Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It has been suggested that I replace all my gernade launchers with plasma and melta guns.  I have an Imperial Guard Army and would need to replace 23 gerande launchers.

I have had such bad luck with plasma guns that I do not like to use them.  I roll a 1 almost every time I fire one and can never make a save.

So what to you think, Captain K, Mahu, Me Person and anyone else.

Warrior 50

You should field plasma guns. The AP and strength is necissary a lot of the time, even if they do kill your troops.

You should always field the plasmaguns....grenade launchers are utter crap. For 2pts more you get a weapon with 6" greater range, 1pt higher strength and a AP low enough that it hurts any unit in the game. Whether or not you lose guys isn't relevent. You'll lose guys regardless...guard die in droves. However, by taking plasmaguns, you at least get some nice retribution. Think of it this way a terminator with assault cannon is 62pts. If you kill him that 10 man squad just earned most of their points back. Something to think about.

Capt K

@ Capt´n K ; both the grenade launcher and plasma gun have a range of 24"... Though the plasma gun is Rapid Fire while the ´launcher is Assault 1.

If you are using vets or storm troopers with BS 4 I might consider meltas, otherwise go for the rapid fire double tap of plasmaguns.

Plasma, Plasma, Plasma. The best thing you can do in a Gaurd army is have as much redundency in your units and weapon choices as possible. The more Plasma you field, the better.

I thought the GL had an 18" range....huh...Well see? the gun sucks so bad that I don't even know the range. Again the important thing it that for 2pts more you are getting a superior weapon.

Meltaguns are useful drop squads...or special weapon teams. An Ideal loadout for a special weapon team would be 2 meltaguns and a democharge, maybe add a vet sgt with plasma pistol...

Capt K

i personally side with meltas, yeah plasma have beter range but meltas:

.they do not overheat

 .work better on tanks and MEQ models with multiple wounds

. they auto pen with ap1 and auto kill with S8 against MEQ models

They also only have a 12 inch range, and that means you only get one shot a game if you are lucky. If the melta had an 18 inch range I would think about them in line squads. But not 12. Meltas belong in suicide drop squads, or infiltrating squads. Plasma sits next to your heavy weapons.

ECHO, Echo, echo....echo.

So yah, plasma for rank and file troops, melta for drop pods or other rush up, fire once and die squads.

Guess I will have to build a few to replace the gernade launchers.  Yes it is range 24" and uses the small template if you fire a frag gernade.

Has anyone tried to make plasma guns from bits?

Warrior 50

Thanks guys, this will save me much head ache in the future .

Yes Warrior 50 you can make plasmaguns from plasma pistol bits. All those Plasma pistol bitz that are left over from you marines would work. A little bit of cutting and gluing and you have plasmaguns. I have to do this with my praetorians, since GW never made a praetorian with a PG. So I have to convert all mine. It can be done!

Capt K

You can also order them from Battlewagon Bits. 2 for $3. Its a deal if you don't need anything else.

If you need other bits, or feel like converting Plas Pistols, just order a few Marine upgrade sprues from GW. There you get one Plasmagun, 2 PlasPistols, 1 Melta, 1 Flamer and a bunch of other stuff for $6.

You can do melta conversions by just procuring some thin pipe from any hobby/model shop, cutting bits and sticking them on the ends of the grenade launcher.

Yes I have made some melta guns by using evergreen plastic tubing an making a back pack for them out of bits.  I used the stock of a flamer for the gun storck on my melta guns and the flamer backpack I took one tank off and made a backpack for a melta gun.

I just have had such bad luck with plasma guns that I don't like to use them.

After discussing this with my gaming friends I am going to make some guardsmen with plasma guns to use with my troops.  I have 3 painted and ready to go, 4 more on the painting table.  That leaves 16 to be made if I replace every gernade launcher in my force.

Thanks for the help everyone.

After discussing this with my gaming friends I am going to make some guardsmen with plasma guns to use with my troops. I have 3 painted and ready to go, 4 more on the painting table. That leaves 16 to be made if I replace every gernade launcher in my force.

Another "GW's army lists with grenade launchers were wrong" moment brought to you by Dakka Dakka.

"It has been suggested that I replace all my gernade launchers with plasma and melta guns. I have an Imperial Guard Army and would need to replace 23 gerande launchers.

I have had such bad luck with plasma guns that I do not like to use them. I roll a 1 almost every time I fire one and can never make a save.
"

i think a piece of this puzzle is missing. how do you fair using the GL?

not as bad as the plasma is doing for you. or the same, you're just not

blowing yourself up?

if you're changing them all out because you want to try something different,

that's one thing. but if you're changing them out due to peer pressure, bigchris1313

is right.

I love plasma guns! The added risk of having a man blow up makes for a very exciting game, especially if you have Cleanse and Purify trait with 2 in every squad! Yeehaw!! a 3+sv gets mighty boring when you lose no one to a massive torrent of fire and you promptly charge into a Eldar firing line... however it is still amusing

Thanks for the advice you all.  I have 8 plasma guns, although I am painting 5 at this time.  I am going to try them with my force in a COD mega battle next Saturday.  That way I only have to replace 5 in my existing squads for a 1000 point force.

