Fate of Index Units

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**Daedalus81**

Not Online!!! wrote:

Yeah, not so funny now isn't it?

You mistake my position. I find your assessment of GW's rules to be incorrect and overblown.

**Not Online!!!**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Yeah, not so funny now isn't it?

You mistake my position. I find your assessment of GW's rules to be incorrect and overblown.

Is it though?
Or are you now just blindly accepting GW standard.

**Daedalus81**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Yeah, not so funny now isn't it?

You mistake my position. I find your assessment of GW's rules to be incorrect and overblown.

Is it though?
Or are you now just blindly accepting GW standard.

List the units that are currently brokenly OP.

Furthermore, if "95% of units are not worth it" then doesn't that actually mean that 95% of the units are balanced? Maybe you're so focused on hating GW that you forgot what balance looks like...

**Fictional**

Ishagu wrote:
Before people start crying bout having their factions "crapped" on, remember that the Legends announcement comes alongside the declaration of new campaign books that will bring new units to EVERY faction.

It doesnt guarantee new units for every faction.

Just that every faction will have something new, be it models, rules or war gear.

**Backspacehacker**

Gw basically just told me my army is no invalidated so, what's going to happen? They are going to loose players. Like personally I'm done with 8th. It's a gak edition that's only been watered down more and more for the lowest common denominator of player base that did not want to put in any effort to learn the game. As a result we lost soul to the game. My deathwing and raven wing armies are pretty much perma shelfed now.

Enjoy 8th if you like it, it's been a fun 10 years for me, but think I'm done playing 40k now.

**Sterling191**

Backspacehacker wrote:
Gw basically just told me my army is no invalidated so, what's going to happen?

Presumes facts not in evidence.

**Backspacehacker**

Sterling191 wrote:
Backspacehacker wrote:
Gw basically just told me my army is no invalidated so, what's going to happen?

Presumes facts not in evidence.

Gw has left captains, Chaplin's, librarians, and interogstor Chaplin's that can go in or on a bike in the index since launch, or in terminator armor.

Basically if you don't have a model made, your going into ledgends. Deathwing and raven wing are never going to get an update. My army has been mothballed. That's not an opinion that's a fact, GW does not care about you if you are not a primaris player, as every launch of models have shown that.

This is absolutely what it felt like being a tomb king

**Dysartes**

Backspacehacker wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
Backspacehacker wrote:
Gw basically just told me my army is no invalidated so, what's going to happen?

Presumes facts not in evidence.

Gw has left captains, Chaplin's, librarians, and interogstor Chaplin's that can go in or on a bike in the index since launch, or in terminator armor.

Basically if you don't have a model made, your going into ledgends. Deathwing and raven wing are never going to get an update. My army has been mothballed. That's not an opinion that's a fact, GW does not care about you if you are not a primaris player, as every launch of models have shown that.

This is absolutely what it felt like being a tomb king

Captain on a Bike has been in both SM books, though I agree regarding the other characters.

I would guess that "Master on Bike" doesn't exist in the DA book because Sammael does, and he is the Master of the Ravenwing, after all...

**Backspacehacker**

Sure but Chaplin's and librarians, being very important are just mothballed now.

And let's be honest GW is never going to update the terminators or the raven wing.

**Crazyterran**

Yeah, DA fluff handicaps having anything but Sammael, since every Ravenwing commander has also ridden a jetbike (or so they've implied), so...

**Sterling191**

Backspacehacker wrote:

Basically if you don't have a model made, your going into ledgends. Deathwing and raven wing are never going to get an update. My army has been mothballed. That's not an opinion that's a fact, GW does not care about you if you are not a primaris player, as every launch of models have shown that.

This is absolutely what it felt like being a tomb king

Legends explicitly allows for these units to be fielded.

**Backspacehacker**

Sterling191 wrote:
Backspacehacker wrote:

Basically if you don't have a model made, your going into ledgends. Deathwing and raven wing are never going to get an update. My army has been mothballed. That's not an opinion that's a fact, GW does not care about you if you are not a primaris player, as every launch of models have shown that.

This is absolutely what it felt like being a tomb king

Legends explicitly allows for these units to be fielded.

