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 Kanluwen wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Kroot have always had their fans. The IDEA of vespids is really exciting and I like their background, but their sculpts look like ass.

Sure, Kroot have had their fans--but they haven't really been a draw for someone to collect Tau in my experience not like the various Battlesuits have been.

The were for me, but I certainly understand I'm in the minority. That being said, if the Kroot were expanded upon and featured more front and center, that could change. The have enough design space to be a small faction in their own right if GW actually decided to pay them any mind for once.


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Sterling191 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/14/master-the-ways-of-montka-and-kauyon-with-codex-tau-empires-new-tactical-philosophies/

Looks like it's Mont'Ka for everyone time.

Yeah, seems like in 9th that's the way to go. Makes me wonder though, given how far in advance future editions and plans are, could Kauyon be something more viable in the next edition where it might not be about aggressively fighting over the midfield so much?

There are a few corner case situations where I could see Kauyon working, but yeah, seems like it's going to be 95% Mont'Ka for the foreseeable future.

Sterling191 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Didn't they already have Fallback as a normal move? So Mont'ka allows you to fallback and shoot without penalty in the first 3 turns, but kauyon only allows you to do it in turns 3-5 and there is a -1 to hit associated with it?
That does not bode well.

Falling Back is distinctly not a Normal Move in 9th. Mont'Ka as written does not allow that functionality.

Current Mont'ka indeed allows you to fall back and shoot, it's why FSE has been the most successful Tau army in 9th thus far.

 bullyboy wrote:

Current Mont'ka indeed allows you to fall back and shoot, it's why FSE has been the most successful Tau army in 9th thus far.

Current Mont'ka does. The Mont'Ka on display here explicitly does not. You don't get three turns of Advance and count as stationary, extra AP, rerolls to wound *and* free fall back and shoot.

Sterling191 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Current Mont'ka indeed allows you to fall back and shoot, it's why FSE has been the most successful Tau army in 9th thus far.

Current Mont'ka does. The Mont'Ka on display here explicitly does not. You don't get three turns of Advance and count as stationary, extra AP, rerolls to wound *and* free fall back and shoot.

OK, well that's good then otherwise it would be even more of a no brainer choice.
I wonder if Farsight will have an ability to allow a unit to fallback and shoot then? It's a huge issue for them if not due to wanting to be in close proximity with Mont'ka.

Mont'ka looks amazing, which is great for me as I'm always going to go for the fast moving army play style. I can definitely see Kauyon being the better choice in certain matchups though, and all of this is in a vacuum, we have no idea what further interactions with these abilities are in the codex.

 Tawnis wrote:

Yeah, seems like in 9th that's the way to go. Makes me wonder though, given how far in advance future editions and plans are, could Kauyon be something more viable in the next edition where it might not be about aggressively fighting over the midfield so much?

I doubt 10th will bring a major shift, particularly not in the stuff that matters. They're still flailing a bit on how objectives should work in this edition, for one thing.

But most of the problem with Kauyon are the 9th edition specific changes to weapons to increase lethality, which are really unlikely to be reversed next time. Not so much midfield fighting as the sheer ability for armies to just erase units, meaning that bonuses that don't even start until turn 3 just aren't useful, and Tau aren't notably durable in the first place.

 bullyboy wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Current Mont'ka indeed allows you to fall back and shoot, it's why FSE has been the most successful Tau army in 9th thus far.

Current Mont'ka does. The Mont'Ka on display here explicitly does not. You don't get three turns of Advance and count as stationary, extra AP, rerolls to wound *and* free fall back and shoot.

OK, well that's good then otherwise it would be even more of a no brainer choice.
I wonder if Farsight will have an ability to allow a unit to fallback and shoot then? It's a huge issue for them if not due to wanting to be in close proximity with Mont'ka.

I mean, isn't that the entire point? Why play if everything is solved for you* out of the box with zero risks involved?

(Not specifically you, the proverbial you)*

 bullyboy wrote:

OK, well that's good then otherwise it would be even more of a no brainer choice.
I wonder if Farsight will have an ability to allow a unit to fallback and shoot then? It's a huge issue for them if not due to wanting to be in close proximity with Mont'ka.

Farsight and Shadowsun are almost certainly going to have abilities to manipulate their favored philosophy in some manner. The army's crippling vulnerability to the bad touch can be very easily dealt with by other means.

Would like to give my opinion, but pandemic made me return to homecity and noone else here plays here so no matches since.

Glad to see and start to learn about the state of the army, and hoping for more news for Enclaves.

Losing fall back and shoot is huge unless there are good other ways of getting it.

Kauyon being turn 3-5 makes me seriously wonder what game of 40k the designers are playing. Games are decided in the first 2 turns, 3 if we're being very generous. Having no bonus in the most crucial times is simply not an option.

I also love how the idea of Mont'ka is to reward you for advanced forwards by shortening the range each turn when it reality it will be the Tau hanging back and the enemy coming forward instead.

The same thing can be said for the Idoneth's "Tides of Death"...

I'm pretty sure that Commanders will be able to manipulate when these things get active.

Has decent abilities to start and t3 isn't as late　in aos3 as it's in 40k. 2 to 3 double turn for example is hell of a lot more　powerful than 1 to 2. There's reason why going 2nd is　rewarded on round 3.

Ah cool. They incorporated these as a "battle plan" approach instead of having it as a Crisis Commander roleplaying as a quarterback

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Couple of bits shown so far, such as improvements to the Pulse Rifle and Carbine

I actually haven't been able to find any changes to the pulse rifle or the carbine? What did they change?

 Amun-Rom wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Couple of bits shown so far, such as improvements to the Pulse Rifle and Carbine

I actually haven't been able to find any changes to the pulse rifle or the carbine? What did they change?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/25/troops-are-better-than-ever-how-the-next-three-codexes-improve-your-units/

Basically: range. And rifles get a point of AP.