Warrior 50

I would go plasma for effectiveness, meltas and grenade launchers if you find them more fun. I've had lists that won 9 out of 10 games that were a heck of a lot less fun to play than lists that lose lots. (My favorite amusing list right now is built around 15 man templar squads on foot. I know I can get 20, but 20 is unwieldy.)

For this sort of conversion work I would recommend a pin vice. Since you are working with small pieces that are easily broken off (especially when guardsmen jump to their death off of cityfight terrain), you want to make the model as durable as possible.

But Ninja, with plasma guns you get all the fun of your own guys burning alive!

Exactly!!

"Melta vs plasma guns"

Apples and Oranges. You cannot compare a Melta to a Plasma as they're designed for different purposes. It'd be like comparing a Heavy Bolter and a Lascannon and declaring the Lascannon a better weapon because its better at killing AV14 vehicles than the Heavy Bolter.

Meltaguns are short-ranged anti-tank weapons used for toasting vehicles or insta-killing T4 nasties that happen to get to close (like Marine characters). They can also do a number on units of Terminators should you get enough Meltaguns into range (4 in a dropping Command Section, or 3 in an H-Vet squad - although arguably the Plasmagun is better at that).

The Meltagun goes not go well with any other weapon besides other Meltaguns - it is too short range and specific to be mixed with anything else. It is a common misconception to mix Meltaguns and Lascannons as they're both anti-tank weapons. They might be both anti-tank weapons, but the Lascannon has an effective range of 0-48", whereas the Meltagun has an effective range of 0-6". They are not a 'matched pair'.

The Plasma Gun on the other hand is a pure support weapon. It exists to support the heavy weapon, be it a Lascannon or an Autocannon (and, at a pinch, the Heavy Bolter if you're desperate/have more points than sense). The S7 fits with the Autocannon's S7, and the AP2 fits with the Lascannon's AP2. They compliment the HW, and as such as a superior weapon to any other wepaon you might pair with an AC or LC.

So, what we actually can compare is the Grenade Launcher to the Plasma Gun, and the Grenade Launcher to the Flamer, and the Grenade Launcher to the Meltagun.

The Grenade Launcher, like the Missile Launcher, serves no purpose in a Guard army. Flamers are better at killing infantry than Frag Grenades, and Plasma Guns are better at killing heavy infantry than Krak Grenades. An S6 AP4 weapon that shoots out to 24" is meaningless in a Guard army when for 2 points more you can change that to an S7 AP2 weapon. If you want S6 guns, take Multi-Lasers. They're far superior as they three times as many shots, and have a longer range.

"It has been suggested that I replace all my gernade launchers with plasma and melta guns.  I have an Imperial Guard Army and would need to replace 23 gerande launchers."

And replacing the GL's in the line squads with Plasmas would go a long way to strengthening the list. Where are the other GL's in your list?

BYE

I actually use many grenade launchers to great effect with my Junior Officers. Having four in one squad help. i use them as walking fire support. They never really get too close to anything, so that 24 inch range with an assault weapon is nice. When at range they work better than plasmaguns when facing anything but marines, or necron as you can MOVE and shoot.

Grenade Launchers and Missile Launchers have their place in smaller games, where you have to shave points and where you don't have enough squads to field Lascannons *and* Heavy Bolters. They're cheaper all-purpose weapons.

Yes, the Flamer is better than frag grenades or missiles, but the range is a real killer. Frag templates are really nice against hordes of gaunts, and orks, especially when you can retreat and fire.

Actually my first IG game I fielded all GLs and MLs, and had the luck to go up against Harlequins (their holo-save doesn't count against blast weapons). It was template goodness until one unit outflanked me and rolled my lines (whoops).

looper has used grenade launchers to VERY good effect against me, any indirect hand held weapon is pretty sweet IMO and if I could have them I think I would be all over taking them.

Well, they're not indirect, it's just that they can move and fire.

Move and fire range of plasma guns = 18"
Move and fire range of melta guns = 18"
Move and fire range of grenade launchers = 30"

It's significant. And S6 is enough to damage MCs, possibly knock down light skimmers and transports. It also almost auto-wounds any infantry. 2+ small blasts on anything with Sv 6+ (ie a lot of hordes) doesn't suck either.

If you're dropping your command sections as suicide squads, then plasma is the way to go (save melta for the BS4 Veterans as noted previously). If you're not dropping them, then having a few mobile 4xGL squads running around in the lines isn't a bad thing...

After seeing frag grenades from 4 grenade launchers in a command squad decimate 6 Chaos marines in a turn, I don't see what's so bad about them. Especially since the original poster is going into a COD tournament, the templates will help against things in cover, denying them a cover save that can be easily put to use against a plasma or melta gun.

Well, they're not indirect, it's just that they can move and fire.

But the real question is: why are you moving? You should be standing still and firing everything, unless you've taken Abhumans and Slave Levies, in which case you still shouldn't be taking grenade launchers.