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1850 rogue trader. The turnout wasn't great, but it was still fun.

Hq

Shas'el- plasma rifle, missile pod , hw-mt ,targetting array-97

shas'el-same-97

Elites

2 fireknives-plasma, missile, multi tracker-124

fireknife team leader with targetting array-77

fireknife team leader with targetting array-77

Troops

10 firewarriors-100

devil fish-multi-tacker, array, decoy-100

10 firewarriors-100

devil fish-same-100

10 firewarriors-100

devilfish-same-100

Fast

piranha-fusion, decoy, array-75

piranha-same-75

piranha-same-75

Heavy

Hammerhead-rail, sms, mt, decoy, target lock-180

hammerhead-same-180

hammerhead-same-180

Other armies: 7 marines, 1 dark eldar, 1 USF, another tau, 1 lost and the damned, 1 chaos

 

Round 1

mission "the hunted": Victory points with bonus points for killing a nominated unit

VS Tau

His army: hammerhead, shas'o, pathfinders, 6 crisis suits, stealth squad, 2 fire warrior squads, ethereal, sniper drones, big kroot unit

Game Highlights:

On turn one I got a back shot on his hammerhead with smart missiles and killed it. Not much else notable happened. My army performed exactly how it should have and I tabled him.

win + max battle points-18 points

Game two

mission "this if 'eavy, doc" victory points with some stupid gravity table to roll on. 2d6+N N= # of turn it is.  3-10 high gravity all movements -d6" 11-12 normal 13+ high gravity movements +d6"

VS lost and the damned

his army: Khorne glaive stature lord, bloodthirster, raptors, bikes (with mocu so they are elites, though I did question this as I thought it only applied to chaos space marine squads, not chaos space marine bikes), 3 min sized tratiors with las cannons, hell hound, 2 gibbering hordes (his compulsory troops), basilisk, furies, bloodletters, daemonettes

Highlights: At the end of my turn three, only things left were his raptors, 1 bike, gibbering hordes, weaponless hellhound, and a 1 wound bloodthirster. I had lost 1 hammer head, 1 devil fish, 1 fire warrior squad, and two piranhas (so it looked like I was gonna get a crushing victory). His turn three, all his daemons come in. Over the rest of the game he doesn't kill any more tanks but he kills everyting else. Over 2 more turns, all I kill is his bloodthirster and his daemonettes. (I rolled really bad, and he got lucky with scatters for his daemons). Since his raptor squad was so huge and expensive and he kept it hidden the whole time, I lost.

Loss-1 battle point+2 battle points= 6

Game three

mission: victory points with sustained assault

VS Space marines that belong to Mahu

his army:

1 Master @ 527 Pts
Terminator Command Squad; Lightning Claw (x2); Furious Charge
1 Master-Crafted Weapon
1 Terminator Armor
3 Terminator Command Squad @ ??] Pts
Storm Bolter (x1); Power Fist (x3); Assault Cannon (x2); Furious Charge
1 Epistolary @ ??] Pts
Psychic Hood; Force Weapon; Storm Shield; Fear of the Darkness; Fury of the Ancients; Furious Charge
1 Psychic Hood
1 Terminator Armor
1 Sergeant @ ?] Pts
Furious Charge

5 Tactical Squad @ 115 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1); Plasmagun (x1)
1 Sergeant @ ?] Pts
Bolter

5 Tactical Squad @ 115 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1); Plasmagun (x1)
1 Sergeant @ ?] Pts
Bolter

5 Tactical Squad @ 115 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1); Plasmagun (x1)
1 Sergeant @ ?] Pts
Bolter

9 Tactical Squad @ 235 Pts
Bolter (x7); Meltagun (x1); Meltagun (x1)
1 Sergeant @ ?] Pts
Terminator Honors; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Fist (x1)
1 Drop Pod @ ?] Pts
Storm Bolter
1 Power of the Machine Spirit

5 Scout Squad @ 116 Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW (x1); Bolter (x3); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ ?] Pts
Terminator Honors; Close Combat Weapon (x1); Combi-Meltagun
1 Teleport Homer

