Breton wrote:The Newman wrote:
1) Nobody in this thread has responded to that underlined bit like they knew what you meant, but only one person in the thread has responded to that underlined bit at all. I'll cop to my own hyperbole there, but I stand by my doubt that anyone read that bit the way you meant it. (And again, not disagreeing with what you actually meant here.)
I also stand by the sentiment that the Phobos powers have a place in a more general Marine list and the Eliminators are most of the reason that they do.
2) We're going to have to agree to disagree on the Suppressors, they're the second best thing Marines got out of Shadow Spear after the new Warlord Traits.
BrianDavion wrote:Lemondish wrote:Breton wrote:Phobos only psychic powers in a Phobos starter set mini-game like Shadowspear kinda-sorta was works. As soon as they hit the main 'dex they kinda sorta don't.
What?
the buffs in the obscuration powerset only apply to marines with the phobos keyword
1) Brian got it.
1A) A one trick pony requiring somewhere around 20% or more of your Army, and not being nullified, to pull off doesn't really feel like a place.
2) Inceptors outperform them even before the -1 to hit for moving and firing heavy, and after they had to make an all new and better Autocannon and including the overwatch rule Marines aren't going to care about because close combat is generally so bad in the whole game. Both the un-supercharged Plasma and the Autocannon have the same
STR so vs T isn't going to change.
Vs T4 3+ Plasma Interceptors do 9.05 wounds per game. 24 shots (D3 Average x2 x6) 16 shots (3+ 67%) 10.77 wounds (3+/67%) 9.05 (84% after 3+ -3 6+ save)
vs T4 the Supressors do- (2 shots x 6 turns) 12 shots, 9 hits(67%), 6 wounding hits (67%), 8 wounds after 5+ (-2) saves and D Mods.
Now you could argue the Inceptors have shorter range and don't get to shoot every turn, but at 9 wounds to 8 wounds, even if they only shoot every other turn(unlikely with M12 Jump Packs), they're still doing more wounds, after I get my hypothetical situation that moving with a Heavy, having to jumppack dance around
LOS blocking terrain the Suppressors aren't even doing 8 wounds anymore. 12 shots, 6 hits (50%) 4 wounding hits (67%) 5.36 with the -1.
And I still have overcharge and T5 in my Inceptor's back pocket
1) Brian got what you meant in the first post, which was eight or nine posts back from the line I underlined and specifically called out. The one where you said "Because as soon as they hit the main Codex being ALL Phobos ceases to be a thing." Nobody else has responded to that. I still think it's a terrible way to phrase what you meant, but eh; context is a thing.
1a) Emperor only knows what a six-man Lasfusile Eliminator squad is going to cost, but it would have to be 300 points to be 20% of a list along side a Libby. That ... ok, I don't like how plausible the back-of-the-envelope math on that actually sounds if the Lasfusile is in the vicinity of a Lascannon.
Still, a dedicated
AT platform that can't be targetted without a flubbed 6+ psychic test or getting a psycher close enough for a Deny test (and then
succeeding...) sounds pretty solid to me. Especially when we still have no idea what the
40k profile of a Lasfusile is going to look like. It could just as easily look more like a Suppressor Cannon or a Centurion Missile Launcher than a Lascannon and be better against a wide range of targets.
2) I wouldn't argue about getting more chances to shoot, but I
would point out that you're comparing a single Plasma Inceptor to a single Suppressor when they're 60 points to 35. You have to compare 7 Inceptors to 12 Suppressors for that to come out even. Using your own results that's 63 wounds for the Inceptors and 96 for the Suppressors. It's 70 for the Suppressors if they move every turn, but they have enough range to make that unlikely.
Eldar- 4436 pts
