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Really you'd have to test it. I mean its a rear-area objective holder. Yes "haha, 1 daemonette can take it" - true, but if a daemonette squad can get across the table and charge into say 10 guardsmen/grots etc, they are probably toast anyway. You are functionally immune to being shot off, so that's valuable. The downside potentially is that its *so* hard to kill, it will never eat up any of your opponents firepower unless literally everything else is dead.

Certainly if it was say 10 points, I can see people taking say 5 or something just to ensure their deployment area and 9" out is functionally immune to DS and will remain so all game.

 Lance845 wrote:
@type40. So to be clear. You by admission have no sense of value in terms of design, no interest in learning, and are happy to play unbalanced nonsense because it looks neat and then decided to participate in a discusion about the mechanical value of one of the attributes in the game and derail almost a full page of that discusion because you choose to not understand the spirit of what is being said and instead argue what amounts to semantics. Again, semantics on a subject for which you have no meaningful input?

Is that about right?

lol, you really enjoy hyperbole.

No, that isn't right.

I was denouncing your statement about a wound equaling zero value whilst simultaneously acknowledging I am not the best person to calculate it's exact values.

Why are you so quick with using hyperbole to try and humiliate people ...

I thought we were having a pretty enjoyable conversation about whether or not wounds had inherent value (on topic) ... lol,,, show me where in this discussion we all decided we needed to be capable of formulaic and mathematical calculations of point value versus the discussion you triggered about the whether or not there even was inherent value to a wound ? Also, show me where "by admission have no sense of value in terms of design" ... that is pure hyperbole. I said I have a poor sense of point value, not tactical value.
I was not arguing semantics in the slightest. My points are clear and bring incredibly meaningful input, whether or not you choose to acknowledge that because of your inflated hyperbole is on you.

Your comment is pretty self-righteous.

So no, to be clear, what you are proposing with your comment is no where close to be right and is nothing but an overexaggerated farce of what I wrote.

Does the words "Jack gak" sound like an exact figure to you? What exactly are you denouncing?

I am not using hyperbole to humiliate anyone. I am mildly annoyed that you came in here to ignore the point of what I said to fixate on something I did not actually say (this btw is what amounts to arguing semantics).

I did not say that that units value was 0. I said it was worth jack gak.

You seem to do this in a lot of threads.

 Lance845 wrote:
Does the words "Jack gak" sound like an exact figure to you? What exactly are you denouncing?

I am not using hyperbole to humiliate anyone. I am mildly annoyed that you came in here to ignore the point of what I said to fixate on something I did not actually say (this btw is what amounts to arguing semantics).

I did not say that that units value was 0. I said it was worth jack gak.

You seem to do this in a lot of threads.

Jack gak literally means nothing ("I didn't get given jack gak for my birthday") or anything at all ("He doesn't know jack gak") depending on context. And the context used in your post was the latter.

Don't get upset at others that you apparently don't understand the slang you are using and people don't understand the argument you are attempting to make because of that.

JNA, Unit, And Jidmah seemed to understand it just fine.

Also, just for clarity.

 Lance845 wrote:
A wounds value is variable based on it's active impact on the battlefield.

A nigh immortal unit with 30w 2+ 2++ save and a single heavy 1 6" str 1 D1 weapon isn't worth jack gak for points.

Providing valuable auras or secondary effects and having good offensive output makes wounds valuable. You cannot calculate the value of a wound on it's own. You can only calculate it in relation to the rest of the unit.

See how I opened with a statement declaring my point. Followed with an example to provide evidence. And finished with a statement for clarification.

Do you think it adds value to this discussion to then say "Well, it's not worth ZERO."

JNA, Unit, And Jidmah seemed to understand it just fine.

JNA, Unit, and Jidmah and I had a perfectly constructive conversation and set of discourse where we concluded that a wound itself does have some value but it is augmented by a units other stats, rules and the synergies of other units in the same lists.

You are in "attack mode" and are attempting to humiliate someone because ... ? I don't know. you don't like me maybe. Or maybe you don't like that I disagreed with your statement. You are not disputing my points but rather are using hyperoble to discredit me. That is just a form of bullying and not constructive to discourse... but its all good.

You didnt actually mean "jack gak" and that's ok. You initated a point of miscommunication, and that's ok ... You don't need to try and denounce me because of that.
We miscommunicated. In large part because of your choice of words. Again, this happens, its ok.

Accept it and let's move on.

Type40 wrote:
JNA, Unit, and Jidmah and I had a perfectly constructive conversation and set of discourse where we concluded that a wound itself does have some value but it is augmented by a units other stats, rules and the synergies of other units in the same lists.

 Lance845 wrote:
A wounds value is variable based on it's active impact on the battlefield.

Providing valuable auras or secondary effects and having good offensive output makes wounds valuable. You cannot calculate the value of a wound on it's own. You can only calculate it in relation to the rest of the unit.

let's move on.

I am glad they convinced you of the thing I said from the beginning. Lets.

 Lance845 wrote:

Type40 wrote:
JNA, Unit, and Jidmah and I had a perfectly constructive conversation and set of discourse where we concluded that a wound itself does have some value but it is augmented by a units other stats, rules and the synergies of other units in the same lists.

 Lance845 wrote:
A wounds value is variable based on it's active impact on the battlefield.

Providing valuable auras or secondary effects and having good offensive output makes wounds valuable. You cannot calculate the value of a wound on it's own. You can only calculate it in relation to the rest of the unit.

let's move on.

I am glad they convinced you of the thing I said from the beginning. Lets.

Lol alright man.

If being right is that important to you, then sure. Then I concede, they definitely convicned me that wounds wern't worth "jack gak" just like you "said from the beginning" XD and my demonstration of how a wound has inherent value was for naught XD.

 Leth wrote:
Not really, it’s job is to sit there and score points or prevent deep strike.

If you are still thinking like it’s 8th edition then not much I can say. If my opponent using a their long range or barrage to take out Gretchen? (If they even have it) then they have more than made up their points.

Most likely however they are not going to bother and they will be free to sit there in peace being “worthless” hell most likely I would spend one cp to have them get me deploy scramblerss.

At 5ppm, yeah why wouldn't a Marine waste some random shots to kill them? If you hit them with a pair of stormbolters you put on a rhino for example you gun down like 4 of them, congrats your Stormbolter upgrades just paid for themselves x2. Also, that Grot unit will fail the morale test and lose 1-2 more models. 10pt upgrade on a vehicle just netted you a 300% return on investment, not bad.