5 Assault Squad @ 224 Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW (x3); Flamer (x2); Frag Grenades; Melta-Bombs; Furious Assault
1 Sergeant @ ?] Pts
Terminator Honors; Lightning Claw (x2); Frag Grenades; Melta-Bombs; Furious Assault
1 Teleport Homer

2 Land Speeder Squadron @ 160 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x2); Assault Cannon (x2)

5 Devastator Squad @ 150 Pts
Bolter (x2); Missile Launcher (x3)
1 Sergeant @ ?] Pts
Bolter

1 Whirlwind @ 93 Pts
Whirlwind Multiple Missile Launcher
1 Extra Armor
1 Smoke Launchers

Highlights: Game went back and forth really, in the first two turns, I killed his scout squad twice (sustained attack) and a las/plas squad. He downed a devil fish and blew off a rail gun. His drop pod and his command squad deep struck on turn two. from turn 2-4 it looked like I was losing, but once his assault squad fell back off the table, and with 2 shas'els shooting rapid fire plasma into his two squads I was able to wipe out the command squad (but not the characters), and kill the drop pod squad. One piranha made it to and killed his whirlwind, and the piranhas gun drones tied up his devestators for 4 turns and dropped them below half. In the end he had two wounded characters left, two las plas squads, 1 speeder, half a devestator squad. I had two hammerheads, two piranhas, both shas'els, 1.5 fire warrior squads and a devil fish.

Win+ max battle points=18

A space marine army went 3-0 (because of the bye), and won the overall.

I won best sportsman, Capt K won best painted, Lazarus won best general. Pretty suprising for me to win best sportsman, as I questioned someone's army list, tabled some one, and used LOS sniping and range sniping on Mahu's command squad to kill assault cannon terminators. 3 things that often could make some one tank your scores.

I don't understand that LatD list.  The demon packs would be elite choices, as would any allied CSM choices with marks of chaos -- so if the raptors and the bikes were marked, that would make 5 elite choices. 

And in any event, an LatD list can only include one allied elite choice, so your opponent should not have been able to field a marked squad of raptors and a marked squad of bikers.  (If those squads were in fact unmarked, the list is still illegal, as he can only field one allied fast choice.)

So your suspicions were generally on target.  (Although it is true an allied squad of raptors and/or bikers with a mark is an elite choice -- he got that part right.)

I can't ever keep track of all the craziness that Choas can do regarding legality of lists.

 

It's not surprising that you won Best Sportsman as you are not an argumentative player in general. Garreth problably shrugged off your questioning of his list as that comes with Chaos and Mahu knows that LOS sniping is part of the game. Tableing someone does not automatically shred your sportsmanship if they are a stand up player.

I think that second scenario was utterly horrible. It casued my whole army to not move for 2 turns. (lol)

 

I also hate the bye system (lol). 2 tourneys in a row he gets an automatic win.

 

Lazarus.

 

 

Congratualtions guys on the wins and awards.

Me_Person, you are the most easy going player I have played against and very helpful on clearing up points of confusion.  So I appricate your help and fairness.  Congratualtions on the Sportsman award.

By the way what is tabling a player?  Is that kinda of like a win in two turns?

Anyway Congratulations again.

Warrior 50

Tabling is when you completely wipe some one's army off the table, usually the person doing the tabling also looses very few things in return. For example, he killed one devil fish and one piranha, meaning he got 175 victory points, I killed his whole army so I got 1850 victory points, plus I killed his hunted squad, a 160 point fire warrior squad, so I got around 2010 victory points.

Let me try and clarify his list. The raptors were unmarked, the bikes were marked. He had two daemon packs and one daemon beast pack (the furies). Bikes+two daemon packs= 3 elites. Hell hound+ raptors+furies=3 fast attack.

I just figured it out... His daemon prince was Illegal. Glaive-40, armor-20, stature-15, strength-10, resilience-10, essence-15, feel no pain-10, mutation-15=135 points of daemonic gifts... Mutation is actually a guess, as he had 9 attacks on the charge, glaive doubles 3=6+khorne=7+charge=8 and glaive is two handed so he must have also had mutation. Even without mutation or strength, he was still illegal.

 I know he used to abuse the hell out of the infiltrate rules....

 

Lazarus.

