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Ice_can wrote:

How exactly are you defining squishy here?

Guardsman for their points are definataly less squishy than
Kabalites
Grots
Kroot

Fairly sure arguments can be made for
Guardians
Firewarriors
Ork Boys


How many of those units are capped at 10 models per selection?
Other armies either get more models or less squishy


More models OR less squishy. As far as I know guard are the only ones stuck at 10 and only 10 while still being squishy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/07 17:06:16


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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On moon miranda.

Guard have always kind of thrown off stuff that way. They're a horde army, but generally don't have "horde" units of 20/30+ models (save for Conscripts and combined squads gimmicks in various editions), rather they have hordes of small units, with potentially several dozen units of 3/6/10 models that all usually cost 30-70pts. This hasn't hasn't always played nice with FoC's, Kill Points, Detachments, etc and GW often seems to forget that.

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topaxygouroun i wrote:
Well I'm sitting on my poor little converted beautiful vindicators, and to be honest they have started getting better and better with stealth buffs here and there going through out of nowhere.

First it got up to d6 shots.
Then it got Blast.
Then it got move + shoot with no penalty.
Now it got the siege shields back for 2+ save or 1+ while in cover, which means it saves lascannons on a 4+ now.

All while still floating relatively low on the 135 pt range.

A man can dream that at some point I will be able to put three vindis down on the table again, look my opponent in the eye and dare them to try and come midfield.

A man can dream.
This sounds really fun to play in a BT list.
   
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Ice_can wrote:
Guardsman for their points are definataly less squishy than


'For their points' isn't directly relevant to how many ObSec bodies can be crammed into a single Battalion, or how easy they are to keep alive. A full Battalion of 60 Guardsmen are less durable than 60 Fire Warriors and so have a harder time holding objectives.

You can use the points saved to take a second Battalion with more Guardsmen, but now that also means taking additional HQ choices as taxes (and you max out at 3 CCs) plus losing 3CP, which is a very significant cost.

So it goes beyond durability for their raw points, because there's a secondary cost associated with being FOC-inefficient.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/07 17:36:20


 
   
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 BlaxicanX wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
Well I'm sitting on my poor little converted beautiful vindicators, and to be honest they have started getting better and better with stealth buffs here and there going through out of nowhere.

First it got up to d6 shots.
Then it got Blast.
Then it got move + shoot with no penalty.
Now it got the siege shields back for 2+ save or 1+ while in cover, which means it saves lascannons on a 4+ now.

All while still floating relatively low on the 135 pt range.

A man can dream that at some point I will be able to put three vindis down on the table again, look my opponent in the eye and dare them to try and come midfield.

A man can dream.
This sounds really fun to play in a BT list.


im so glad the vindicator keeps getting better, its my favorite "rhino" chassis tank and my night lords are already enjoying my first one. Might get some more to control the midfield even more.

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 Vaktathi wrote:
Guard have always kind of thrown off stuff that way. They're a horde army, but generally don't have "horde" units of 20/30+ models (save for Conscripts and combined squads gimmicks in various editions), rather they have hordes of small units, with potentially several dozen units of 3/6/10 models that all usually cost 30-70pts. This hasn't hasn't always played nice with FoC's, Kill Points, Detachments, etc and GW often seems to forget that.


Right, but my point is while point for point they may compare well to boys and Fire warriors and what not, FOC for FOC they don't. Ork Boys can field what, 1500ish points of ObSec in a Batallion if they want to? Guard are hard capped at what? 300ish? Its why people Loyal 32'ed in the past edition. They got CP cheap that way. Now that CP goes the other direction, guard are paying CP to field as much ObSec as other armies. They need 5 batallions to field 1500 points of ObSec. what does that cost them? All 12 CP plus 400% more in HQs? or 7CP and a load of mandatory FA, HS, Elite, and more HQ? Those are obviously the extremes but the illustrate the issue. A Space Marine army doing just bare bones 3x5 Intercessors is also 300ish points of Obj Secured, but it's a far sturdier 300 points of ObSec, 3x5 Scout squads for the SM Toy lists are 210 and voluntary minimums instead of the top end ceiling. Space Marines can (currently) top out at about 1200 points of ObSec per Bat, Custodes can hit something like 2400 points. CWE somewhere around 1100, Drukhari just over 700, Tau 504, and on and on. I think the second lowest cap is Tau - and I imagine Tau can take a Brigade as easily as Guard can, and still be almost double their ObSec.