Check it again, they explicitly say, they will not recommend or consider ledgends units for competative play. It's exactly what happened to tomb Kings. You get thrown on the bottom shelf and left to collect dust and are not allowed to play in tournaments anymore. It's pretty gakky honestly. You spend 10 + years collecting building painting and playing an army you really grew to love only to have them thrown to the side one day and told yeah you can't play in tournaments anymore, feels batman. Feels real batman

**Sterling191**

Backspacehacker wrote:

Check it again, they explicitly say, they will not recommend or consider ledgends units for competative play. It's exactly what happened to tomb Kings. You get thrown on the bottom shelf and left to collect dust and are not allowed to play in tournaments anymore. It's pretty gakky honestly. You spend 10 + years collecting building painting and playing an army you really grew to love only to have them thrown to the side one day and told yeah you can't play in tournaments anymore, feels batman. Feels real batman

I've read the statement extensively. They are providing permanent rules support for these units, alongside a points cost so they can be used in matched play. The reason they are not recommending them for tournament play is because they are not providing ongoing points revisions. In a living ruleset, that is not the best for competitive play.

You are explicitly allowed to play your army. If you choose not to, it is by your own choice, not GWs.

**Daedalus81**

Backspacehacker wrote:

Check it again, they explicitly say, they will not recommend or consider ledgends units for competative play. It's exactly what happened to tomb Kings. You get thrown on the bottom shelf and left to collect dust and are not allowed to play in tournaments anymore. It's pretty gakky honestly. You spend 10 + years collecting building painting and playing an army you really grew to love only to have them thrown to the side one day and told yeah you can't play in tournaments anymore, feels batman. Feels real batman

I have shelves full of models I don't play with anymore. Doesn't mean I'm mad about it.

I don't play Warcraft 1 or 2. Or Starcraft. Or World of Warcraft. Or HOMM3.

That doesn't mean i'm pissed that I spent money on those things when the companies that made them put out new versions. And it doesn't mean when I might not enjoy newer versions as much that my rose tinted nostalgia glasses are telling me the truth about how good the games 'used to be'.

**Backspacehacker**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Backspacehacker wrote:

Check it again, they explicitly say, they will not recommend or consider ledgends units for competative play. It's exactly what happened to tomb Kings. You get thrown on the bottom shelf and left to collect dust and are not allowed to play in tournaments anymore. It's pretty gakky honestly. You spend 10 + years collecting building painting and playing an army you really grew to love only to have them thrown to the side one day and told yeah you can't play in tournaments anymore, feels batman. Feels real batman

I have shelves full of models I don't play with anymore. Doesn't mean I'm mad about it.

I don't play Warcraft 1 or 2. Or Starcraft. Or World of Warcraft. Or HOMM3.

That doesn't mean i'm pissed that I spent money on those things when the companies that made them put out new versions. And it doesn't mean when I might not enjoy newer versions as much that my rose tinted nostalgia glasses are telling me the truth about how good the games 'used to be'.

That's nice that you feel that way, but I got into 40k because of my army, I played it because of my army. The way you play does not invalidate my interests in the hobby, nor does mine invalidate yours.

You have other armies you enjoy and that's cool, good for you, I don't that much. Imagine if your favorite army was all you played and then one day GW just said hey want don't want you to play anymore and just says you can totally buy all these other armies that don't interest you at all to keep playing. At that point why are you playing and buying armies you don't enjoy?

**DominayTrix**

Not Online!!! wrote:
DominayTrix wrote:
Pretty happy with this change to be honest. While there are plenty of people who used index only for rule of cool type stuff, the vast majority of things people are complaining about are better than all their codex counterparts so people run them. Alternatively, while people are assuming that nobody will use the models once they are de-facto banned from matched play, this could be something that drives people to open play.

Most of the models are relatively small(nothing bigger than a biker?) so it wouldn't be too hard to transport a handful of extra models so you have a "Legends" list as well as a "Matched play" list. Not very different from EDH players who swap cards between multiple decks depending on the power level of the table.

Super great, i find that perfect, as do my over 4000 pts renegades and heretics.

Have an Honorary-shill-marine.

That's exactly why I said there are plenty of people who use indexes for rule of cool. R&H is played for style, but has GW said anything to make us think that FW indexes are going away other than typical GW hamfisted language?

**Stormonu**

Hey, GW could have just silently shoved these models under the carpet and never spoke of them again. Instead, they’re taking the time to make these stats for “discontinued” models available - for free.

Personally, I already have the indexes, and still use them, so I care little what GW does Legendwise (Though if they put up the stats for the marine with the Beamer/death gun, that’s something I don’t have now...). No matter what they do, they can’t take my Roughriders away from me.

However, I also don’t believe their “FOREVER” bit - come 9th edition, I don’t see them taking the time to update these again, and suspect they’ll drop off the website a few months after release of a new edition.

**Backspacehacker**

It's not that I want the game the way it used to be, it's that the way I played and enjoyed it is now being bared from from play little by little.

**vipoid**

Probably a fool's hope but do you think there's any chance of the Corsair units making it into legends?

As in, stuff like the Prince and Void Dreamer from 7th (not just the 2 units they currently have).

