Switch Theme:

Tau - lets give the poor fishies another phase to play in  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Covered Retreat is really cool, I like that.

I think Fieldcraft is too much, an additional +2 (so +3 in total) armour save is too much. Camo cloaks are only an extra +1.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 18:13:28


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 kirotheavenger wrote:
Covered Retreat is really cool, I like that.

I think Fieldcraft is too much, an additional +2 (so +3 in total) armour save is too much. Camo cloaks are only an extra +1.
Kommados set the precedent in the new Ork book; they get +2 (so +3 total) from cover. That makes sense, because they, like Kroot, start with Save 6+. +1 from cover is 5+, and even +2 would only be Save 4+; equivalent to basic Fire Warriors outside of cover.

Camo cloaks are fine because they turn Scouts into Terminators within cover, but when you're starting at Save 6+, any cover boost needs an extra something to be really worthwhile; I'm happy to steal the Kommando version, but another that came to mind was giving Kroot a 4+ or 5+ invulnerable save while in cover.

Depleted Ion Rounds is too much, yeah. Or at least, it's too easy to use; I'd like some way for Kroot to be able to become a genuine sniping threat, but stealing the Mars/Storm Bolter Stratagem within 12" probably isn't it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 18:26:55


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

I mean, 40 shots against a character is probably enough to kill or badly wound him without mortal wounds. I don't think they need a buff to their ability to snipe.
Deathmarks also had rapid fire sniper rifles and their problem was that they were expensive and had small squad sizes, not that rapid fire sniper rifles were inherently weak.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/11 18:31:29


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





 A Town Called Malus wrote:


Ah, fair enough! Well, my thoughts on the Riptide were made quite obvious in a previous post and if I'd designed it then it would be a lot harder for it to do so due to having much shorter range weaponry. It is a lot easier to get LOS on a unit trying to hide behind a building in the centre of the table than one doing the same thing in the enemy deployment zone.

And yes, the Coldstar shouldn't be able to JSJ when moving flat out. JSJ represents using the jetpack to make small manoeuvres, whereas the coldstar is more like flooring it.

So I'd have the Coldstar have two movement profiles which it can switch between at the beginning of the controlling players turn. If it is using the 20" move profile, it loses the Jet pack keyword. If using a standard crisis suit move profile, it has the jet pack keyword.

Or just say that the Coldstar suit has been modified to allow for faster flight but that such modifications resulted in a trade off of agility, with the jet pack thrusters being less capable of sudden changes in direction in order to protect the pilot from sudden changes in g-forces. As such the Coldstar cannot JSJ and loses the jet pack keyword, instead gaining the flight pack and/or aircraft keywords.


As it stands though, the riptide can hide in the deployment zone and lock down most of the board with impunity. A similar concern to the cold star is the ghostkeel. With their infiltration, they can hide anywhere on the mid board, get an early kick to the opponent’s teeth, and hide again. That’s even more obnoxious then the Invictor. Then there’s also the forge world suits to consider as well. If JSJ is going to a universal battlesuit rule then a lot of those units need to be re-examined with it.

On the kroot note, is there any reason not to bump them to T4 without a points increase at this point? If poxwalkers are T4, I see no reason for kroot to be T3.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Literally just that Kroot fall under the same category as guard melee units/troops, gretchin units, everything ork, everything nid, and everything gsc - if they get any stat boost that makes them stronger than any obscure unit with "Elite Lore" people will come out of the woodwork crying because theyre supposed to be the designated losers that make the elite doods look cool.

Kroot should probably be T4, 3+sv in cover, and have a couple S4 melee attacks in order to be a useful chaff-clearing melee unit. Roughly similar to a Tzaangor in terms of capability, maybe a little better due to the fact that tzaangors can get 5,321 buffs and kroot are subfaction trait-less.

....Vespids have lore as a heavy melee unit? Is that right? Huh.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/11 18:48:14


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:


On the kroot note, is there any reason not to bump them to T4 without a points increase at this point? If poxwalkers are T4, I see no reason for kroot to be T3.