From what I hear Tau and IG are two of the armies struggling the most. I'd guess this is one of the reasons why. I'd have to game it out, but anyone else think focus firing the Infantry squads and any ObSec Spearhead Leman Russ early and often is game over for IG? How hard is it to wipe out ~300ish points of Guard Infantry and 500 or so points of Leman Russ in the first half of the game?

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Why are we stuck using Battalions? Couldn't the guard player bring a brigade?
   
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 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
Well I'm sitting on my poor little converted beautiful vindicators, and to be honest they have started getting better and better with stealth buffs here and there going through out of nowhere.

First it got up to d6 shots.
Then it got Blast.
Then it got move + shoot with no penalty.
Now it got the siege shields back for 2+ save or 1+ while in cover, which means it saves lascannons on a 4+ now.

All while still floating relatively low on the 135 pt range.

A man can dream that at some point I will be able to put three vindis down on the table again, look my opponent in the eye and dare them to try and come midfield.

A man can dream.
This sounds really fun to play in a BT list.


im so glad the vindicator keeps getting better, its my favorite "rhino" chassis tank and my night lords are already enjoying my first one. Might get some more to control the midfield even more.

Since it got buffed to d6 shots all the time I've been using them a lot. They more than pull their weight. Now with the loss of rr all hits though not nearly as good.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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pothocboots wrote:
Why are we stuck using Battalions? Couldn't the guard player bring a brigade?


I mentioned that, at Brigade, the Guard player has 600 points of ObSec compared to the Tau Batallion's what was it? 700? And the Tau can probably brigade just as easily as the IG. The SM player making a Batallion into a full Company i.e. 6 Tacs, 2 Assaults, 2 Devs and a couple HQ's is going to have something like 1200 points of ObSec compared to the IG Brigade's 600. IG are in a world of hurt if/when the meta shifts hard to ObSec. They're probably already in a world of hurt if people focus fire what little ObSec they have anyway.

Edit for correction: Tau Batallion is 500, their Brigade is 1000, it was the Drukhari that are 700/1400.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/07 17:55:25


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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Atleast you get obsec tanks Tau dont and firewarriors or kroot vaporized in 8th and 9th is even more lethal.
   
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 Xenomancers wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:


im so glad the vindicator keeps getting better, its my favorite "rhino" chassis tank and my night lords are already enjoying my first one. Might get some more to control the midfield even more.

Since it got buffed to d6 shots all the time I've been using them a lot. They more than pull their weight. Now with the loss of rr all hits though not nearly as good.



eh, i never had rerolls of any kind on it and it still performs super well.

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500
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Breton wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
No way dude. They can include 90 infantry and vets and a battalion. In a brigade they can field 150. That is already more than enough bodies. Charging for detachments is a great way to balance slots. It's kind of nice to have to use other slots than heavy support.

They should probably just add a lord of war slot to the brigade to give you a way around the SHA.


They can only fit 60 infantry with ObSec. In a mission with six objectives they get stretched thin. Sure every army only gets six troop choices, but few of the others are limited to 10 squishy models per choice. Other armies either get more models or less squishy. I suppose another option is remove the upper limit on troops.


Obj sec is good but overrated. Many lists that placed at GTs so far had little amount of them. Last Sororitas list had only 5 girls, some ork lists had just a few troops despite being an army that can spam lots of them quite effectively.

Hence 60 obj sec models, which are also very undercosted, is certainly quite a lot. Most of the times more than the AM player needs.

