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I think Boarding Action is a perfect way to bring Inquisition into 40K. Our group are doing an Inquisition wars mini campaign just using Boarding action. I’m going hereticus. Completely ignore building restrictions so I’m going to have Greyfax, 10 novitiates, 5 scions, some acolytes, 3 arch flagellants, 2 crusaders and a preacher.

Don’t need GW to dictate how I have fun. Our group is excited for the upcoming games.

 bullyboy wrote:
I think Boarding Action is a perfect way to bring Inquisition into 40K. Our group are doing an Inquisition wars mini campaign just using Boarding action. I’m going hereticus. Completely ignore building restrictions so I’m going to have Greyfax, 10 novitiates, 5 scions, some acolytes, 3 arch flagellants, 2 crusaders and a preacher.

Don’t need GW to dictate how I have fun. Our group is excited for the upcoming games.

That's a cool little list.

One of my favourite little lists that has always been legal is to load Kyria Draxus and a Watchmaster with a 10-strong Proteus Kill Team in a Corvus Blackstar. In battle, the Proteus Team splits, with half acting as the Honour Guard for the Inquisitor while the others guard the Watchmaster. That is a comic book Crusade force where everyone gets to be a character and share a ride.

But if I was going to throw out restrictions, I'd want to run Kyria with a Jokaero, a Zoat and some Corsairs- probably one unit of the elites and one of the regular troops units.

Another good one is Karamazov's Penitent Legion: It's Karamazov leading as many penitent engines, arco-flagellants, mortifiers and repentia as you can field. Using Necromunda Redemptionists as priests is cool for this army too. Arbitrators work really well with Karamazov because their role as police overlaps with his role as a judge, and they can fit as the custodians of the flagellants and penitent engines, so they can be made to fit the theme.

I'd want Greyfax to run with SoS and a band of acolytes converted from AoS and Cursed City Witch Hunters. If GW ever makes 40k rules for the Kharon Pattern Acquisitor. I'd drop the Acolytes and double down on the SoS and use the Acquisitor to transport the lot of them.

If I did Malleus, I'd load the '22 Store Anniversary Inquisitor (I forget his name) into a land raider with some GK. I haven't given this one much thought because I'm fairly new to GK, having only the contents of the Hexfire box to choose from and no land raider for the ride.

I thought Greyfax is psyker though, she might struggle with being in a box with a bunch of blanks...

 Haighus wrote:
I thought Greyfax is psyker though, she might struggle with being in a box with a bunch of blanks...

Yeah... True. I thought of them as a back-up for her, because they would be useful for hunting witches... But you're right, their abilities aren't targeted, nor do they come with an off switch. Maybe that needs a rethink.

In the Bequin novels there are machines that can block the null effect of a Blank and are small enough to be worn on the wrist.

Interestingly they seem to somehow amplify the impact of the null effect when they are suddenly turned off. Perhaps rather like a dam being opened on people going form no null effect around them to a sudden massive impact. So that even on regular people it has quite a marked impact.

 Overread wrote:
In the Bequin novels there are machines that can block the null effect of a Blank and are small enough to be worn on the wrist.

Interestingly they seem to somehow amplify the impact of the null effect when they are suddenly turned off. Perhaps rather like a dam being opened on people going form no null effect around them to a sudden massive impact. So that even on regular people it has quite a marked impact.

Rather than a stronger impact, like a dam breaking and pressure building up, I always interpreted this as a case of acclimatization or the lack thereof. Like a bad smell, you get used to it when your around it for a while or as you get closer to the source it gets stronger so you subconsciously brace yourself for it, but if it appears suddenly all at once it can be overwhelming and surprising, and seem to be stronger than a gradual exposure.

Given the rise of the Squats MkII, you'll have to wait 6 editions to be properly squatted.

