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 p5freak wrote:
I feel like rhinos and LR should be twice as big. A chimera maybe 1,5 times.

Let's be honest here, all vehicles that are meant to carry units like space marines. Should be up scaled considerably and taking that into account, Baneblades would probably take up almost twice as much space as well. Especially going by that internal diagram that was released a long time ago, that showed how it's inner workings were operated.

Which means titans would also have the be scaled up as well...

My wallet hurts just thinking about it.

IMO the problem is table space as much as anything else.
It can take infantry an entire turn to walk the length of a tank already.
There simply isn't room to upscale vehicles.

I've always seen it more that the infantry models not accurate more than the vehicles. The Heroic scale really throws the proportions off for infantry, not so much the height, but certainly the width of the infantry models and the size of weapons etc. Heroic proportions on tank weaponry doesn't help either.

If you put 28mm infantry form a different manufacturer next to IG tanks the size doesn't seem to be an issue, and if SMs were realistically proportioned I imagine they would look much more able to fit inside.

Ork trucks ans battlewagons are absolutely too small to fit 12/20 orks. I dont mind though. It's a gameplay choice to scale/design vehicles smaller to fit the gaming surface. If anything I would rather have them scale infantry down. The table is way too crowded in a 40k game.

Aash wrote:
I've always seen it more that the infantry models not accurate more than the vehicles. The Heroic scale really throws the proportions off for infantry, not so much the height, but certainly the width of the infantry models and the size of weapons etc. Heroic proportions on tank weaponry doesn't help either.

If you put 28mm infantry form a different manufacturer next to IG tanks the size doesn't seem to be an issue, and if SMs were realistically proportioned I imagine they would look much more able to fit inside.

This is largely my take as well. Heroic scale is straight up goofy when it comes to overall proportions. Marines would be somewhat slimmer than their models.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Corvus Blackstars as well, I'm not having that marines can actually stand up inside it to be able to quickly deploy out, they'd be running on their knees.

Let alone fit a bike in it!

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We all know that old imperial, space marines in particular are awful for scale, but the one that specifically bugs me the most is the Drukhari/Harlequin venom... That's not even that old of a kit and they managed to fudge the scale of it that much, and even for pointy ears, I'm not accepting they can ride on those smooth ergonomic wings safely.

I suppose crammed in they would fit, but also shoot competently out of it though? No, sorry... One of the worse scale mistakes going for me.

EDIT: Actually, there's a few more modern vehicles as well, ork trukks with everyone being able to shoot out of it also, that just wouldn't happen.

Come to think of it, I can think of loads of modern ones now, Stormravens, not only being an ugly kit without a forgeworld upgrade, 10 marines are meant to fit in there okay and deploy quickly? Corvus Blackstars as well, I'm not having that marines can actually stand up inside it to be able to quickly deploy out, they'd be running on their knees.

The Corvus Blackstar is actually hilariously out of scale, but it looks cool so I give it a pass It's probably the worst scaled model that I can think of.

 Blndmage wrote:
Wow
So is this always and forever about Imperial vehicles?

It doesn't have to be. The Tau Manta can really fit an infantry platoon, suit platoon, and 4 vehicles. It can be yours for the low price of $1700!

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Tau-Manta

 Slowroll wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
Wow
So is this always and forever about Imperial vehicles?

It doesn't have to be. The Tau Manta can really fit an infantry platoon, suit platoon, and 4 vehicles. It can be yours for the low price of $1700!https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Tau-Manta

I believe forgeworld also released a krieg set specially designed to fit within the gorgon.

And you might actually get ten sisters in the old repressor with the hull cut to match the roof extension - one on each window, one on each door, and one on a hatch. Newer sisters are a bit taller though.

 Stormonu wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Corvus Blackstars as well, I'm not having that marines can actually stand up inside it to be able to quickly deploy out, they'd be running on their knees.

Let alone fit a bike in it!

Totally forgot it can fit a bike

Drop pods as well...

How many can fit in to a Storm Raven again?

