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Large inf hordes unlock two things, so it is not really that big of a deal. The loss of unlocks from LI regiments i silly though, not as if you saw many of those in 2nd. Since Ogres don´t have warmachines, the horde change actually don´t affect them at all.

They have certainly nerfed chariots in pretty much all ways. CoK18/19 might have buffed them a bit too much, but they hardly saw play before that boost, and now they look even worse than pre-CoK. My chariot tomb king army is destroyed as a concept with 3rd.

With the massive changes to units all across the board, and with some early clear winners and loser, I am guessing that the balance is actually worse with 3rd than it was. Silverbreeze seem like an obvious very good spammable unit now for example, same with siegebreakers. While chariots are worse across the board at a higher cost.

It is probably still a very good game though.

Anyone got the rulebook yet? My order is still stuck at "Ready for dispatch"

No book here yet. Pre ordered from Mantic. I imagine it will take two weeks or so from release so sometime next week is my guess.

I am waiting, i ordered mine from a "local" store (by that i mean it's only a few hundred miles from me)

Got my copy, but I picked it up at my FLGS.

Valete,

JohnS

And just like that the order status changed to dispatched! Sometimes complaining works

Having leafed through the book now, it definitely has that GW-like feeling of change for change's sake, mysterious cutting of units and options, screwing with base sizes, rules bloat in strange places, sloppy editing and an absolutely atrocious layout that makes it impossible to gauge units at a glance.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Having leafed through the book now, it definitely has that GW-like feeling of change for change's sake, mysterious cutting of units and options, screwing with base sizes, rules bloat in strange places, sloppy editing and an absolutely atrocious layout that makes it impossible to gauge units at a glance.

Strange how different people look differently towards a new book!

Having read through the rulebook (at least the rulespart) completely by now; I'm positively surprised. The game is 90% the same as KoW 2nd edition. A few minor changes in the core rules (mainly the disengage mechanic over the 1"fallback of 2nd edition and the fact that charge distances now measure from anywhere on the base instead of leaderpoint) but that's it. the only gripe I had with the rules [url]http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/10/28/pondering-the-3rd-edition-preferred-model-count//url] has already been rectified by Mantic.

The main difference is not in the main game, but in army selection. I think some changes were due (as speed and some shooting were too good in 2nd) and others changes are made to consolidate some unit entries again. (mainly the fact that a lot of monsters had a 50*50 and 75*75mm counterpart) . Though I haven't had a chance to actually play a game of 3rd edition; I rebuilt some of my armies and my gut feeling is they are more balanced than they were. I can only hope my opponents will feel the same, as I don't want to face another archer + chariot + drakon army ever again. (Not that I will, since these 3 units have become irregular)

On the subject of the new layout, I somewhat agree with you. I do like a spreadsheet layout better and unit comparison is not that easy. On the subject of editing, absolutely not. The book is distincly better than all its predecessors, both in artwork, fluff quality and editing.

For those interested, I reviewed the 3rd edition undead army: http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/10/29/kings-of-war-3rd-edition-undead-preview-1/

Been playing a bit of this on TTS (heresy, I know!) with my older brother. It's pretty good. Warhammer Fantasy was before my time, but from what I've gathered, this is a worthy successor. It is in my opinion, too!

I've got a Dwarfs army on the way, and I'd like to try Brotherhood when the rules for that army in this edition comes out. I like that you can play straight out of the main rulebook!

For those of you who bought KoW: Vanguard, are any of you also annoyed by the base size changes for Phantoms & Snow Trolls? Phantoms are now "Heavy Infantry" (25mm square), and Snow Trolls are now Monsterous Infantry (50mm square). Being that in Vanguard, Phantoms were on 20mm bases and Snow Trolls on 40mm, I now have to pry them from their bases without destroying the figures (a challenge as they are super-glued) and base them properly for 3rd ed. Similarly, I'll have to do the same for my Greater Obsidian Golem as it is now a "Titan", (75mm square).

I just put a larger base (sheet of plastic card or one of the left over mdf bases from units I multi based) below the old ones if it is a single model (and add decoration)

while for single based models in units I just use the larger regiment bases

Ancestral Hamster wrote:For those of you who bought KoW: Vanguard, are any of you also annoyed by the base size changes for Phantoms & Snow Trolls? Phantoms are now "Heavy Infantry" (25mm square), and Snow Trolls are now Monsterous Infantry (50mm square). Being that in Vanguard, Phantoms were on 20mm bases and Snow Trolls on 40mm, I now have to pry them from their bases without destroying the figures (a challenge as they are super-glued) and base them properly for 3rd ed. Similarly, I'll have to do the same for my Greater Obsidian Golem as it is now a "Titan", (75mm square).

My phantoms came with a 25mm base. There were many questions on social media about it.

Kodos' solution is probably what I'll have to do with my GOG and Phantoms. As I have 3 new Snow Trolls from Shadows in the North, they can be built and based for Vanguard. The old ones I'll try to remove from their wooden bases and multi-base. They were too big to rank up on 40mms.

Yeah base changes are super annoying especially as Mantic is going down the "models drive rules" path and axed things like 50mm based Giants and Greater Earth Elementals, even though it was initially said there would be 50mm and 75mm versions of most monsters.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yeah base changes are super annoying especially as Mantic is going down the "models drive rules" path and axed things like 50mm based Giants and Greater Earth Elementals, even though it was initially said there would be 50mm and 75mm versions of most monsters.

I'm happy they didn't do two versions of monsters, things feel more balanced with fewer half-redundant entries, and competitively (i.e. in virtually all games) people pretty much only took the mega versions of monsters anyway, especially in the case of the mega flyers.* It's also pretty easy to upgrade a 50mm square to a 75mm square, I'm less enthused about the Large Infantry units that went to Monstrous Infantry, as that's significant space that I'm now having to paint more models to fill up

*Giants are in fact one of the few 50mm versions I still saw kicking around, but why would Mantic make a tiny giant when the colossal was out and could be standardized in?

Let's just say it hurts my OCD that three greater elementals have a 50mm base and one has a 75.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Let's just say it hurts my OCD that three greater elementals have a 50mm base and one has a 75.

I'm with you there And was shocked to see it, so inconsistent, especially as Mantic makes 3 of the 4 themselves and surely could just give them all 75mm ones ...

In Vanguard, a NA Lord is on a 25mm, but in 3rd ed KoW is a 20mm. A Thegn is 25mm, so my Vanguard Lord will be a Thegn (not a huge sacrifice as that gives access to a NA-only Rallying Standard). I'll figure out what to do for a Lord later ... perhaps my Reaper Bones Ingrid (Valkyrie-like figure).

As for ranking up the new NA human Clansmen, was able to get 18 of 20 on a tray. Was going to multi-base them, but remembered I need some primitive figures for my long-planned Five Leagues from the Borderlands campaign, and the human clansmen would do nicely. The ones built as Pack Hunters will be on a Troop multi-base.

As much as I want to try the Northern Alliance, when we can get a game in I'll want to see how my Abyssal Dwarves fare under the new rules/changes. Reworked an 2nd ed list. My Ironcasters have a better assortment of spells, the Immortal Guard might be immortal with Regen 5+, but the costs meant I had to drop 1 of my two rocket launchers.

Well, I finally got my copy of the rules. I'm still a bit sad that the two armies I actually have ready access to (ratkin and kingdoms of men) aren't actually in there. They're in the background of course and i know they're going to come, but still.

Are the ratkin going to have a name change? I noticed they're referred to as something else in the book.

Maybe for now I'll pretend my men are basileans.

 amazingturtles wrote:
Well, I finally got my copy of the rules. I'm still a bit sad that the two armies I actually have ready access to (ratkin and kingdoms of men) aren't actually in there. They're in the background of course and i know they're going to come, but still.

You see MC's sneak of KOM last week? Here it is anyway:




Rats + ??? might be up today? Heard whispers it might be Salamanders + Free Dwarfs next-ish tho.

I hadn't seen that yet, thanks! My tendency to avoid videos probably kept me from seeing it.

Dedicated Ratkin models have been sighted (and confirmed by Mantic) in some recent photos (they aren't in the rulebook photos though).

From what I have heard, they are gonna do a online-only kit which combines veermyn bodies and orc arms. So no official ratkin release, just a conversion kit.

the conversion kit:



Ratkin Slaves:

Oh cool, do we know what material the slaves will be in?

nothing on the material yet, but I guess we can rule out plastic and it will bei either PVC or Resin

Two more Uncharted Empires sneaks that didn't make it over here:

Last Thursday was Sylvan / Twilight Kin:




And yesterday was Free Dorfs + Sallies:





Automatically Appended Next Post:

dyndraig wrote:
From what I have heard, they are gonna do a online-only kit which combines veermyn bodies and orc arms. So no official ratkin release, just a conversion kit.

Which looks way better than I would have expected!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Having leafed through the book now, it definitely has that GW-like feeling of change for change's sake, mysterious cutting of units and options, screwing with base sizes, rules bloat in strange places, sloppy editing and an absolutely atrocious layout that makes it impossible to gauge units at a glance.

The screwing with base sizes is very annoying. So much care is put into these models on our part.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vince1248 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Having leafed through the book now, it definitely has that GW-like feeling of change for change's sake, mysterious cutting of units and options, screwing with base sizes, rules bloat in strange places, sloppy editing and an absolutely atrocious layout that makes it impossible to gauge units at a glance.

Strange how different people look differently towards a new book!


On the subject of the new layout, I somewhat agree with you. I do like a spreadsheet layout better and unit comparison is not that easy. On the subject of editing, absolutely not. The book is distincly better than all its predecessors, both in artwork, fluff quality and editing.

For those interested, I reviewed the 3rd edition undead army: http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/10/29/kings-of-war-3rd-edition-undead-preview-1/

Thanks for the undead review Vince, it was fun to read.

Orders up!

The ratkin look surprisingly good! Though i'm not a fan of the masks and the heads.