Rumours of their demise may have been exaggerated?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/02/13/imperial-agents-datasheet-inquisitors-and-assassins-join-the-battle-against-the-arks-of-omen/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/kKj593HK6K628syU.pdf

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Rumours of their demise may have been exaggerated?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/02/13/imperial-agents-datasheet-inquisitors-and-assassins-join-the-battle-against-the-arks-of-omen/

Nobody expects the... and so on and so on.

Just posted in N&R as well.

Would’ve been nice to include Arbites too, but is what it is.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Just posted in N&R as well.

Would’ve been nice to include Arbites too, but is what it is.

On a first glance, the Vindicare seems adequately lethal in the right circumstances. Misread the Callidus, Eversor seems fine, Culexus is meh.

I've super excited!
This and a first Imperial force, and R&H via legends + core rules = free 40k rules!

 Blndmage wrote:
I've super excited!
This and a first Imperial force, and R&H via legends + core rules = free 40k rules!

Normally free rules mean that they're about to squat something.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
I've super excited!
This and a first Imperial force, and R&H via legends + core rules = free 40k rules!

Normally free rules mean that they're about to squat something.

I'd not read too much into it, this edition has about 3-6 months of life in it at the most, it's not like they intended to release an actual Inquisition codex in that timeframe anyway. It's probably intended as a slight boost for the standalone breachers box and the other stuff, not as the final nail in the Inquisition coffin.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Normally free rules mean that they're about to squat something.

Nah Free Rules means one of two things:

They can't make money off of it - They don't have enough content/buyers/etc to sell a book.

They want to make money off of it - new model releases like the Gravis Cap and Sword swinging Ancient.

 Blndmage wrote:
I've super excited!
This and a first Imperial force, and R&H via legends + core rules = free 40k rules!

Legends rules are no longer valid.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
I've super excited!
This and a first Imperial force, and R&H via legends + core rules = free 40k rules!

Legends rules are no longer valid.

No longer valid for Matched Play.
I can use them just fine.

 Blndmage wrote:
No longer valid for Matched Play.
I can use them just fine.

No longer valid for any game of 40k.

And yes, you can make up your own house rules but if you're going to do that why does it matter that the inquisition units got an update to be legal? You could make up your own house rules to use them before the update.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
No longer valid for Matched Play.
I can use them just fine.

No longer valid for any game of 40k.

Your previous thread where you claimed that was literally closed because you were wrong and GW still offers Legend rules on their pages, so let's not have that unnecessary discussion again.

 Blndmage wrote:
I've super excited!
This and a first Imperial force, and R&H via legends + core rules = free 40k rules!

Yep, they're back, but be prepared to lose nearly every single game. Not a single stat has changed from their 8th-ed Psychic Awakening rules (and even those were the same as the White Dwarf rules prior with some extra psychic powers and whatnot). Pretty much the only thing they gained out of this was the ability to take the Breachers and Voidsmen as Non-compulsory troops.

Jokero might be okay in Boarding Actions considering it packs some decent firepower in a mode that limits your heavy stuff. (Packs a S8 AP3 3D weapon on a WS4+ 3W, 20pt platform and hands out free rerolls)

Tsagualsa wrote:
Your previous thread where you claimed that was literally closed because you were wrong and GW still off

It was closed, that doesn't mean it was wrong. I cited the very clear statement that those models do not have rules, citing the legends rules as "proof" that the legends rules are still legal is self-referential nonsense. Nobody has cited any rule that would contradict the conclusion that if three models which only had rules in the legends document no longer have rules that must mean that the legends document no longer contains valid rules for 40k.

And this really shouldn't even be a controversial claim. We know that GW has abandoned legends rules (after putting minimal effort into making them) and does not keep them up to date with the rest of the game and we can pretty reasonably predict that they will not be included in 10th, so why is it surprising that GW would directly admit that they don't consider them legal rules anymore?

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
I've super excited!
This and a first Imperial force, and R&H via legends + core rules = free 40k rules!

Legends rules are no longer valid.

GW disagrees with you you know.