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Breton wrote:
Cynista wrote:
Making Monolith's LoW isn't even fluffy,
It’s not unfluffy either. In the past the monolith has had some LOW survivability. But I was talking about the SHA det in general - as the post I was replying to and quoted was also about.

that's the really stupid part. Monolith's are a mainstay of any Necron invasion force and are not rare, relatively speaking. The artwork depicts dozens of them supporting troops

The T. Vault on the other hand is rare, and deserves its LoW classification.

Wasn't replying to you. I'm just vexed that they made that decision. It's a real feel bad for a lot of people.

And it is unfluffy. For almost 20 years the Monolith has been Heavy Support and they have incentivised you to take multiple of them. It's the Necron main battle tank in both the fluff and the artwork. And now suddenly it's a LoW, just because. Honestly it's ridiculous and I won't hear any apologising for a stupid decision on their part.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/07 18:35:06


 
   
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It does feel like a stupid decision. They didn't need 3 LoWs. The obelisk and the monolith in particular don't feel well distinguished.
   
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GW will likely fix at least a few of these deliberate mistakes in the next CA, hoping to force people to pay an annual 35,or now probably 40$, shakedown to keep their armies up to date.

It's kind of like a video game maker putting flaws in his game then charged players for the patches to fix them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/07 18:52:56


I've never watched a whole episode of Firefly. 
   
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Monolith probably just needs another ability added on saying if you take one you gain 1 CP back.


Take 3 monoliths and your SHD is free, but you dont have many points for other stuff.

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They're up to some sort of scheme. They make and release a new monolith model but then make the monolith so expensive that no one will by it.

I'm sure there will be a "surprise" fix soon that will make people want the monolith.

Along these lines now that the rule that made 3 doomscythes a popular choice has sold all of them it's likely to....

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/07 19:08:38


I've never watched a whole episode of Firefly. 
   
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Breton wrote:
pothocboots wrote:
Why are we stuck using Battalions? Couldn't the guard player bring a brigade?


I mentioned that, at Brigade, the Guard player has 600 points of ObSec compared to the Tau Batallion's what was it? 700? And the Tau can probably brigade just as easily as the IG. The SM player making a Batallion into a full Company i.e. 6 Tacs, 2 Assaults, 2 Devs and a couple HQ's is going to have something like 1200 points of ObSec compared to the IG Brigade's 600. IG are in a world of hurt if/when the meta shifts hard to ObSec. They're probably already in a world of hurt if people focus fire what little ObSec they have anyway.

Edit for correction: Tau Batallion is 500, their Brigade is 1000, it was the Drukhari that are 700/1400.


Are Conscripts not ObSec? Guard player can take as many conscripts as an ork player can take Ork boyz.

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I don't think we could have gotten the stats we want for a Monolith without going to LOW status. As it stands. For the Price it's better than any Imperial knight. Titan killer weapons are going to murder it - standard AT like lascannons are going to struggle to kill it.

Lets just go over how much healing you can get outta this puppy.
It is <Dynasty> and has command protocols - So if Szarekhan it can get a plus 1 to it's living metal - so 2 turns of 2 Wounds (Szar warlord trait) healed at the start of the turn.

Plus you can roll with a technomancer with canoptic cloak (admitably you want the control node but this can do fine) to heal another d3 every turn

Plus you can roll with a canoptek spider with fabricator claw to heal another d3.

So if you so plan - you can heal for 8 - 16 wounds for the first 2 turns.

I don't believe any stratagems can enhance this but we are talking some serious healing here. A knight can't do that. Knights don't have 2+ saves ether. So while knights can get a 4++ / which they can't have in melee. The 2+ is always on. Most the time you will be getting a 5+ from that 2+ anyways for the most part.

As long as you can build an army to make use of those 2 support units in other ways - I think that could be quite effective.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/07 19:23:42


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
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SemperMortis wrote:
Breton wrote:
pothocboots wrote:
Why are we stuck using Battalions? Couldn't the guard player bring a brigade?


