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2022/04/13 02:07:08
Subject: Re:Crediting codex and rulebook writers and artists
Insectum7 wrote: 3. What do you think Lincoln's response to hate mail was? I'd reckon it probably wasn't "Ban them from using the mail!" Lol.
Didn't he become President Anonymous and never go outside again (but still put articles into Ye Olde White Dwarfe under his name and with his picture, naturally)?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/13 02:07:20
Doesn't GW not want their creators to own any right to the stuff they do, because of legal issues coming from it?
Just because you're credited in a work doesn't mean you have rights to it.
And lets not forget that many works GW produces won't be just one person but a team effort with varying levels of input. So whilst a codex could have 1 name on the cover as the author, a lot of chunks within might be done by different staff. Whilst customers on the outside won't know that, staff on the inside of the firm will (or at least should and have access to that information)
Purifying Tempest wrote: The worst part is... an author's name on their work is like... their brand, their resume. Something real world that can spread their name to other groups and companies who may want to sign that author on for a project they're working on. Once again, the internet is such a place that a few rabid lunatics can affect the real world in a very real way that negatively impacts people just trying to 1) get by and make a living, and 2) doing something they didn't have to sell their soul to do and may have enjoyed doing it.
Suppose there's a lesson EVERYONE here can learn, especially the next time we think about launching off in an unhinged rant against someone we perceive as wrong, ignorant, or just plain stupid. Like... being a human, even on the internet, and treating other people in kind is one of the most important things we can strive to do. Sometimes someone's lunch quite literally depends on it.
Not to minimize the problem of threats and toxic, fans, this was a GW decision. GW also does not credit sculptors and artists these days (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think they are getting many death threats.
It might be the result of a change towards collaborative work, but it seems to me part of it is GW wanting fans to focus on the brand rather than the talent behind it, lest we follow them to other projects.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldarsif wrote: This thread is horrible. I agree that creators should get credits if they wish it. I found it weird that the animated WHTV shows didn't have any credits at all.
Seriously?
OK this is definitely a company policy, and one that is totally out of line with the norms in any creative industry.
At least BL authors get their names on the cover.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/13 09:15:30
2022/04/13 09:28:44
Subject: Crediting codex and rulebook writers and artists
Eldarsif wrote: This thread is horrible. I agree that creators should get credits if they wish it. I found it weird that the animated WHTV shows didn't have any credits at all.
Seriously?
They're credited to Warhammer Storyforge on-screen. IMDB, etc. have complete credits.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: OK this is definitely a company policy, and one that is totally out of line with the norms in any creative industry.
But they don't seem to ban it - they've identified individuals in White Dwarf, and people mention what they've done on social media (Ray Dranfield, for example).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/13 09:29:31
2022/04/13 09:34:58
Subject: Crediting codex and rulebook writers and artists
Toofast wrote: But guns are illegal in Britain so surely nobody would have to worry about that. You can't even buy pointy steak knives there any more...
Wow, everything you said here is wrong!
Sure, you can have knives...if the blade is under 3", doesn't open automatically or have an assist, and doesn't have any sort of locking mechanism (which would ban nearly evey pocket knife sold/carried in the US). Sure you can have a gun, as long as it isn't a pistol, or semi-automatic (which is 90% of the firearms sold and carried in the US). There have been multiple organizations campaigning for a ban on pointy kitchen knives. It isn't law...yet.
They're not going to ban kitchen knives. To be honest all of that sounds like a positive, given you're 18 times more likely to get murdered in the US?
The laws are basically you're not allowed to carry a knife without a good reason, and "potential self-defence" isn't considered a good reason.
I used to have a full blown Khukri mounted on my wall.
Gun laws are similar - I have friends that own guns and attend shooting ranges. But buying a pistol for self defence won't fly.
Anyway, I agree that the primary reason behind removing author credits is most likely because they want people to focus on the brand. Rather than any particular individuals.
It's also possible that they've been writing codexes through more collaborative efforts than before and don't feel that any one name deserves the vast majority of the credit.
I certainly don't think it was done simply for fear of death threats.
2022/04/13 10:45:01
Subject: Crediting codex and rulebook writers and artists
Eldarsif wrote: This thread is horrible. I agree that creators should get credits if they wish it. I found it weird that the animated WHTV shows didn't have any credits at all.
Seriously?
They're credited to Warhammer Storyforge on-screen. IMDB, etc. have complete credits.