You can find the rules on the GW Community page under the FaQs & Downloads tab.

ccs wrote:
GW disagrees with you you know.

You can find the rules on the GW Community page under the FaQs & Downloads tab.

Failure to clean up obsolete downloads (which haven't been updated in 3+ years) doesn't make them legal when we have a more recent statement by GW that they are not valid rules.

 Blndmage wrote:

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
I've super excited!
This and a first Imperial force, and R&H via legends + core rules = free 40k rules!

Legends rules are no longer valid.

And why constrain yourself to these very specific forces when Wahapedia has all of the rules for free?

No longer valid for Matched Play.

Incorrect.
According to GW they state MIGHT not be valid for tournament play. They leave that up to the tournament organizers to decide. Go read the rules.

ccs wrote:
Incorrect.
According to GW they state MIGHT not be valid for tournament play. They leave that up to the tournament organizers to decide. Go read the rules.

Nope. That is an old statement in an old document that used to be legal, here is the more recent statement by GW when they put the old Krieg grenadier models up for MTO:

heavy flamer team wrote:
This single resin miniature is a fantastic addition to any Imperial Guard or Death Korps of Krieg collection. There are no rules for using it in games of Warhammer 40,000, but it will make for an excellent painting project, a great component in a larger diorama, or perhaps as a stand-in for another unit – just be sure to clear it with your opponent before it hits the tabletop!

melta and heavy stubber wrote:These resin miniatures depict two Death Korps of Krieg Grenadiers – one with a meltagun and a second with a heavy stubber. The meltagun-wielding miniature can be used as part of a Death Korps of Krieg squadron, forming the core of an Astra Militarum army, ready to capture objectives and fight to the last. While there are no rules available for the heavy stubber-wielding Grenadier, they are nonetheless a fantastic addition to any Imperial Guard or Death Korps of Krieg collection. Either model would make for an excellent painting project, could be used as components in a larger diorama, or perhaps as stand-ins for other miniatures – just be sure to clear it with your opponent before it hits the tabletop!

It's right there in black and white: these models do not have rules but can be a cool painting project or be used as proxies for units which do have rules. And there is nothing about tournament play in there. It says "no rules" not "may not be valid in tournaments" or "can still be used in narrative or open play games" or whatever. If legends rules were valid rules in any format then both of the quoted statements would be false so it is very clear that GW does not consider legends rules valid.

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
I've super excited!
This and a first Imperial force, and R&H via legends + core rules = free 40k rules!

Yep, they're back, but be prepared to lose nearly every single game. Not a single stat has changed from their 8th-ed Psychic Awakening rules

Well the points changed in the MFM. And yeah I wouldn't make an entire army out of them, Points (updates) for the Breachers etc suggest most of their upgrades are free - though the MFM came first, and the Datasheets came second so who knowns if the MFM is valid points for em. Its more headache than I'd want to get into - that said Breacher Squads with hidden power axes and chain fists have some humor appeal. But mostly I'm figuring most people would just add an Inquisitor, Assassin or both and that's about it because of the 1 per limit. If they did add an allied Inquisitor Only Det, there is some potential there - IG might like the Acolytes for power weapons and thunder hammers but it'd be expensive since they didn't get the reduced upgrade costs - JOKAERO WEAPONSMITH isn't going to be much interest to the Marines who already have Las Fusil and Talons, guard probably already have access to better as well. DAEMONHOST are about the only thing I saw interesting enough to bother with a new Det. But I'm still likely to stick with none or a rare Inquisitor/Assassin for their shenanigans only if I have points to burn. The Callidus is best, Vindicare second best probably. The Calidus is probably even its current points good. Pop And Chop is better than 50/50 for it. D6+ 3 is slightly less than the average of 2D6. The Bonus CP cost is just frosting.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

ccs wrote:
Incorrect.
According to GW they state MIGHT not be valid for tournament play. They leave that up to the tournament organizers to decide. Go read the rules.

