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Sarigar wrote: I will finally get the chance to play this weekend at a small ITC 3 round tourney. Now that 9th is announced, it further cemented me trying to run a non soup list. I still have 2 separate Craftworlds, technically, but it is easier for me as opposed to adding Harlequins and/Drukhari to the mix.
It is completely untested, but the army is nearly done (Vypers - still painting). Not expecting a lot, but I like the direction of the concept. List has been submitted, so changes to the list will likely not happen, but I will get into another event in June and would welcome feedback. If it is not obvious, I will spend one CP for the Windrider Host.
CRAFTWORLD:
Battalion, Outrider - Saim Hann
Spearhead - Expert Crafters and Masterful Shots
COMMAND POINTS:10
WARLORD: Autarch Skyrunner
2000 points.
Looks good, plenty of guns and manoeuvrability with saim Han, their bikes are easy to underestimate. Between the scatter lasers and star cannons they should be able to put in good work. I still remain unconvinced on nightspinners, too much swinginess in both shots and anti armour. Sometimes they're amazing, sometimes they whiff hard. But I'm very interested to see how you get on.
I am not a big fan of the random shot mechanic, but I've had reasonable success with running three in ITC, where there is more Los blocking on the tables I've played on. I've added the Autarch tommadd further efficiency in a way to help offset the swinginess of random shots during a game.
I've been running three on TTS recently, the out of line of sight shooting is very useful but I still find them a bit annoying! Sometimes they roll hot and they're absolutely amazing, sometimes when you really need them to perform you roll average to low shots and barely get a six to wound and not much happens at all! I figure they'll get the blast treatment in ninth and then they should be much better.
I've added 3 wraithlords with two shuriken cannons and a couple of wraithseers with wraithcannon to my list and it's worked out great so far. Swapping out static firepower like nightspinners for tanky wraiths charging out in midfield and either intercepting incoming threats or hitting their backfield units has proved invaluable. I found the purely shooting lists had big problems with fast melee/deepstriking units. The big wraiths are dirt cheap for T8 wounds and give the army real backbone. Still using expert crafters and masterful shots with vibro cannons and vypers with the missile launchers for long range firepower but shuriken like ignoring cover a lot too and expert crafters is great for melee with four attacks.
Sarigar wrote: Fast melee has been the big challenge with my heavy shooting lists. Deep strike was somewhat rectified by using 2-3 Hornets in a unit and Forewarned. I've wanted to use the Wraithknight as the counter assault element, but just not quite efficient enough. 500 points of Wraithlords/Wraithseers seems very interesting. That is a detachment of its own. Would you consider Expert Crafters and Wrath of the Dead if they were their own detachment?
I was hamstrung by a double battalion and I wanted to keep mono craftworld but I think wrath of the dead could definitely work. I also like the wraithseer ynarri cheese but I would have to make too many comprises to fit that in. I am using both vigilus detachments however which is fun.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bhazakhain wrote: I’m playing with an Ulthwe offshoot list (a strike force that has sort of decided to go it along, occasionally helping their craftworld but otherwise pursuing its agenda).
Still going guardian and support weapon heavy, am I crazy going with Hail of Doom and Martial Citizenry? I know I can swap MS for Expert Crafters and am on the fence about that but it’s really nice to have the guardian blobs have some real bite.
I think masterful shots and superior shurikens are probably the best bet for guardians. Foot autarch's are cheap enough to get the reroll ones. Expert crafters is pretty amazing with vibro cannons though if you are using them...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/02 14:19:39
Turnip Jedi wrote: I think masterful shots and superior shurikens are probably the best bet for guardians. Foot autarch's are cheap enough to get the reroll ones. Expert crafters is pretty amazing with vibro cannons though if you are using them...
Out of curiosity, how would an extra 4” help Guardians? A Primaris would move 6” the following turn and be within rapid fire range, unless you’re factoring in Fire and Fade?
The extra 4" doesn't seem like that much, because it isn't, but it does give you a minimum 24" threat range which is actually quite useful. Personally I wouldn't run guardians in significant numbers anyway but that's another matter.
kingheff wrote: I've added 3 wraithlords with two shuriken cannons and a couple of wraithseers with wraithcannon to my list and it's worked out great so far. Swapping out static firepower like nightspinners for tanky wraiths charging out in midfield and either intercepting incoming threats or hitting their backfield units has proved invaluable. I found the purely shooting lists had big problems with fast melee/deepstriking units. The big wraiths are dirt cheap for T8 wounds and give the army real backbone. Still using expert crafters and masterful shots with vibro cannons and vypers with the missile launchers for long range firepower but shuriken like ignoring cover a lot too and expert crafters is great for melee with four attacks.
Three Wraithlords and one Wraithseer is a poor kind of detachment.
These guys are meh, too slow and too less damage output.
They don't contribute to the kind of flow an Eldar army needs to function.
Funnily enough one of the games they did really well in was against another craftworlds list with three nightspinners, three CHE, a couple of falcons and a max squad of spears with storm guardians and characters on bikes if I remember correctly. He had been doing very well in a TTS league with his list so I figured I would be in for a tough time.
He had first turn and pushed forward with his spears, Che's and falcons but failed quicken on his spears which left them in range of a counter charge from my wraiths which meant he had to divert quite a bit of firepower into the wraiths that he couldn't doom because we were playing cagey because of trying to avoid denies. He killed some stuff but not enough of the wraiths who stepped out and chopped up his spears before pushing on to threaten the midfield tanks before pushing on to take down his storm guardians with shuriken and pushing his spinners into the open where I could take them out. It was a very good and close game and the T8 wounds were what won me the game.
According to mathhammer three linked fireprisms do a bit over four wounds to a lost shroud wraithseer, they're not quite brohammer leviathan tough but they're not far off!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do wonder if the wraithseer may lose the character keyword in any updates, he does throw some relics/warlord trait stuff out of whack
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/04 17:43:13
I'm thinking at the moment I'll still be building multiple detachments since I value the units I want more than CP. It all depends on the cost overall I guess.
I don't think Ynarri are great for wraith heavy lists, there is too much good stuff from craftworlds you miss out on.
Here's hoping Ynarri get a proper rework in 9th.
I kept going back and forth with spinners, ignore cover made them viable but I still find they whiff too often for my liking.
The main thing in their favour is the fact that they can hide and shoot hiding stuff and that they were dirt cheap. I
still think the falcon is a better tank because it had reliable damage for basically the same cost and I can hide a squad of avengers in there.
I am unsure about the smaller board size regards our faction because our manouvrability means we can get to shoot what we want easier but we can't run away as effectively. The slower wraith units should benefit too, which is nice.
I think wraithlords look very good now, I've liked them since the start of 8th but with the changes they look very useful.
I think counter charge units are going to be essential with the smaller board size and wraithlords with guns can shoot and move without penalty and either intercept dangerous melee threats or threaten big units with their melee.
One thing I am interested to see is the weapon points changes, missile launchers look amazing with the blast rules so I expect those will go up, probably the same for scatter lasers and star cannons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/10 07:53:31
Isn't the change that flyers don't get destroyed if they fly off? Assuming that you can keep on the table, which as an eldar flyer isn't a big problem, I assume you can just use them as now?
I wouldn't get your hopes up on that one, I'm pretty sure he means using asurman to buff them as they do now, looks like vague writing rather than a hint of a rules adjustment.
As things stand three squads of avengers in falcons works out well for an expert crafters battalion, who knows what 9th will bring but I doubt non mechanised infantry will be it.
I had good success with vypers at the end of 8th, as long as the price stays low they should still be good.
Not sure I agree with everything here but definitely worth a watch.
https://youtu.be/OXzeFg5q7uQ
Nick does like to play weird style lists so what works for him doesn't always work for everyone.
I've been thinking about serpents packed with axe blades for our best midfield grabbers and holders, but as with everything until we see the new points it's hard to make many judgements.
Possible both will be good. Lack of fly and, relative, lack of speed looks the biggest weaknesses but being able to take two bigger guns and the invulnerable are definite benefits.
The biggest potential drawback I can see is their lack of speed. If there's a lot of line of sight blocking they could get outmanoeuvred unless there's a nice place they can for and fade back behind. I think it'll take a few games playing with the new terrain rules will show whether non fly units lose out on too much.
I've got nine vibro cannons done so I'm hoping slower guns can be viable too!
The smaller board size could make d-cannons interesting for vehicles in the midfield though.
I've had a fun thought about avenging strikes Dire avengers.
Obviously there's the max squad in a serpent and waiting for an explosion to lose one or two but how about cheesing the new coherency? Just put one out of coherency at the end of the unit and you can hide first turn, lose one from coherency and profit from that beautiful +1 to hit and wound for the rest of the game.
Sixty in a death star around Asurman looks like a lot of fun!
Have they changed the super heavy auxillary detachment? The wraithknight got the traits in 8th, I thought it was just things like guard super heavies didn't get the traits because it was specifically mentioned in their codex?
kingheff wrote: Have they changed the super heavy auxillary detachment? The wraithknight got the traits in 8th, I thought it was just things like guard super heavies didn't get the traits because it was specifically mentioned in their codex?
Yes. It states Super Heavy Auxiliaries, Auxiliary, and Fortification detachments never gain Detachment abilities. Craftworld traits fall under this category.
Ah, didn't realise they'd updated the detachment rules like that. The wraithknight really isn't looking like it's in a great spot.