Well, I've brought it up to mark before but he said it was legal, and he's the judge, so I trusted his judgement as I had not actually seen his army list and I killed it in one rail last time. This time I killed with a hell of a lot of plasma. Though this isn't speculation, this is fact.

His prince was Illegal

glaive, stature, resilience, essence, armor, feel no pain= 110 points and on those I'm 100% sure he had. For the stength 6 he might have had furious charge. He also might have thought the glaive double the attacks after applying the mark of khorne, so might not have had daemonic mutation.

It doesn't matter anyway, his prince did nothing to me, and I killed it early any ways.

Illegal is still illegal any way you want to look at it. Something to remember for future games. Btw, I wanted to play him pretty bad yesterday....I think my list would have given him fits (lol)

 

Lazarus.

Did you guys just make another accusation of cheating even though you lost to another gamer?

please stop this already at chicago GT I had some people ask me about it.



Just get over losing and things happen, bad dice, rock-paper-scissiors, matchups.

The Glaive is not a demonic gift nor is feel no pain.

Sci-Fi people please refrain from it. I am not saying anything against your skills but sometimes its all to the matchup and armylist.

Did you guys just make another accusation of cheating even though you lost to another gamer?

No, one  person thought  his deamon prince was illegal which has happened in the past. Believe me, plenty of times when some of the lists are audited at tourneys illegal princes turn up the most as list "errors". If it was due to an incorrect assumption of wargear / demonic classification then it obviously isn't the case here. However, if you thought a rule worked a certain way you could see how it would look like that. Me-Person made no complaints whatsoever about this before....

I can't count how many times I have played someone to later look through their codex and find that things they did during the game was illegal. There is certainly nothing wrong with looking into it either way.

Just get over losing and things happen, bad dice, rock-paper-scissiors, matchups.

He certainly did not blame his loss on this issue and even went to say that it didn't matter one way or the other as he killed the prince early. Seems like there is always someone wanting to make an issue of something that is not.

To occassionly suspect that someone is dishonest or makes "mistakes" is normal. I can assure you that organizers who regularly check their lists instead of just looking over them casually will find these "mistakes".

Once you have your house robbed you tend to lock your doors. Does that mean that I think you specifically will try to steal something? No, I just know that someone will.

The Glaive is not a demonic gift nor is feel no pain.

Thank you for the clarification. I don't have the chaos codex handy and since Me_Person plays chaos as well I just accepted what he said of the lord.

Sci-Fi people please refrain from it. I am not saying anything against your skills but sometimes its all to the matchup and armylist.

This has absolutley nothing  to do with Sci-Fi-City at all. If all  gamers are to tell me that they have never once had someone cheat or make "mistakes" in a game I'll call them a liar now.

With that said let's just move on with this.

 

Lazarus.

 

Daemon weapons DO count against daemonic gifts. Pg 14 of the chaos codex.
" The following Daemon weapons can be used by any model irrespective of the mark of chaos they bear. Other examples can be found in the books of chaos. The cost of a daemon weapon counts towards the total spend on daemonic gifts."

pg 47 of chaos codex lists the berzerker glaive as a daemon weapon.

pg 14 chaos codex under gifts of the gods
"All gifts except physcic powers are considered daemonic gifts."

Feel no pain and the berzerker glaive are daemonic gifts. Its the same honest mistake I used to make when I was first playing a khorne army. Also, in Sci'fi's tournaments, the only time a daemon prince was illegal was a while ago and when it happend, the judge just made him fix his prince mid game and everything was fine. I dont want him to take his chaos army to some tournament and get disqualified for having a illegal prince.

Well, if what Me_Person just posted is correct then what does that mean? A mistake?

 

Lazarus.

Daemon weapons = gift. Feel No Pain = Khornate gift. I play World Eaters, so I know the limits. That was an illegal character.

I have played the L&tD player many times and I have never once had any issues with him. He is competitive, can create hard army lists, and knows how to exploit the strengths of his army. He is also a lot of fun to play!

The last time I played against him at SciFi I was impressed with his loadout for the Khornate DP and asked him how he runs it:

Berserker Glaive -> 40
Deamonic Armor -> 20
Deamonic Stature -> 15
Deamonic Essence -> 15
Feel No Pain -> 10

He uses furious charge to up his strength to S6 on turns he charges. Furious charge is a veteran skill, which does not count toward deamonic gifts.

