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the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
feeling limited by your builds mind you is pretty normal (sadly) for 40k. although there's some positive signs that GW is moving towards better internal balance, both space marines and sisters of battle seem to have a varity of builds you can do. How's the necrons internal balance?

Seems pretty trash as far as I can tell, tbh.

A lot of options within the necron codex are total non-options. There's a lot of "this unit can take 1 of 3 extremely similar guns in terms of role, all cost the same, one does more damage vs 99% of targets. oh BTW here's a stratagem that only works with the one option that's already the best."

........ when did necrons get intercessors?

BrianDavion wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
feeling limited by your builds mind you is pretty normal (sadly) for 40k. although there's some positive signs that GW is moving towards better internal balance, both space marines and sisters of battle seem to have a varity of builds you can do. How's the necrons internal balance?

Seems pretty trash as far as I can tell, tbh.

A lot of options within the necron codex are total non-options. There's a lot of "this unit can take 1 of 3 extremely similar guns in terms of role, all cost the same, one does more damage vs 99% of targets. oh BTW here's a stratagem that only works with the one option that's already the best."

........ when did necrons get intercessors?

Have I been imagining all these different competitive lists with different chapters taking all three intercessor weapon options?

Just having multiple competitive lists with different core unit compositions and different subfaction traits is part of what makes marines so absurdly privileged in the current meta. The fact we're even talking about needing to separate the winrates of Salamanders and Dark Angels and Imp Fists and Iron Hands and the fact that all of them are even meaningfully present in the competitive meta should be an indicator of how crazy dominant marines are within the current meta structure.

40% of players are bringing marines and so many of them are bringing different gak and winning. The best tactics to beat marines are to tailor your list to fight marines WITH MARINES.

Inb4 demanding up-to-the-moment current codex competitive data be the only thing considered when discussing the power of marines that have been top of the meta for a year and a half.

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
feeling limited by your builds mind you is pretty normal (sadly) for 40k. although there's some positive signs that GW is moving towards better internal balance, both space marines and sisters of battle seem to have a varity of builds you can do. How's the necrons internal balance?

Seems pretty trash as far as I can tell, tbh.

A lot of options within the necron codex are total non-options. There's a lot of "this unit can take 1 of 3 extremely similar guns in terms of role, all cost the same, one does more damage vs 99% of targets. oh BTW here's a stratagem that only works with the one option that's already the best."

........ when did necrons get intercessors?

Have I been imagining all these different competitive lists with different chapters taking all three intercessor weapon options?

Just having multiple competitive lists with different core unit compositions and different subfaction traits is part of what makes marines so absurdly privileged in the current meta. The fact we're even talking about needing to separate the winrates of Salamanders and Dark Angels and Imp Fists and Iron Hands and the fact that all of them are even meaningfully present in the competitive meta should be an indicator of how crazy dominant marines are within the current meta structure.

40% of players are bringing marines and so many of them are bringing different gak and winning. The best tactics to beat marines are to tailor your list to fight marines WITH MARINES.

Inb4 demanding up-to-the-moment current codex competitive data be the only thing considered when discussing the power of marines that have been top of the meta for a year and a half.

it was a referance to 8.0 intercessors dude. when you basicly had the mathmaticly superior bolt rifle and then the option of paying extra points for the other options which where mathamaticly inferior

BrianDavion wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
feeling limited by your builds mind you is pretty normal (sadly) for 40k. although there's some positive signs that GW is moving towards better internal balance, both space marines and sisters of battle seem to have a varity of builds you can do. How's the necrons internal balance?

Seems pretty trash as far as I can tell, tbh.

A lot of options within the necron codex are total non-options. There's a lot of "this unit can take 1 of 3 extremely similar guns in terms of role, all cost the same, one does more damage vs 99% of targets. oh BTW here's a stratagem that only works with the one option that's already the best."

........ when did necrons get intercessors?

Have I been imagining all these different competitive lists with different chapters taking all three intercessor weapon options?

Just having multiple competitive lists with different core unit compositions and different subfaction traits is part of what makes marines so absurdly privileged in the current meta. The fact we're even talking about needing to separate the winrates of Salamanders and Dark Angels and Imp Fists and Iron Hands and the fact that all of them are even meaningfully present in the competitive meta should be an indicator of how crazy dominant marines are within the current meta structure.

40% of players are bringing marines and so many of them are bringing different gak and winning. The best tactics to beat marines are to tailor your list to fight marines WITH MARINES.

Inb4 demanding up-to-the-moment current codex competitive data be the only thing considered when discussing the power of marines that have been top of the meta for a year and a half.

it was a referance to 8.0 intercessors dude. when you basicly had the mathmaticly superior bolt rifle and then the option of paying extra points for the other options which where mathamaticly inferior

Sure, the same non-options existed for necrons since the 8th ed index too.

The difference is, the marines have since been buffed, re-balanced and reimagined in order to ensure close to every option is viable and relevant.

Everybody else is still rolling with mostly index-era stuff, and Necrons did not get nearly the same level of base statline reconfiguration as the marines did. It shows incredibly obviously in comparisons between units' weapon options.

You can have:

Heav 1, S10, AP-4, damage 3d3
or
Heavy 3d3, S7 Ap-1 Damage 1

Same cost, same model, hmmm, should I take the gun that can potentially one-shot a tank, or the gun that will kill 2 ork boyz.