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
/.../ but the one that specifically bugs me the most is the Drukhari/Harlequin venom... That's not even that old of a kit and they managed to fudge the scale of it that much, and even for pointy ears, I'm not accepting they can ride on those smooth ergonomic wings safely.

I suppose crammed in they would fit, but also shoot competently out of it though? No, sorry... One of the worse scale mistakes going for me.

It is wild to me that someone would have this take.
Venoms, Starweavers (harlequin venoms), and Raiders, all come with extra models to put onto the vehicles that show both the actual scale, how the passengers hang on to/fit on them (and through that also showing off how many models would reasonably fit on there (approx 5, 6, 10, respectively)).
On top of that there’s the detail that standard kabalite warriors, the unit that uses two-handed rifles, all carry retractable hook-chains to fasten themselves on their transport (so they can have their hands free), while models that only use single-handed weapons to shoot are modeled as holding on (leaving their other hand free to aim/shoot/orwhatever).

To me it seems like plenty of design work and thought went into these kits, to deal with this specifik purpose/problem specifically. It just... saddens me for it not to be recognized.

I mean ... there are certain vehicles where, I can have a guy stand at the back and fire a pistol, and he can't hit the front of it, because it's longer that the pistol's actual range. Imagine standing at the back of an M1 and firing a 9mm at someone near the front of the tank, and the bullet can't get there.

Once you have hit this situation, all bets about -any- kind of scale are off imo ...

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Drop pods as well...

To be fair, the existing drop pod was originally only designed to hold 5 Marines, and Forgeworld had a larger version for Dreadnoughts. Then GW took the infantry pod design, crammed twice as many harnesses in there and said it could carry 10 guys or a dreadnought. The 10 guys (or at least the 10 harnesses) fit, but even once you rip the interior stuff out it's not physically high enough in there for a dreadnought.

You know, they cant really make the items a lot bigger other wise you wont be able to put down any terrain at all.

Just think of a stompa or Gargantuan squiggoth running around. how ya'll gonna get it through terrain? The answer tends to be, we put larger distances between terrain and maybe theres even less of it when large models gets thrown on the table. So im fine with the sizes vehicles have even if it doesnt seem correct. Because the alternative would be much larger tables rather than the 60x48 or what ever we play on now, just to avoid having too little terrain.

ursvamp wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
/.../ but the one that specifically bugs me the most is the Drukhari/Harlequin venom... That's not even that old of a kit and they managed to fudge the scale of it that much, and even for pointy ears, I'm not accepting they can ride on those smooth ergonomic wings safely.

I suppose crammed in they would fit, but also shoot competently out of it though? No, sorry... One of the worse scale mistakes going for me.

It is wild to me that someone would have this take.
Venoms, Starweavers (harlequin venoms), and Raiders, all come with extra models to put onto the vehicles that show both the actual scale, how the passengers hang on to/fit on them (and through that also showing off how many models would reasonably fit on there (approx 5, 6, 10, respectively)).
On top of that there’s the detail that standard kabalite warriors, the unit that uses two-handed rifles, all carry retractable hook-chains to fasten themselves on their transport (so they can have their hands free), while models that only use single-handed weapons to shoot are modeled as holding on (leaving their other hand free to aim/shoot/orwhatever).

To me it seems like plenty of design work and thought went into these kits, to deal with this specifik purpose/problem specifically. It just... saddens me for it not to be recognized.

This thing can hold not only it's crew, but an additional 6, and spread out and stable enough (even with chains or whatever bullcrap) to not inhibit their room to shoot from it competently and not get in each others way whilst shooting? It's an awfully scaled kit.

Also, I didn't say a single thing about raiders.