But only crediting people on 3rd party sites is not the norm. We joke about how long the credits for films are, but that's because it takes an army to make a movie. And they're entitled to credit for their work.
Even works are collaborative it is normal to recognize the entire team and the team leader or editor who had the final say.
Older GW books would credit the artist for each picture, whether a 1/8 page sketch or a two page spread. Catalogue pages would credit the sculptor and Reaper credits each one on their site. Does GW still do that?
2022/04/13 11:59:35
Subject: Crediting codex and rulebook writers and artists
Honestly a LOT of model companies never credit the creator. At least not openly like on the product page; they might get a mention in a blog article now and then.
Even in the world of STLs where teams are very much often just a sculptor and someone organising the sculptors rarely get a mention to the point where some are shocked that some patreons aren't just the creator themselves sculpting each month.
In fact I think one of the few that actually does make overt mention is The Makers Cult who made it a thing to have guest sculptors every month.
But only crediting people on 3rd party sites is not the norm. We joke about how long the credits for films are, but that's because it takes an army to make a movie. And they're entitled to credit for their work.
Even works are collaborative it is normal to recognize the entire team and the team leader or editor who had the final say.
Older GW books would credit the artist for each picture, whether a 1/8 page sketch or a two page spread. Catalogue pages would credit the sculptor and Reaper credits each one on their site. Does GW still do that?
Aren't the credits so long because unions in hollywood riot each time, someone tries to cut the 4th grip guy? I remember watching a hollywood history show on a french channel with my mom, and they had an interesting episode about how hard it was for the studios to move some of the credits to the end of the movie
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2022/04/13 12:46:26
Subject: Re:Crediting codex and rulebook writers and artists
Insectum7 wrote: 3. What do you think Lincoln's response to hate mail was? I'd reckon it probably wasn't "Ban them from using the mail!" Lol.
Didn't he become President Anonymous and never go outside again (but still put articles into Ye Olde White Dwarfe under his name and with his picture, naturally)?
Dammit guys, now I want an Abe Lincoln Rogue Trader mini!
2022/04/13 12:52:57
Subject: Crediting codex and rulebook writers and artists
Hecaton 804494 11344814 wrote:Just because you're credited in a work doesn't mean you have rights to it.
In some countries this means exactly that. In some countries you can't even be made to get rid of them, even if you sell them, the company that buys it still has to cite you as the creator. I assume GW would rather run on british law, because it is much better for companies and the state, then the inventor or art creator.
3. What do you think Lincoln's response to hate mail was? I'd reckon it probably wasn't "Ban them from using the mail!" Lol.
Well if it was durning or post civil war, then he would put them in jail, unless they had the backing of important wealthy families from the northern states. In the last case the families of such young men, were expected to send them to europe. For regular protesters the fact tha Lincoln suspended the habeas corpus act ment harsh imprisonment without trial.And it affected thousands of suspected traitors and war protesters. And to be branded a traitor and send to war prison all you needed to do, is to make local military angry.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/13 13:00:06
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2022/04/13 13:21:55
Subject: Crediting codex and rulebook writers and artists
Aren't the credits so long because unions in hollywood riot each time, someone tries to cut the 4th grip guy? I remember watching a hollywood history show on a french channel with my mom, and they had an interesting episode about how hard it was for the studios to move some of the credits to the end of the movie
You are correct, it is because organized labor fights to make sure their members are recognized and get credit to show when they try for their next job.
Credits on the poster and the front of the film are usually decided by contracts with the lead actors and behind the camera folks.
I think some of the credits are also affected by contract, "my company will give you a discount on catering but we want our name in the credits".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/13 13:38:48
2022/04/13 13:33:35
Subject: Re:Crediting codex and rulebook writers and artists
I don't really struggle with believing GW have done this for the reasons stated. You might say its only a few idiots, but the amount of frothing at the mouth directed at say Ward, Cruddace, Kelly sometimes etc a decade or so ago was fairly extreme.
This sort of nonsense aimed at celebrities, directors etc is bad - but they do at least make bags of money in the process.
2022/04/13 14:14:23
Subject: Crediting codex and rulebook writers and artists
Overread wrote: Honestly a LOT of model companies never credit the creator. At least not openly like on the product page; they might get a mention in a blog article now and then.
GW doesn't even have credits for their animations. The voice cast doesn't get recognised. The animators. Sound people. Anyone.