Or you can have:

Assault 4 24", S5 AP- D1, nat six to hit scores 2 hits
Rapid Fire 2 30", S5 AP-2 D1

On a platform that has 14" move and FLY just in case you were worried the range would matter.

Or maybe

Assault 1 12" S5 AP-3 D2 and melee A3 S5 AP-3 D2
Pistol 2 12" S6 AP- D1 and melee A4 S5 AP-3 D1

Hmm do I want the one that does less damage, or the one that does more damage?

BrianDavion wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Sisters have zero internal balance.

It's basically Codex: Bloody Rose Repentia with other stuff and some miracle dice generation because you can only take 3 of those.

Funny, I seem to recall hearing more then a few lists designed around the argent shroud and retributors.

I'd love to see such a lists (or any Sisters list abstaining from Bloody Rose) with a decent tournament performance. Maybe I just missed them?

If you have a link, please share.

 Charistoph wrote:
Man I hope so, or someone needs to learn the history of Space Marines.

I learned all about it in biology class. When Mommy Primarch and Daddy Primarch love each other very much, they get a new baby Primarch, and that's how you get a new Space Marine chapter.


(More seriously though, that's why Primarch suck. You can't make your own primarch, there is a limited set of them, and they are strongly linked to a specific subfaction. Basically they get everything bad with special characters and magnify it)

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
Man I hope so, or someone needs to learn the history of Space Marines.

I learned all about it in biology class. When Mommy Primarch and Daddy Primarch love each other very much, they get a new baby Primarch, and that's how you get a new Space Marine chapter.


(More seriously though, that's why Primarch suck. You can't make your own primarch, there is a limited set of them, and they are strongly linked to a specific subfaction. Basically they get everything bad with special characters and magnify it)

I mean, besides the fact that narratively, they've singlehandedly shrunk a galaxy-spanning storyline involving every faction's cool named dudes into a sideshow for an edgy YA fanfiction about a dozen beefy spacemen who don't even have the decency to be properly gay and hot.

HH fiction is like reading twilight for the plot. The less it infests and contracts the vast universe of 40k the better.

the_scotsman wrote:
a dozen beefy spacemen who don't even have the decency to be properly gay and hot.

Sad stuff!

At what point does a company have too many armies to service/stock?

 Mr Morden wrote:
At what point does a company have too many armies to service/stock?

The moment they make a new one and not enough people buy it. If it flops financialy, then it means there is enough of that thing for this given time.

 Mr Morden wrote:
At what point does a company have too many armies to service/stock?

GW would almost certainly already have passed the point where SKU count would have been a major problem if they weren't running many of their own stores. Most independent stores can only stock a fraction of the total product line, and even just having a couple basic kits for faction army at this point results in dozens of different products to stock, and that sort of space just isn't available at most stores that have to support and array of different games, especially now that miniatures are more squad-box focused instead of blister packs. GW's presence in the market gives it a lot of leeway that competitors cant match, but I'm not sure how much further they can go.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
Man I hope so, or someone needs to learn the history of Space Marines.

I learned all about it in biology class. When Mommy Primarch and Daddy Primarch love each other very much, they get a new baby Primarch, and that's how you get a new Space Marine chapter.

Oh please. We know Marines propagate by inserting their space slugs in to viral young men on the verge of puberty. And no, that was not a euphemism.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
(More seriously though, that's why Primarch suck. You can't make your own primarch, there is a limited set of them, and they are strongly linked to a specific subfaction. Basically they get everything bad with special characters and magnify it)

To this you do have a point. One could try and hide your Marines behind one of the two Lost Primarchs, but it gets awkward when you have 3 or more different slug daddies that are all very different to each other, but still Lost.

 Mr Morden wrote:
At what point does a company have too many armies to service/stock?

A lot depends on how large each of those armies are. If they are the size of 5th Edition Dark Eldar or 3rd Edition Necrons, you can actually have quite a few. If they are the size of 9th Edition Space Marines... not many without having duplicates (oh, hi, Wolves and Angels).

Karol wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
At what point does a company have too many armies to service/stock?

The moment they make a new one and not enough people buy it. If it flops financialy, then it means there is enough of that thing for this given time.

My point was more about shelf/storage space - but others have answered.

Karol wrote:
Maybe GW doesn't want the general audiance to play dark eldar, and assumes that do want to play them in spite of that, are going to buy them no matter what the models are made of.

No one buys Grotesques lol, everyone buys Ogres and Crypts and converts them lol

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Karol wrote:
Maybe GW doesn't want the general audiance to play dark eldar, and assumes that do want to play them in spite of that, are going to buy them no matter what the models are made of.

No one buys Grotesques lol, everyone buys Ogres and Crypts and converts them lol

and zombicide minis instead of the official razorwing flock too.

 Jidmah wrote:
If you really doubt any of the statements, a peer reviewed journal article is not going to change your mind

I'm all open to flooding you with arguments on the ork thing though

It's more a case of the statements of your signature may often need to be made because people go around making absolute statements without any supporting evidence. Don't be the problem, be the solution. Provide knowledge, facilitate learning. My statement doesn't betray doubt of the statements more the method of their meaning's delivery and how it betrays the overarching theme you're trying to get at. Your signature is actually ironic.

Please do educate me on the Orks. I like to learn.

I agree in general, but a forum signature really is not meant to educate people

Anyways, the original idea for the signature comes from a t-shirt you can buy in many places that I changed up. Just search for "stand up for science tshirt".

Feel free to PM me or create a thread on why orks are not a melee army, I think we have taken this one far enough off topic already.