I mentioned that, at Brigade, the Guard player has 600 points of ObSec compared to the Tau Batallion's what was it? 700? And the Tau can probably brigade just as easily as the IG. The SM player making a Batallion into a full Company i.e. 6 Tacs, 2 Assaults, 2 Devs and a couple HQ's is going to have something like 1200 points of ObSec compared to the IG Brigade's 600. IG are in a world of hurt if/when the meta shifts hard to ObSec. They're probably already in a world of hurt if people focus fire what little ObSec they have anyway.

Edit for correction: Tau Batallion is 500, their Brigade is 1000, it was the Drukhari that are 700/1400.


Are Conscripts not ObSec? Guard player can take as many conscripts as an ork player can take Ork boyz.


Not very good ones by the looks of them, and not the bread and butter like an Infantry squad or a Boyz mob. Imagine making an infantry ork list only being able to take 10 boys or 20 grots per troop slot.

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 Xenomancers wrote:
I don't think we could have gotten the stats we want for a Monolith without going to LOW status. As it stands. For the Price it's better than any Imperial knight. Titan killer weapons are going to murder it - standard AT like lascannons are going to struggle to kill it.

Lets just go over how much healing you can get outta this puppy.
It is <Dynasty> and has command protocols - So if Szarekhan it can get a plus 1 to it's living metal - so 2 turns of 2 Wounds (Szar warlord trait) healed at the start of the turn.

Plus you can roll with a technomancer with canoptic cloak (admitably you want the control node but this can do fine) to heal another d3 every turn

Plus you can roll with a canoptek spider with fabricator claw to heal another d3.

So if you so plan - you can heal for 8 - 16 wounds for the first 2 turns.

I don't believe any stratagems can enhance this but we are talking some serious healing here. A knight can't do that. Knights don't have 2+ saves ether. So while knights can get a 4++ / which they can't have in melee. The 2+ is always on. Most the time you will be getting a 5+ from that 2+ anyways for the most part.

As long as you can build an army to make use of those 2 support units in other ways - I think that could be quite effective.


You make a good case, sir. Still you're talking a lot of points to keep a cryptek and spyder near it. OTOh the monolith is so...monolithic in size you can hide them behind it.

Not having read the dex yet why would this only work for 2 turns? Those new protocol rules? And I see it could get 8 wounds back, 2 +2d3, but how does that double to 16? Something in the dex i haven't seen yet? Aoso your cryptek would need a couple murderbuckets with him to deal with those pesky snipers...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/07 19:51:52


I've never watched a whole episode of Firefly. 
   
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 Matt Swain wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
I don't think we could have gotten the stats we want for a Monolith without going to LOW status. As it stands. For the Price it's better than any Imperial knight. Titan killer weapons are going to murder it - standard AT like lascannons are going to struggle to kill it.

Lets just go over how much healing you can get outta this puppy.
It is <Dynasty> and has command protocols - So if Szarekhan it can get a plus 1 to it's living metal - so 2 turns of 2 Wounds (Szar warlord trait) healed at the start of the turn.

Plus you can roll with a technomancer with canoptic cloak (admitably you want the control node but this can do fine) to heal another d3 every turn

Plus you can roll with a canoptek spider with fabricator claw to heal another d3.

So if you so plan - you can heal for 8 - 16 wounds for the first 2 turns.

I don't believe any stratagems can enhance this but we are talking some serious healing here. A knight can't do that. Knights don't have 2+ saves ether. So while knights can get a 4++ / which they can't have in melee. The 2+ is always on. Most the time you will be getting a 5+ from that 2+ anyways for the most part.

As long as you can build an army to make use of those 2 support units in other ways - I think that could be quite effective.


You make a good case, sir. Still you're talking a lot of points to keep a cryptek and spyder near it. OTOh the monolith is so...monolithic in size you can hide them behind it.