 Ordana wrote:
Losing fall back and shoot is huge unless there are good other ways of getting it.

Kauyon being turn 3-5 makes me seriously wonder what game of 40k the designers are playing. Games are decided in the first 2 turns, 3 if we're being very generous. Having no bonus in the most crucial times is simply not an option.

I also love how the idea of Mont'ka is to reward you for advanced forwards by shortening the range each turn when it reality it will be the Tau hanging back and the enemy coming forward instead.

I'm going to bet that the new abilities for Farsight and Shadowsun are going to be extensions of Kauyon / Mont'Ka. I'll bet that Farsight will be something like Mont'Ka lasts for an extra turn, and Shadowsun is Kauyon starts turn 2. We are only seeing bits and pieces right now, while they certainly look like one is stronger than the other, that may change with how the army is reworked. We just have to wait and see. (Could even be a WT if it is a thing.) If it ends up being something like that, it makes sense to have Kauyon pushed back to turn 3 so that it's not busted if you use something like that.

Otherwise, yeah, seems odd to put something in like that that is only really strong that late in the game when most things are dead and 9/10 the game is already decided.


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 Amun-Rom wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Couple of bits shown so far, such as improvements to the Pulse Rifle and Carbine

I actually haven't been able to find any changes to the pulse rifle or the carbine? What did they change?

They also had a blink and you'll miss it statement that Pulse Blasters would get a buff too, but no details on exactly what that buff would be.

You know what is funny? Dawn of War (yup, the 2004 game) invented two minor tactics, lone hunter and great strike (fluffed as experimental but raised to the status of equal to the two big ones should the Tau win the campaign), to give Tau players more options and varied gameplay than just the two lame codex ones. Seeing GW made the game commanders canon (and Shas O'Kais even specifically the third student of Puretide) you'd expect they would also add them to give Tau players more options than ramming them into Mont'ka hole seeing no one will pick the other bonus... Oh wait, no, that would require competent rule writers, better just make Tau broken OP again instead

Not good if kayon requires special character to be at all viable

 Irbis wrote:
You know what is funny? Dawn of War (yup, the 2004 game) invented two minor tactics, lone hunter and great strike (fluffed as experimental but raised to the status of equal to the two big ones should the Tau win the campaign), to give Tau players more options and varied gameplay than just the two lame codex ones. Seeing GW made the game commanders canon (and Shas O'Kais even specifically the third student of Puretide) you'd expect they would also add them to give Tau players more options than ramming them into Mont'ka hole seeing no one will pick the other bonus... Oh wait, no, that would require competent rule writers, better just make Tau broken OP again instead

Lone Hunter IS recognized as the third way, it's that no one other than Kais has such a detachment from society(being that such a thing is normally anathema to the highly social Tau) as to be able to implement it properly. That's why Kais clones exist as one of the Ethereals dark secrets.

I wonder if the buff to pulse rifles will extend to burst cannon.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Kroot have always had their fans. The IDEA of vespids is really exciting and I like their background, but their sculpts look like ass.

Sure, Kroot have had their fans--but they haven't really been a draw for someone to collect Tau in my experience not like the various Battlesuits have been.

I men, the fish tanks were also a great draw, historically, and still, they've done basically nothing with them in a long while.

I honestly find the tanks much more appealing than most of the suits, particularly the big ones.

But then again, I'm very much against using all this big maxitures that GW insists on making for a game that doesn't actually accomodate them.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Kroot have always had their fans. The IDEA of vespids is really exciting and I like their background, but their sculpts look like ass.

Sure, Kroot have had their fans--but they haven't really been a draw for someone to collect Tau in my experience not like the various Battlesuits have been.

I men, the fish tanks were also a great draw, historically, and still, they've done basically nothing with them in a long while.

I honestly find the tanks much more appealing than most of the suits, particularly the big ones.

But then again, I'm very much against using all this big maxitures that GW insists on making for a game that doesn't actually accomodate them.

The FW Tetras are by far the coolest-looking models the Tau have. Hard agree that it shouldn't be all about the robot suits.

Yeah I'm all about the Tau tanks over suits. Devilfish looks cool af.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Yeah I'm all about the Tau tanks over suits. Devilfish looks cool af.

Barracuda and Tigersharks are the real stars, but the Devilfish is a classic. Would be nice to get a remastered version like they did the russ and chimera kits.

T'au are a victim of GW initially trying to make them a well-rounded, diverse force with vehicles, infantry, battlesuits and alien auxilliaries to fit the gaps in the range, but then switching to only making what ended up having the best sales, aka Battlesuits and occasional infantry.

To be fair, it’s what makes them unique. Gunlines can be done with guard, and mechanized grav-armor w/infantry support was an Eldar thing first.

Multi-species coalition is what makes them unique. Every faction has some sort of piloted mech, except tyranids.

A multi-species coalition is maybe what the fluff talked about, but that hasn't translated to models. It's pretty much always been the Tau + Kroot sidekick show. I doubt GW will ever return to that design paradigm for the Tau.

 Dendarien wrote:
A multi-species coalition is maybe what the fluff talked about, but that hasn't translated to models. It's pretty much always been the Tau + Kroot sidekick show. I doubt GW will ever return to that design paradigm for the Tau.

People know that. They're giving voice to the fact that they want Tau to match their fluff.

More aliens in the galaxy-wide wargame.

 Da Boss wrote:
Multi-species coalition is what makes them unique. Every faction has some sort of piloted mech, except tyranids.

Guard have piloted walkers...and a "multi-species coalition".

What makes Tau unique is that their "walkers" were still treated as semi-organic.