Nope. That is an old statement in an old document that used to be legal, here is the more recent statement by GW when they put the old Krieg grenadier models up for MTO:

heavy flamer team wrote:
This single resin miniature is a fantastic addition to any Imperial Guard or Death Korps of Krieg collection. There are no rules for using it in games of Warhammer 40,000, but it will make for an excellent painting project, a great component in a larger diorama, or perhaps as a stand-in for another unit – just be sure to clear it with your opponent before it hits the tabletop!

melta and heavy stubber wrote:These resin miniatures depict two Death Korps of Krieg Grenadiers – one with a meltagun and a second with a heavy stubber. The meltagun-wielding miniature can be used as part of a Death Korps of Krieg squadron, forming the core of an Astra Militarum army, ready to capture objectives and fight to the last. While there are no rules available for the heavy stubber-wielding Grenadier, they are nonetheless a fantastic addition to any Imperial Guard or Death Korps of Krieg collection. Either model would make for an excellent painting project, could be used as components in a larger diorama, or perhaps as stand-ins for other miniatures – just be sure to clear it with your opponent before it hits the tabletop!

It's right there in black and white: these models do not have rules but can be a cool painting project or be used as proxies for units which do have rules. And there is nothing about tournament play in there. It says "no rules" not "may not be valid in tournaments" or "can still be used in narrative or open play games" or whatever. If legends rules were valid rules in any format then both of the quoted statements would be false so it is very clear that GW does not consider legends rules valid.

Can you provide a link? There's plenty of historic examples of Warhammer Community preview articles and even GW Webstore descriptions being inaccurate, so it would be interesting to see the context for these.

Even if the specific examples are accurate and in a rules context, is there anything explicitly stating Legends datasheets as a whole are no longer legal for any mode of play? Because GW's site certainly seems to think they're legal:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/legends/#warhammer-40000

The Warhammer 40,000 Legends page contains datasheets and additional wargear options, definitive profiles that will live on their own dedicated page, enabling you to unleash your treasured classics in open, narrative and matched play games, with full points provided to help you balance your games.

Aelyn wrote:
Can you provide a link?

Unfortunately they seem to have been removed once the MTO period ended. But the quotes are taken directly from the product pages on the GW store.

Even if the specific examples are accurate and in a rules context, is there anything explicitly stating Legends datasheets as a whole are no longer legal for any mode of play?

No, but there doesn't need to be anything explicit. If the quotes are accurate then it is an indisputable consequence that legends rules are not valid. There is nothing in any of the available material that even comes close to suggesting that the three specific upgrades to one legends unit were meant to be singled out for invalidation without changing any of the other rules so either the item descriptions were false or legends rules as a whole are not valid rules anymore.

And, again, this should not be a controversial claim. GW's actions have made it very clear that they don't consider legends rules to be real rules, the product descriptions only confirm what we already knew and (should) prove it to the last hold outs who stubbornly insist that legends rules are valid.

Because GW's site certainly seems to think they're legal:

Except that the page is older than the more recent statements that they aren't legal. It's clear that GW called them legal rules at some point in the past (mostly to get people to stop complaining as they soft-banned OOP units and options in preparation for removing them entirely) but the site hasn't been updated in ages and the rule documents are 3-4 years old. It's all just old material that hasn't been cleaned up yet, probably because GW doesn't care enough about the obsolete stuff to pay attention to it until they mass delete the entire download section with the arrival of 10th.

...since when was July 2022 3-4 years ago?

 Dysartes wrote:
...since when was July 2022 3-4 years ago?

That's a single document which added a couple of datasheets to get people to shut up about a couple of removed CSM options. Other than that GW hasn't touched any of it since December 2020 (the FW pseudo-rules) and everything else was last updated in April 2019. GW using legends one more time as a dumping ground and PR move doesn't change the fact that legends in general have been abandoned and are not being treated as real rules.