Beardedragon wrote:
You know, they cant really make the items a lot bigger other wise you wont be able to put down any terrain at all.
Just think of a stompa or Gargantuan squiggoth running around. how ya'll gonna get it through terrain?

first question is, why does GW increase the size of their infantry in the first place if this is going to be a problem for the other models?
and why are models that are too large for the given terrain there at all (and something like a Stompa or Baneblade have about the right size)

that 40k is becoming too large, model wise, for the game size they are aiming for is problem for a long time now
but increasing the model size if infantry and adding decreasing points for that is more of a problem than having a Rhino in the correct size

at the moment, model size and table size are made to have ~15-20 Primaris and 1-2 Tanks (and maybe 1-2 Walker) on the table, everything else is already too much
having the Rhino smaller than it should be does not change anything here

I have to agree, 40k in the 3000pts and lower games does not need vehicles that size. I really really really love imperial knights and the models but they have no real place in standard 40k if you are taking a sensible path for the game (the horse bolted long ago in regards to that though so it's a moot point really), and in addition, the rules (the stompa probably being the most clear example in my mind as it is awful) never do it justice as they have to be scaled down rule wise to work in 40k also. Stompas should be a durable nightmare, you think Mortarion is hard to kill, they should be even more difficult, requiring anti-titan weaponry really to do it efficient otherwise it should take your whole army, and multiple turns, but alas, they want it in 40k so it's uber toned down (and amazingly still overpriced).

In which case, standard vehicles could afford to be a little larger and less ridiculous in regards to scale. However, after the no base comparison photos earlier, I do not think it is anywhere near as bad as I thought, it's just specific models that are horribly out rather than the whole range.

Okay, side rant here.

Last night I pulled out my primaris force to see how large it's become, and what I might consider buying to bring it up to 2K points.

That was when I noticed the Impulsor - seats six, model costs twice that of a Rhino. Same size as a Rhino.

Really, GW, feth you. That's freaking low, worse that halving the Dire Avenger kit years back.

Maybe Marines and Harlequins are the 40K equivalent of college students on the way to an intergalactic kegger? You can fit a lot of college students in a car if they really want to get somewhere. Not that I would advocate having more passengers than seatbelts in a Rhino.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
[

Spoiler:

This thing can hold not only it's crew, but an additional 6, and spread out and stable enough (even with chains or whatever bullcrap) to not inhibit their room to shoot from it competently and not get in each others way whilst shooting? It's an awfully scaled kit.

Also, I didn't say a single thing about raiders.

what do you mean? you can fit 4 dudes easily on the platform in the back, then one on each side, hanging on to the railing. Harlequins are tiny without their base.

Is the elf with the glaive a member of the crew or a cool add-on supposed to represent the unit being transported?

Rihgu wrote:
Is the elf with the glaive a member of the crew or a cool add-on supposed to represent the unit being transported?

a cool add-on.

there is already two elfs being "transported" with that modeling option. The crew is : driver + gunner

1/35 scale models:
M3 Scout ok as a ork truck
T-60 tank close to Leman but need wider tracks and bigger turret
Pz-III probably ok as a Leman if you cut its ass.
Same to M4 Sherman

In general, real scale models are BAD because of low profile, thin tracks and long body

Tiberias wrote:
I've been wondering about this for some while now. I'm really not very good at gaging whether 40k vehicles are scaled decently or not. Of course this can hardly be generalized and it greatly depends on the specific kit. For example I think rhinos are way too small, while a land raider at least seems to be able to carry a few people.

How do you feel about the scale of 40k vehicles in general and what specific kits are the right size or too small in your opinion. Just as a disclaimer: I am aware that it would not be feasible to scale every 40k vehicle 100% accurately due to not being practical in actual gameplay, but in some cases it really breaks my immersion. For example, as much as I love harlequins, I can not understand how 5 guys would fit into or on a starweaver unless they get crammed in there like in a literal clown car....which wouldn't be too far off actually, but still

Well,

In general, 40k vehicles are far too tall for their proportions. They also tend to have absurdly large bore diameters and very short barrel lengths.



After that:
The Rhino and it's variants are pretty well proportioned, relative to the size of a Space Marine and the size of an M113.

The Leman Russ is notable for, in addition to just being way too tall, the main gun breech intersects with the commander's legs, and based on the size of the gun, the shells can't actually fit in the modelled-on ammunition bins.

However, there's a general trend that as the models themselves get bigger, their proportions get better. I speculate that it's because they can't get any taller while still looking halfway decent, but can get wider and longer. The Kratos and Baneblade are both fairly well proportioned models, though their scale is obviously impressively large.

Please dont necro old threads.