power axe"

Seems pretty clear cut to me. And i seriously think you are kidding yourself if you think the extra 10-20 str 3 shots were killing a whole lot.

But it is legal to take cultist knife + power weapon or improvised weapon. At least with might from beyond they will be okay.

It literally says "Only the Jackal Leader can take" and then lists the gear choices.

Don't be snarky when you're wrong. Tends to not be a good look.

Every Atalan Jackal (except Leader) can take Shotgun + Autogun, end of story. I posted the image above and you can check by yourself

 Cephalobeard wrote:
It literally says "Only the Jackal Leader can take" and then lists the gear choices.

Don't be snarky when you're wrong. Tends to not be a good look.

Yep, sorry about that. in the blurry image I messed up the wording and thought it said "The atalan leader can only take".

It does in fact say "only the atalan leader can take". I was 100% wrong about that, should not have been snarky.

All good, homie. We're all hyped for things, I made a very similar mistake last night when I saw the gear list. I think it's worded very poorly, and other codexes typically have a "SARGEANT ONLY" section, which this doesn't.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
All good, homie. We're all hyped for things, I made a very similar mistake last night when I saw the gear list. I think it's worded very poorly, and other codexes typically have a "SARGEANT ONLY" section, which this doesn't.

I agree

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Every Atalan can take Shotgun + Autogun, end of story. I posted the image above and you can check by yourself

So, by end of story, do you mean: "If we ignore the rules written on the unit, that state ONLY THIS ONE MODEL CAN TAKE IT"?

"Only one in every four of these models can take a grenade launcher, AND only the Atalan Leader can take an autogun, bolt pistol, or power axe."

It's almost, almost, as though they gave a large wargear section because the leader doesn't HAVE to take one, and as such wrote it giving you a multitude of options, but clearly wrote the restrictions on the rules for the unit.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
All good, homie. We're all hyped for things, I made a very similar mistake last night when I saw the gear list. I think it's worded very poorly, and other codexes typically have a "SARGEANT ONLY" section, which this doesn't.

Yep, I was looking for the usual superscript "1" next to the weapons list that is usually how GW puts in the sergeant-only options. Either that or they put sergeant only options on their own line. The way this is formatted is different to anything I've ever seen except for a couple instances.

blurgh. Guess these guys really are a worse version of rough riders.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Every Atalan can take Shotgun + Autogun, end of story. I posted the image above and you can check by yourself

So, by end of story, do you mean: "If we ignore the rules written on the unit, that state ONLY THIS ONE MODEL CAN TAKE IT"?

"Only one in every four of these models can take a grenade launcher, AND only the Atalan Leader can take an autogun, bolt pistol, or power axe."

It's almost, almost, as though they gave a large wargear section because the leader doesn't HAVE to take one, and as such wrote it giving you a multitude of options, but clearly wrote the restrictions on the rules for the unit.

It's a badly written rule because it means that the Atalan Leader can only take these 3 weapons (and not that ONLY HE can take them). If you put it up the way you read it there's no reason to ever include Autoguns/Bolt Pistols/Power axes in the ATALAN WEAPONS LIST.
Also if you check the Kit you've got multiples of these weapons, they literally misplaced the word "only"

So, to clarify, to reach the conclusion you're after we have to remove the word included in the rules?

I'm not doing that. If their INTENT is something else, they can clarify it, but RAW the word ONLY is included, and that's the rule.

Also the sprue doesn't "Include multiple autoguns", it includes two, simply by virtue of there being TWO identical sprues.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
So, to clarify, to reach the conclusion you're after we have to remove the word included in the rules?

I'm not doing that. If their INTENT is something else, they can clarify it, but RAW the word ONLY is included, and that's the rule.

Also the sprue doesn't "Include multiple autoguns", it includes two, simply by virtue of there being TWO identical sprues.

Actually you might be right, it doesn't even include doubles for these 3 weapons (only multiple Shotguns and Autopistols though so if we think this way we wouldn't be able to equip multiple melee weapons)

Yeah. The way it's worded is to give the Leader options, as in ONLY THEY can take the better options (Autoguns, etc), but they CAN still take other things.

See: My list, I'm using all Knvies and Shotguns. They have a wider range of wargear, but it's restricted by the rule on the Leader.

It's weird, they don't word it this way for anyone else, but (to me) that's how it seems to be.