Pox walkers are T4 because they are humans (T3) infected by Nurgle (+1T). Nurgle units tend to be tougher than normal.
Kroot are T3 because whilst they are supposed to be strong, they aren't that robust due to having hollow bones.
In the past they used to be S4 T3 for that reason; per the fluff they have really dense musculature that can allow them to inflict powerful blows quickly, but because they are still basically birds they aren't all that tough.
Then GW made them S3 T3 for some reason.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





One other consideration would be an anti psyker drone option. Just give it a denial and let it be a 0-1 option for HQ choices. Not sure on the points but I’d lean about 10 for each one.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 the_scotsman wrote:
Literally just that Kroot fall under the same category as guard melee units/troops, gretchin units, everything ork, everything nid, and everything gsc - if they get any stat boost that makes them stronger than any obscure unit with "Elite Lore" people will come out of the woodwork crying because theyre supposed to be the designated losers that make the elite doods look cool.

Kroot should probably be T4, 3+sv in cover, and have a couple S4 melee attacks in order to be a useful chaff-clearing melee unit. Roughly similar to a Tzaangor in terms of capability, maybe a little better due to the fact that tzaangors can get 5,321 buffs and kroot are subfaction trait-less.

....Vespids have lore as a heavy melee unit? Is that right? Huh.

They are described has having diamond hard claws which they use to harass the enemy, iirc. Making them into a melee unit wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/11 19:02:57


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
Literally just that Kroot fall under the same category as guard melee units/troops, gretchin units, everything ork, everything nid, and everything gsc - if they get any stat boost that makes them stronger than any obscure unit with "Elite Lore" people will come out of the woodwork crying because theyre supposed to be the designated losers that make the elite doods look cool.

Kroot should probably be T4, 3+sv in cover, and have a couple S4 melee attacks in order to be a useful chaff-clearing melee unit. Roughly similar to a Tzaangor in terms of capability, maybe a little better due to the fact that tzaangors can get 5,321 buffs and kroot are subfaction trait-less.

....Vespids have lore as a heavy melee unit? Is that right? Huh.

They are described has having diamond hard claws. Making them into a melee unit wouldn't be that much of a stretch.


...I mean, OK, but Eldar fight with monomolecular diamond-hard teeth on their chainswords (Ap-)....

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 the_scotsman wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
Literally just that Kroot fall under the same category as guard melee units/troops, gretchin units, everything ork, everything nid, and everything gsc - if they get any stat boost that makes them stronger than any obscure unit with "Elite Lore" people will come out of the woodwork crying because theyre supposed to be the designated losers that make the elite doods look cool.

Kroot should probably be T4, 3+sv in cover, and have a couple S4 melee attacks in order to be a useful chaff-clearing melee unit. Roughly similar to a Tzaangor in terms of capability, maybe a little better due to the fact that tzaangors can get 5,321 buffs and kroot are subfaction trait-less.

....Vespids have lore as a heavy melee unit? Is that right? Huh.

They are described has having diamond hard claws. Making them into a melee unit wouldn't be that much of a stretch.


...I mean, OK, but Eldar fight with monomolecular diamond-hard teeth on their chainswords (Ap-)....

Given the recent drukhari changes, I suspect pretty much all craftworld melee weapons that are currently AP 0 will become AP-1.

Kroot as sneaky Tzaangors feels like a pretty good fit to me. No one is expecting them to wipe out an intercessor squad on an objective on their own, but they'd be killy enough to finish off a unit softened up during the shooting phase. Vespid at S5 AP-1 or -2 with about 3 attacks feels like a good fit too. Between t heir claws and guns, they'd be moderately good against heavy infantry. Their closest competitors (the crisis suits) would have more shooting flexibility, more raw dakka against heavy infantry, and more durability, but they wouldn't be a unit you want to charge something with.

If we bring back JSJ, it might be fitting to give vespid a high Move stat, but NOT JSJ. Let them be the unit that wants to zoom forward and get into the thick of things compared to the slower, more cautious, more agile crisis suits.

In general, I think what I'd like to see is tau auxiliaries that will lose in melee versus other factions' dedicated melee units but which are good enough at their jobs to bully non-melee-specialists. Kroot should be able to win melee handily against guardsmen and give tactical marines a rough time, but they should be reluctant to charge assault intercessors. Vespid should be able to take down an eradicator or two in melee, but be out of their element against a squad of blood letters.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Proposed Rules
Go to: