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Seabass wrote:
So far, I'm really enjoying 9th edition. What I like is the way the missions are prioritized, the focus on core units vs non-core units, (I actually like this mechanic), and the new terrain rules. I play BA, Khorne Demons (and boy is Anggrath better now! still not great, but playable and fun!!!) space wolves, adeptus mechanicus, Tyranids, black legion, world eaters, and chaos knights, and my favorite army is a tie between Blood Angels and Chaos Knights.

It's a pretty wide range of "good" and "bad" armies but I seem to have a pretty consistent win some lose some game experience and have a lot of fun playing them.

What i would like to see improved is the communication from GW regarding the codex release schedule. I would love to see what the long-term plan is, and I'm sure the rest of the community would too.

Also, after a more recent discussion post, I'm not sure I like the mechanism of the Charadon style books anymore. At first, I didn't really have a problem with them and enjoyed them, but as someone who doesn't play Drukhari or Death Guard, the consideration brought out by others about how they don't like having to get another book for their complete rules does make a great deal make sense (Thank you Yukishiro for taking the time to legitimately answer my question instead of just assuming I was white-knighting and insulting me).

I still find value in the books for other reasons, so I don't mind buying them, but I'm not sure how much I like that model.

Overall, I'm positive. My real life is pretty rough, and I deal with a lot of "heavy" topics daily acting as an interim Grief Counselor and clinical cognitive behavioral therapist, while going to school for my PsyD, so what little time I get to relax and enjoy my hobby outside of my wife and daughter, I gladly take and tend to focus on the positives (which is why I have a reputation, if one at all, as a white knight).

Overall, I'm positive, but some things are needed, namely communication, to help give the players something to look forward to if you're one of those Black Legion or World Eaters players out there like me

The game is fun, it's a hobby that I enjoy and pulls me out of reality into a fantastic setting and a wonderfully valid excuse to hang out with friends. Ultimately, if I am asking for more out of my hobby, I'm placing the wrong expectations on my hobby.

YMMV

I may disagree with what you say in this a bit but I feel for the reasons you say them. You aren't for enjoying it, just so long as you aren't faulting someone else for seeing and commenting on the faults right ? You don't want to view them, say yourself you look past them and try and ignore them, not everyone either can or will doesn't make either person wrong. So I wouldn't say you are a white knight, I'd say you just don't want to focus on the bad, so long as you aren't claiming there is no bad that's all good right ?

That all said, I hear ya on the rough stuff IRL, hang tough brother, a lot worse things than GW being GW we can all agree on that I am sure.

 Aenar wrote:

The thing is that in 8th everyone got a hard reset and within 12 months 90% of the factions received their codex.

I guess I was unlucky then since I played 4 armies (Drukhari, SW, Orks, Adepta Sororitas) in 8th and got the first codex 14 months after the edition's release.

I had way more fun in this edition so far using my 8th edition codexes than in those 14 months when I was forced to play with indexes, and a much worse edition core rules wise.

 Blackie wrote:

 Aenar wrote:

The thing is that in 8th everyone got a hard reset and within 12 months 90% of the factions received their codex.

I guess I was unlucky then since I played 4 armies (Drukhari, SW, Orks, Adepta Sororitas) in 8th and got the first codex 14 months after the edition's release.

I had way more fun in this edition so far using my 8th edition codexes than in those 14 months when I was forced to play with indexes, and a much worse edition core rules wise.

Sisters were released in the CA before and as a codex only with the big wave of new models after that, no surprise they were the last one to come out.
DE, Orks, SW and GSC were among the last codices in Fall 2018. Considering the edition was released in Summer 2017, 14 months from start to finish was definitely a better scenario than the current release schedule, where 12 months in we are still missing more than half of the codices. If we consider AdMech, Orks and Sisters in the "uptaded to 9th" column (over the next month or two), 14 factions are missing updated rules.
The current wild unbalance (DE in primis) is just the cherry on top.

8th wasn't a great edition rules-wise, but at least it was balanced.
9th is a complete mess so far. Core rules are tighter, but balance is way off. I just hope they manage to fix it before the end of the year or we might as well wait for 10th ed in two years time at this point.

14 months from starts to finish is incorrect, my main army (orks) got their codex 18 months after the edition's release. And the gap between index and codex was huge, that's why GW rushed codexes releases. Now there isn't that issue since 8th editions codex are perfectly functioning. Not the utter nonsense that indexes were.

To me 9th seems way more balanced than 8th actually. I'm not even sold on the DE OPness, I think they're solid but mostly a perfect counter for the most common tournament lists, with one build that is actually extremely OP (DT liq spam) but that is also extremely uncommon in real life as very very few people actually own all the required models, and I don't think that many will rush to buy them in the near future. In casual to semi-competitive games DE shouldn't cause major issues.

And 8th edition's balance (which again it's just your personal opinion) means nothing if a functioning list HAS to bring 4-6 HQs and 6-9 troops just to work properly. At least I can enjoy 9th from day one, while I had to wait a year and a half to enjoy 8th.

I consider 8th a dumpster fire, and I think you're probably biased towards 9th (as I can be towards 8th for the same reason) because your main army, assuming it's Tau from your avatar, is in a pretty bad state now.

the game seems to be in an interesting place, the core rules seem pretty solid but could use a few tweaks however the down side is it is now in the same cycle of nonsense all the previous Eds got into, incremental change to rulebook, make new Ed, spit out loads of books and supplements and bloat the game until its unplayable.

if 6th/7th were the beta test for this, 9th is the culmination of that bad sales strategy (from a customer standpoint).

Thankfully the community does a great job of holding it all together and communicating what books are needed and diseminating information, GW is awful at it.

It's been ten months since 9th dropped and about a year since the news broke. My own gaming has been disrupted by three lockdowns, but I was able to get lots of games in. Overall I think that the game is a great place but there are warning signs out there.

The models are great. Modeling has been fun and painting in the community has come a long way with Youtube. Painting both halves of the Indomitus Set was fun.

The core rules improved some of the wonky areas of 8th. Terrain matters and re-rolls are toned down.

Missions matter now and I really like the Secondaries. I have dabbled with Crusade but not enough to comment. The GT2020 pack works well - been to three fun but challenging local tournies using the pack as is.

The warning sign is the DE Drukhari Codex and Charandon Supplement. The preceding books all seemed to have been well tested. The Drukhari book with supplement shows that mistakes can still be made.

Still, very much enjoying my 40K hobby and can't wait for the latest lockdown to be our last and get back to the FLGS for some 9th Ed.

 Blackie wrote:
14 months from starts to finish is incorrect, my main army (orks) got their codex 18 months after the edition's release. And the gap between index and codex was huge, that's why GW rushed codexes releases. Now there isn't that issue since 8th editions codex are perfectly functioning. Not the utter nonsense that indexes were.

To me 9th seems way more balanced than 8th actually. I'm not even sold on the DE OPness, I think they're solid but mostly a perfect counter for the most common tournament lists, with one build that is actually extremely OP (DT liq spam) but that is also extremely uncommon in real life as very very few people actually own all the required models, and I don't think that many will rush to buy them in the near future. In casual to semi-competitive games DE shouldn't cause major issues.

And 8th edition's balance (which again it's just your personal opinion) means nothing if a functioning list HAS to bring 4-6 HQs and 6-9 troops just to work properly. At least I can enjoy 9th from day one, while I had to wait a year and a half to enjoy 8th.

I consider 8th a dumpster fire, and I think you're probably biased towards 9th (as I can be towards 8th for the same reason) because your main army, assuming it's Tau from your avatar, is in a pretty bad state now.

I also have Necrons and SM in a larger quantities than I feel comfortable with, so I've had no issues in playing 9th (last Summer, pre-lockdown). The current state of Tau buggers me but only to a certain extent, what I really don't like is this staggered release schedule.
We all know that in 2022 a new edition will likely drop, as a max 3 year lifespan is the way of 40K editions.

Covid and brexit may have impacted the release of new stuff, but releasing rules is not as complicated as shipping physical models around the world when the internet exists.
If they don't want to go full digital for the rules, they could've (definitely should've imho) released a set of PDF files with updated stuff for the factions with codices 1+ year(s) out. Give CSM, GK & co their second wound, Eldar the new weapon profiles and so on.
There's simply no reason for not doing that, other than not having started working on those factions yet. That would be the likely reason for the current unbalance, so much for "all codices have been worked on and outlined in advance".

As a Deathwing/Dark Angels, Chaos, Deamons, Vanilla Marine, Grey Knight, and Custodes player:

3rd edition was great
4th was terrible
5th was ok
6th was awesome
7th sucked and became bloated (formations and pay to play)
8th was pretty good
9th - why the change from 8th? Lost interest

I always had a passion for playing pure dw armies. 3rd was great and I could run two ac in a 5 man squad. Funnny thing, I heard dw are good again but haven't even played a game with them in 9th.

I wish they could create an edition and keep it around for 10 years, adding supplements for new units.

I thought that was the point of 8th too, adjust codex books but the core rules wouldn't have to be changed for a long time. Lesson learned though, I stopped buying every codex in 6th/7th. I only buy what I play now.

I'm with Positive, but still needs a fair amount of work.

Overall, I really like the GT mission pack idea (though they could be better) the regular points updates and FAQS, and I really feel like they've been nailing the flavor and mechanics of the recent codexes.

That being said, as is tradition, they really haven't gotten the balance right, Drukhari have shown to be an absolutely broken mess that all this extra playtesting was supposed to alleviate. Not a big fan of the early DLCs either.

I went with "neutral". I like most of the 9th edition core rules, with a few caveats (the limit of only -1 to hit shouldn't apply to self inflicted penalties, like moving infantry with heavy weapons). And although the new codexes have been great so far, one of my armies doesn't have one yet and the other was thrown into Legends purgatory. So no help there so far. I liked almost everything they did with my fw stuff except the MASSIVE caveat of Martial Legacy, and they still haven't fixed the Dreadclaws rules yet and melee Contemptors remain pointless. So little bit of good, little bit of bad. Neutral.

At the rate 40k is going, either 10th edition or 11th edition will feature someone on the design team touting the introduction of "universal special rules" placed in the rulebook to consolidate and simplify rules interactions (and reduce rules complications caused by the multiple different versions of 'not quite feels no pain').

40K seems like it's not too different to how it was back in 5e when I last played regularly in many ways. Marines are still the favourite faction of the designers, balance is still all over the place, certain factions spend ages with crap rules and it is absolutely not a priority to do anything about them and so on.
The core rules seem okay but the amount of bloat layered on top of them is really astounding to me. It's not a style of play I'm particularly into any more, looking for very gamey combos in my wargame mechanics. I'd rather something straightforward and streamlined.

I keep an eye on 40K because I'd like to get into it. But I'm not optimistic.

Oh, and the background, yeah I really don't like the "ongoing story" kind of background they're going with these days. No big deal, I have access to all my old background materials and can make up my own stuff, but I'm not inspired by what they are presenting when it is focused on a small number of superhero characters.

Very negative for me!! 4th-5th edition was awesome and fun, after that I just lost interest in the following editions. I love Harlequins and hate how they have become so boring. They need nightmarish units like an Avatar and Mimes and some additional troupe model alternatives.

 Aenar wrote:


8th wasn't a great edition rules-wise, but at least it was balanced.
9th is a complete mess so far. Core rules are tighter, but balance is way off. I just hope they manage to fix it before the end of the year or we might as well wait for 10th ed in two years time at this point.

9th has a lot more armies around the 50% win rate, and fewer outliers that are way above other armies. I don't think they are going to fit all the stuff they wanted in to 9th ed though. They already have 3 months plus of delay.

I find it interesting that in December I believe GW said that 2021 was going to be the year of the xenos, and its almost to the half way point of the year and we have had two xeno codexes. (Anyone please correct me if I dreamt them saying that, but I am pretty sure they said that or something to that effect.) I am still waiting for my Tau Codex to show me some sort of life for my army. I know supply chains issues are a thing, but it just feels like they are bogged down right now and not releasing a whole lot of stuff.
I am not really paying to much attention right now and will not until I see a Tau Codex and if it addresses the many issues that the army has.
Did an edit too account that have been two xeno codices when the OP said there was only one.

Karol wrote:

 Aenar wrote:


8th wasn't a great edition rules-wise, but at least it was balanced.
9th is a complete mess so far. Core rules are tighter, but balance is way off. I just hope they manage to fix it before the end of the year or we might as well wait for 10th ed in two years time at this point.

9th has a lot more armies around the 50% win rate, and fewer outliers that are way above other armies. I don't think they are going to fit all the stuff they wanted in to 9th ed though. They already have 3 months plus of delay.

Win rate drawn from tournament data doesn't really tell us anything meaningful about balance though.

It might be that a 'good' list using 10% of a faction's available units has a 50% win rate on the tournament circuit, but the other 90% of units are hot garbage compared to all other factions.


As for 'fitting stuff in to 9th ed', GW aren't forced to stick to a 3-ish year edition cycle - they could put as much time/content as they like in an edition. They won't because new editions aren't fundamentally about improving the game, but rather making mucho dollar dollar.

Sure, they said something about xenos in '21 (forget what exactly). And we're nearly 6 months into the year with the only '21 xenos arriving so far being Drukari.

But we know the Orks are coming.
And we don't know what's after that. So '21 may still be a good xeno year.

Or maybe they were just slyly referring to how the Drukari were going to reign supreme tourney-wise....

ccs wrote:
Sure, they said something about xenos in '21 (forget what exactly). And we're nearly 6 months into the year with the only '21 xenos arriving so far being Drukari.

But we know the Orks are coming.
And we don't know what's after that. So '21 may still be a good xeno year.

Or maybe they were just slyly referring to how the Drukari were going to reign supreme tourney-wise....

Given that we know Sisters and AdMech are this year as well I very much doubt it.

 Sim-Life wrote:

ccs wrote:
Sure, they said something about xenos in '21 (forget what exactly). And we're nearly 6 months into the year with the only '21 xenos arriving so far being Drukari.

But we know the Orks are coming.
And we don't know what's after that. So '21 may still be a good xeno year.

Or maybe they were just slyly referring to how the Drukari were going to reign supreme tourney-wise....

Given that we know Sisters and AdMech are this year as well I very much doubt it.

Because.... reasons?

ccs wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

ccs wrote:
Sure, they said something about xenos in '21 (forget what exactly). And we're nearly 6 months into the year with the only '21 xenos arriving so far being Drukari.

But we know the Orks are coming.
And we don't know what's after that. So '21 may still be a good xeno year.

Or maybe they were just slyly referring to how the Drukari were going to reign supreme tourney-wise....

Given that we know Sisters and AdMech are this year as well I very much doubt it.

Because.... reasons?

Well, we can probably expect around 6-or-so releases in a year for 40k, and with DA, DE, Orks, Sisters, AdMech, GK, and TSons already reasonably assumed to be coming, were not likely to see too many more in there.

If the new AoS drops in July, they could give us both Sisters and Orks in June. If that happens, it puts us back to averaging 1 dex/ month.

If GK and Ksons get a vs. box and maybe an additional unit each, we could end up with both of those in a month too.

But even just assuming one/ month from here out: Sisters for June, Orks July, GK August, Ksons Sept. This leaves minimally 3 more dexes.

We've been dealing with delays for so long, it's easy to forget how ambitious the original release schedule was. I don't know if it's realistic to assume that there is the potential to return to that level of output, but they really did seem to have a plan for 2/ month right up until it all fell apart.

One faction per month, I believe is very reasonable; we're not far from that even with the delays.

 Lord Damocles wrote:


Win rate drawn from tournament data doesn't really tell us anything meaningful about balance though.

It might be that a 'good' list using 10% of a faction's available units has a 50% win rate on the tournament circuit, but the other 90% of units are hot garbage compared to all other factions.
.

I have not seen a bad tournament faction army do good world wide, outside of tournaments. Or vice versa, and I don't think it is the case in 9th ed either.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Aenar wrote:


8th wasn't a great edition rules-wise, but at least it was balanced.
9th is a complete mess so far. Core rules are tighter, but balance is way off. I just hope they manage to fix it before the end of the year or we might as well wait for 10th ed in two years time at this point.

9th has a lot more armies around the 50% win rate, and fewer outliers that are way above other armies. I don't think they are going to fit all the stuff they wanted in to 9th ed though. They already have 3 months plus of delay.

Win rate drawn from tournament data doesn't really tell us anything meaningful about balance though.

It might be that a 'good' list using 10% of a faction's available units has a 50% win rate on the tournament circuit, but the other 90% of units are hot garbage compared to all other factions.

There are two factors in balance and both are extremely important, the internal balance between units inside a faction and external balance between factions.

Playing with bad external balance means you win too much or too little which can make it feel like you don't have as much agency because regardless of how you play you are going to win/lose anyway. A bad army will not be picked up in competitive play, meaning that the light competitive play can shine on internal imbalance does not get put to use in solving that faction's internal imbalances.

Playing with an army that is internally imbalanced can make it feel too easy when playing with some units and too hard when playing with others. It can make people rip their miniatures apart to rebuild them with different more cost-effective options, wasting time on rebuilding and repainting miniatures that could be spent building and painting new things.

42 % positive on a fansite is ,... not great. On Rotten Tomatoes, for instance,I would not see the movie. I wouldn’t even watch it on da webz for free. Yikes... GW.

 jeff white wrote:
42 % positive on a fansite is ,... not great. On Rotten Tomatoes, for instance,I would not see the movie. I wouldn’t even watch it on da webz for free. Yikes... GW.

Dakkadakka is not a fan site. Even ignoring that the page also supports other games, it's probably a safe bet to assume that a tenth of the people voting haven't even played 9th once.

Seeing that a new Chapter Approved is coming out in a week, with new points, missions and secondaries for tournament play, my opinion is definitely improved.
I was complaining about a lack of balance and them not even trying to, but this definitely goes in the right direction.
Let's hope some point updates and new missions are enough to bring balance to the...game.

I started my obsession with the grim dark during second edition. While I haven't always been involved during that time, my most recent foray is border line lunacy and heresy. I LOVE this game, the community, the lore, the sculpts (OoooooOOOO, you dirty little gaunt!) Table top, sculpting, painting, but I digress. I am in absolute disgust of GW and the way they treat us. Fests with not much to be festive about, price gouging, intentional merch shortages, and a ridiculous price point for just about everything.

I would be genuinely HAPPY if they closed shop tomorrow. BECAUSE of us. If these gakkers closed up tomorrow, this community would keep this game alive and THRIVING. In this age of digital sharing and buying, 3D printing, digital media, and the huge well of talent this universe pulls from, we will NEVER see it's death. Not only that, but it would continue to thrive like an awoken tomb world.

Straight forward, my views and opinions of the company are VERY negative. However, my views about this universe are blindingly positive. Being only outshined by the light of our emperor. So stay positive you marines, you warbosses, you TITANS. I have stared hard into the warp, and I see naught but victory for our side! Stay positive you titans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I started my obsession with the grim dark during second edition. While I haven't always been involved during that time, my most recent foray is border line lunacy and heresy. I LOVE this game, the community, the lore, the sculpts (OoooooOOOO, you dirty little gaunt!) Table top, sculpting, painting, but I digress. I am in absolute disgust of GW and the way they treat us. Fests with not much to be festive about, price gouging, intentional merch shortages, and a ridiculous price point for just about everything.

I would be genuinely HAPPY if they closed shop tomorrow. BECAUSE of us. If these gakkers closed up tomorrow, this community would keep this game alive and THRIVING. In this age of digital sharing and buying, 3D printing, digital media, and the huge well of talent this universe pulls from, we will NEVER see it's death. Not only that, but it would continue to thrive like an awoken tomb world.

Straight forward, my views and opinions of the company are VERY negative. However, my views about this universe are blindingly positive. Being only outshined by the light of our emperor. So stay positive you marines, you warbosses, you TITANS. I have stared hard into the warp, and I see naught but victory for our side! Stay positive you titans.

PenitentJake wrote:
If the new AoS drops in July, they could give us both Sisters and Orks in June. If that happens, it puts us back to averaging 1 dex/ month.

If GK and Ksons get a vs. box and maybe an additional unit each, we could end up with both of those in a month too.

But even just assuming one/ month from here out: Sisters for June, Orks July, GK August, Ksons Sept. This leaves minimally 3 more dexes.

We've been dealing with delays for so long, it's easy to forget how ambitious the original release schedule was. I don't know if it's realistic to assume that there is the potential to return to that level of output, but they really did seem to have a plan for 2/ month right up until it all fell apart.

One faction per month, I believe is very reasonable; we're not far from that even with the delays.

Orks and Sisters both have substantial model releases. Seems unlikely they happen in the same month. I also see little to make me think GW is going to suddenly get faster again; I feel like they'd be trumpeting that fact if it was about to happen. I don't share your optimism.

Also, one faction per month is alright... if you prioritize the right factions. GW hasn't done that.

There is like 17? more factions left to do in 9th.
1 per month is to slow a pace for how big 40k is vs how long an edition lasts.

8th edition was the sort of speed I want GW to have. Practically everyone got their codex reasonably quickly and was able to enjoy them for a long (relative) time with supplements coming out to keep GW's gravy train rolling.

Keep in mind the ork release is split.

They'll push out 1001 units of the Beastsnaggas Limited Edition Collectors Box For Scalpers, then come back with the separate ork codex and actual release in a couple months.

So they may well release sisters, punt the ork box, and then drop AoS 3.0, the new faction's and Stormcast battletomes, and then come back to 40k with TS vs GK, their respective books and settle in for the orks proper release..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ordana wrote:
8th edition was the sort of speed I want GW to have. Practically everyone got their codex reasonably quickly and was able to enjoy them for a long (relative) time with supplements coming out to keep GW's gravy train rolling.

Hard disagree here. 8th happened way too fast, and the books lasted an absurdly short time, doubly so for the terrible supplements.