Not having read the dex yet why would this only work for 2 turns? Those new protocol rules? And I see it could get 8 wounds back, 2 +2d3, but how does that double to 16? Something in the dex i haven't seen yet? Aoso your cryptek would need a couple murderbuckets with him to deal with those pesky snipers...


Doesn't SHA also have some sort of Faction/Doctrine/whatever nullifier for the unit in the Auxilliary det?

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Breton wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Breton wrote:
pothocboots wrote:
Why are we stuck using Battalions? Couldn't the guard player bring a brigade?


I mentioned that, at Brigade, the Guard player has 600 points of ObSec compared to the Tau Batallion's what was it? 700? And the Tau can probably brigade just as easily as the IG. The SM player making a Batallion into a full Company i.e. 6 Tacs, 2 Assaults, 2 Devs and a couple HQ's is going to have something like 1200 points of ObSec compared to the IG Brigade's 600. IG are in a world of hurt if/when the meta shifts hard to ObSec. They're probably already in a world of hurt if people focus fire what little ObSec they have anyway.

Edit for correction: Tau Batallion is 500, their Brigade is 1000, it was the Drukhari that are 700/1400.


Are Conscripts not ObSec? Guard player can take as many conscripts as an ork player can take Ork boyz.


Not very good ones by the looks of them, and not the bread and butter like an Infantry squad or a Boyz mob. Imagine making an infantry ork list only being able to take 10 boys or 20 grots per troop slot.


That is irrelevant. Your argument was that Guard players can't do something that Tau/orkz etc can. But that isn't true, its just less efficient. Just like SM players can take 60 Heavy Intercessors but they aren't likely to because they don't want to spend 1,680pts on ObSec troops instead of taking other, cheaper options.

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 Matt Swain wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
I don't think we could have gotten the stats we want for a Monolith without going to LOW status. As it stands. For the Price it's better than any Imperial knight. Titan killer weapons are going to murder it - standard AT like lascannons are going to struggle to kill it.

Lets just go over how much healing you can get outta this puppy.
It is <Dynasty> and has command protocols - So if Szarekhan it can get a plus 1 to it's living metal - so 2 turns of 2 Wounds (Szar warlord trait) healed at the start of the turn.

Plus you can roll with a technomancer with canoptic cloak (admitably you want the control node but this can do fine) to heal another d3 every turn

Plus you can roll with a canoptek spider with fabricator claw to heal another d3.

So if you so plan - you can heal for 8 - 16 wounds for the first 2 turns.

I don't believe any stratagems can enhance this but we are talking some serious healing here. A knight can't do that. Knights don't have 2+ saves ether. So while knights can get a 4++ / which they can't have in melee. The 2+ is always on. Most the time you will be getting a 5+ from that 2+ anyways for the most part.

As long as you can build an army to make use of those 2 support units in other ways - I think that could be quite effective.


You make a good case, sir. Still you're talking a lot of points to keep a cryptek and spyder near it. OTOh the monolith is so...monolithic in size you can hide them behind it.

Not having read the dex yet why would this only work for 2 turns? Those new protocol rules? And I see it could get 8 wounds back, 2 +2d3, but how does that double to 16? Something in the dex i haven't seen yet? Aoso your cryptek would need a couple murderbuckets with him to deal with those pesky snipers...


Yeah one of the new protocols is 2 wounds from Living metal and a Szarken trick lets you use that protocol twice.

I think he's saying a potential of 4 wounds back from living metal + 2d3 over 2 turns (if you magically got max rolls) = 4 + 12 = 16

But Re. the scarab and technomancer healing the monolith - isn't there some wording about preventing a vehicle from being repaired twice in the same turn? Or is it only if it's the exact same ability name??
   
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 Xenomancers wrote:
They more than pull their weight. Now with the loss of rr all hits though not nearly as good.