**Not Online!!!**

vipoid wrote:
Probably a fool's hope but do you think there's any chance of the Corsair units making it into legends?

As in, stuff like the Prince and Void Dreamer from 7th (not just the 2 units they currently have).

No.
Considering how butchered fw index lists got i do not think anything will happen.

**Karol**

Daedalus81 wrote:

I have shelves full of models I don't play with anymore. Doesn't mean I'm mad about it.

I don't play Warcraft 1 or 2. Or Starcraft. Or World of Warcraft. Or HOMM3.

That doesn't mean i'm pissed that I spent money on those things when the companies that made them put out new versions. And it doesn't mean when I might not enjoy newer versions as much that my rose tinted nostalgia glasses are telling me the truth about how good the games 'used to be'.

Let me guess, when you shelved those armies, you were able to start a new army right? Because if you army gets phased out, and you can't buy in to a new one, it becomes a rather different thing.

I wonder what GW is going to do with all the Grey Knight characters, all but one are resin or metal. And don't make those models anymore. So future Grey Knight codex are only going to have Voldus and NDK as HQ?

**Daedalus81**

Karol wrote:

Let me guess, when you shelved those armies, you were able to start a new army right? Because if you army gets phased out, and you can't buy in to a new one, it becomes a rather different thing.

I wonder what GW is going to do with all the Grey Knight characters, all but one are resin or metal. And don't make those models anymore. So future Grey Knight codex are only going to have Voldus and NDK as HQ?

The only army that has ever been "phased out" is squats. Banshees are also resin and they are getting new models.

**Ice_can**

Ishagu wrote:
Before people start crying bout having their factions "crapped" on, remember that the Legends announcement comes alongside the declaration of new campaign books that will bring new units to EVERY faction.

They only promised new rules not models

**Karol**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Karol wrote:

Let me guess, when you shelved those armies, you were able to start a new army right? Because if you army gets phased out, and you can't buy in to a new one, it becomes a rather different thing.

I wonder what GW is going to do with all the Grey Knight characters, all but one are resin or metal. And don't make those models anymore. So future Grey Knight codex are only going to have Voldus and NDK as HQ?

The only army that has ever been "phased out" is squats. Banshees are also resin and they are getting new models.

Cool, I didn't know that. Everyone keep scaring me with Grey knight being given no new rules anymore.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:
Ishagu wrote:
Before people start crying bout having their factions "crapped" on, remember that the Legends announcement comes alongside the declaration of new campaign books that will bring new units to EVERY faction.

They only promised new rules not models

Isn't there a rule that says you can't get new rules without new models?

**Daedalus81**

Karol wrote:

Cool, I didn't know that. Everyone keep scaring me with Grey knight being given no new rules anymore.

I don't think you need to be scared. Grey Knights occupy a very specific place in the lore. That GW has said in no uncertain terms that GK won't be Primaris'd, but that doesn't mean they're going away. It might even mean people worried about old marines going away might also be overblown.

Add onto that Inquisition getting the nod for Psychic Awakening makes me very unconcerned for the future of GK.

**Reemule**

I doubt they discontinue a fairly modern line like the GK.

**fraser1191**

Not Online!!! wrote:
fraser1191 wrote:
I think this is more opening up formats for 40k.

Now you have all of the current models legal for general play but now you'll have a legends format where everything is legal.

At least GW isn't coming out saying "yeah all those index units are never gonna be supported ever again, so use them as paper weights"

In essence it's a polite way of saying screw you your models count for nothing anymore.
Doesn't make it better, especially when we get 10000000000000000 marine books

How? They said they were gonna support it forever and on a case by case basis tournaments are gonna host them. Weren't indexes not aloud to be used at tournaments before?

**redboi**

Man am I so glad that Orks got 6 new monopose buggies instead of kits for all our core options that don't have any

**Daedalus81**

redboi wrote:
Man am I so glad that Orks got 6 new monopose buggies instead of kits for all our core options that don't have any

The ork buggies were old as dirt. Those were the best kits to get targeted.

**redboi**

Daedalus81 wrote:
redboi wrote:
Man am I so glad that Orks got 6 new monopose buggies instead of kits for all our core options that don't have any

The ork buggies were old as dirt. Those were the best kits to get targeted.

If they were dead set on doing buggies, most people would have been happier with a kit or two with interchangeable war gear options. 6 monopose kits and a worthless mek building was a touch overkill and unwanted

Orks have a bunch of options that are not even old, they are NON EXISTENT. We were told "well you can still convert them and use the index!". now that's gone. Buggies were a failure rules wise and model wise. I've never seen a single one fielded .