For sure. I barely could keep RR1s on them, but I sure as heck would heal, prescience, and ward them. Now I wonder if they'll even be eligible for those spells in the future. Thousand Sons vehicles might end up hurting the most with no vehicle buffing character to be had.

   
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 Matt Swain wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
I don't think we could have gotten the stats we want for a Monolith without going to LOW status. As it stands. For the Price it's better than any Imperial knight. Titan killer weapons are going to murder it - standard AT like lascannons are going to struggle to kill it.

Lets just go over how much healing you can get outta this puppy.
It is <Dynasty> and has command protocols - So if Szarekhan it can get a plus 1 to it's living metal - so 2 turns of 2 Wounds (Szar warlord trait) healed at the start of the turn.

Plus you can roll with a technomancer with canoptic cloak (admitably you want the control node but this can do fine) to heal another d3 every turn

Plus you can roll with a canoptek spider with fabricator claw to heal another d3.

So if you so plan - you can heal for 8 - 16 wounds for the first 2 turns.

I don't believe any stratagems can enhance this but we are talking some serious healing here. A knight can't do that. Knights don't have 2+ saves ether. So while knights can get a 4++ / which they can't have in melee. The 2+ is always on. Most the time you will be getting a 5+ from that 2+ anyways for the most part.

As long as you can build an army to make use of those 2 support units in other ways - I think that could be quite effective.


You make a good case, sir. Still you're talking a lot of points to keep a cryptek and spyder near it. OTOh the monolith is so...monolithic in size you can hide them behind it.

Not having read the dex yet why would this only work for 2 turns? Those new protocol rules? And I see it could get 8 wounds back, 2 +2d3, but how does that double to 16? Something in the dex i haven't seen yet? Aoso your cryptek would need a couple murderbuckets with him to deal with those pesky snipers...
Szarekhan warlord trait allows you to pick an additional command protocol and it can be one that is already selected. So you can choose your main double protocol ability. Which will also net you a reroll on each reanimation roll you make that turn too (This has potential to be big or useless - Still I love any ability that gives me models back).

For your healing cryptec you can just make him immune to being shot at unless hes the closest for a cryptec ability. I think it's 20 points. Not sure how much points you want to sink into this guy.IMO you are probably better off just taking more spyders with claws because eventually 1 will die. Then you can focus your cryptec on buffing canoptek units with control node (which it might be worth making him unsnipable) and load up on doom stalkers and spyders. Personally I am very happy with this codex. I'm going to really enjoy list crafting and coming up with ideas for the next month and getting some games in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/07 20:41:10


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in it
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SemperMortis wrote:
Breton wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Breton wrote:
pothocboots wrote:
Why are we stuck using Battalions? Couldn't the guard player bring a brigade?


I mentioned that, at Brigade, the Guard player has 600 points of ObSec compared to the Tau Batallion's what was it? 700? And the Tau can probably brigade just as easily as the IG. The SM player making a Batallion into a full Company i.e. 6 Tacs, 2 Assaults, 2 Devs and a couple HQ's is going to have something like 1200 points of ObSec compared to the IG Brigade's 600. IG are in a world of hurt if/when the meta shifts hard to ObSec. They're probably already in a world of hurt if people focus fire what little ObSec they have anyway.

Edit for correction: Tau Batallion is 500, their Brigade is 1000, it was the Drukhari that are 700/1400.


Are Conscripts not ObSec? Guard player can take as many conscripts as an ork player can take Ork boyz.


Not very good ones by the looks of them, and not the bread and butter like an Infantry squad or a Boyz mob. Imagine making an infantry ork list only being able to take 10 boys or 20 grots per troop slot.


That is irrelevant. Your argument was that Guard players can't do something that Tau/orkz etc can. But that isn't true, its just less efficient. Just like SM players can take 60 Heavy Intercessors but they aren't likely to because they don't want to spend 1,680pts on ObSec troops instead of taking other, cheaper options.


Agree.
You said that your problem is not quality but quantity.
You can field 180 conscripts in a single battalion, which is one of the highest among the game factions. You don't get to say that they are not as efficient as IS. Your own point that you were trying to make precludes that.
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
 Matt Swain wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
I don't think we could have gotten the stats we want for a Monolith without going to LOW status. As it stands. For the Price it's better than any Imperial knight. Titan killer weapons are going to murder it - standard AT like lascannons are going to struggle to kill it.

Lets just go over how much healing you can get outta this puppy.
It is <Dynasty> and has command protocols - So if Szarekhan it can get a plus 1 to it's living metal - so 2 turns of 2 Wounds (Szar warlord trait) healed at the start of the turn.

Plus you can roll with a technomancer with canoptic cloak (admitably you want the control node but this can do fine) to heal another d3 every turn

Plus you can roll with a canoptek spider with fabricator claw to heal another d3.

So if you so plan - you can heal for 8 - 16 wounds for the first 2 turns.

I don't believe any stratagems can enhance this but we are talking some serious healing here. A knight can't do that. Knights don't have 2+ saves ether. So while knights can get a 4++ / which they can't have in melee. The 2+ is always on. Most the time you will be getting a 5+ from that 2+ anyways for the most part.

As long as you can build an army to make use of those 2 support units in other ways - I think that could be quite effective.


You make a good case, sir. Still you're talking a lot of points to keep a cryptek and spyder near it. OTOh the monolith is so...monolithic in size you can hide them behind it.

Not having read the dex yet why would this only work for 2 turns? Those new protocol rules? And I see it could get 8 wounds back, 2 +2d3, but how does that double to 16? Something in the dex i haven't seen yet? Aoso your cryptek would need a couple murderbuckets with him to deal with those pesky snipers...


Yeah one of the new protocols is 2 wounds from Living metal and a Szarken trick lets you use that protocol twice.

I think he's saying a potential of 4 wounds back from living metal + 2d3 over 2 turns (if you magically got max rolls) = 4 + 12 = 16

But Re. the scarab and technomancer healing the monolith - isn't there some wording about preventing a vehicle from being repaired twice in the same turn? Or is it only if it's the exact same ability name??


Ok, I'm not sure you could use a spyde and a cryptek to give it 2d3 a turn. In 8e you could do that to a CCB because it was a character and a vehicle, so the spyd could heal it as a vehicle while the crypty healed it as a character.

Now, maybe, under the new rules (Might buy the dex to support a store and get a digital version later all I know know is what i saw on video reviews.) if the crypty or spyd turns the 1 point regen on living metal to 1d3 and the Srazaken dynasty protocol doubles the living metal healing maybe it could double it to 2d3.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/07 23:54:32


I've never watched a whole episode of Firefly. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

It'd be nice if the Platoon structure for Guard came back. That was a defining feature of that army for such a long time. Failing that, put our commanders back in their command squads please.

On the subject of the Monolith, I keep seeing mentions of how durable it is - compared to Knight levels - except it doesn't have an invul save. It has Living Metal, I presume, to heal a whole 1 wound per turn (wow!)... and what else?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/08 00:06:48


   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It'd be nice if the Platoon structure for Guard came back. That was a defining feature of that army for such a long time. Failing that, put our commanders back in their command squads please.

On the subject of the Monolith, I keep seeing mentions of how durable it is - compared to Knight levels - except it doesn't have an invul save. It has Living Metal, I presume, to heal a whole 1 wound per turn (wow!)... and what else?



Well, it has 24W (Almost typed HP there. ) t8 and a 2+ save so even the go to tank buster, a lascannon, will allow it a 5+ armor save. A tomb spyder cn add 1d3 wound regeneration.

Some spess muhreen weapons, notably hellblaster and metla, have -4 saves but some of the hellblasters have s7, lower than the monoliths T. A monolith can get a 5++ i think if you have a chronomancer near it. Some dynasties and protocols might buff it's suitability a bit too.

I've never watched a whole episode of Firefly. 
   
 
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