- GB

He told me his daemon prince had toughness 6. Meaning he had daemonic resilience. I failed to wound his guy 4 times because he told me his guy had toughness 6. He is fun to play against, and is a very good player. Which is why I dont want him to get disqualified from a tournament for having an illegal daemon prince. At least he is only ten points over, a generaly easy fix, just drop the toughness.

Also, I think he might be using one aspect of the glaive wrong. I'm pretty sure the glaive doubles the character's base attacks, not after applying the +1 attack for the mark of khorne. He was using 9 attacks on the charge, meaning he applied the doubling to 4 attacks (3 base + 1 for khorne), and adding one to 8. If the multiplication was used after modifiers, then a khorne glaive lord with mutation would have 10 attacks standing still.

 

Edit*** I checked the chaos codex, it does say "doubles the basic number of attacks on his profile."

So without mutation, a khorne lord has 8 attacks on the charge.

Yeah, no one said he wasn't a good guy. It was only brought up that some mistakes were made. Hell, we all went and ate dinner together after tha game.

 

Lazarus.

I'd bet money that it was simply an honest mistake. What I've gathered from all this is that his army list was not illegal, but he thought his prince had resilience, which would have made it illegal, but again, simply a mistake. I look forward to the next Rtt and a chance to get a rematch.

Gareth is a straight shooter when it comes to lists. It was probably an honest mistake (if at all). If the list was made with army builder, sometimes that program isn't always right. As for everyone else's comments....let it go. Nobody here is painting him in a bad light and like Lazarus said we are friends with the guy and all had dinner afterwards and told war stories of past tournaments and such. So to all people that are trying to project a negativity of gamers of Sci-Fi or the Orlando area...knock it off. It serves no purpose to promote gaming in the area and ultimately seems self-serving for your own agendas. Further more, I will personally vouch for Gareth's talent, character quality, etc. as a player. He is a cagey player and is a great member of the gaming community in Orlando!

Capt K

Where did you guys eat at?

I agree with everything capt k said. Green bloater pointed out was Gareth uses on his lord, and I believe Gareth just thought his lord had toughness 6, which would have made the lord illegal. As capt k would tell you, I've made plenty of mistakes with all the chaos rules. Mistakes happen, thats why they put the delete key on keyboards, I never said it was any thing else then a mistake.

Where did you guys eat at?

I couldn't go, so I dont know...

We ate at Don Pablo's. Tasty mexican food! It was: Me, Gareth, his GF, Lazarus, Mahu, and someone from Rhubarb Games whose name escapes me at the moment. We had a great time and were there until close. Good times.

Capt K

You forgot someone CaptK...

Here is my report of the same tournament:

Game 1 Versus Space Marines

Her list:

Master with Jumpack

4 x 10-man Space Marine Squads with various Heavy Weapons

2 x 10 Devestator Squads with Max Lascannons

Dread. in Drop Pod

Well, long story short. I tabled her. It wasn't too hard, she is a rookie and made a few mistakes (deploying out of cover, over extending her Master, etc.) The real stars of this game where my Assault Marines, I jump from behind cover to behind cover and hit her lines. They killed a Tactical Sqaud, and both Devestator Squads. Furious Charge on a Lighting Squad Sergent worked every time.


Game 2 versus Lazarus' Uthwe Strike Force

His list:

20-man Seer Council

3 Gaurdian Squads

Firedragons

2 D-Cannon Batteries

3 Vipers


Like he already posted, the scenario really messed him up in the first few turns. However it did help him near the end allowing his Council to go from Assault to Assault and avoid all the shooting I had. In the end he had 3 Firedragons, a D-Cannon Battery, 3 Firedragons, and 8 Members of the Seer Council. I know I would have won that game if my Marines died when I wanted them too rather than stick around to die in my turn allowing the council to junp to the next squad in his. Since he got half points for that squad, it pushed the game into the Draw range.


And Game 3 was versus Me_Person's Mech Tau:

I won't go into this one, except to say that the highlight for me was to have two single Crisis Suits run of the board because of Fear.

All in all a great event, and I look forward to the next RTT. Congradulations to Ernie (if you where at the Necro, he was the one with the great Crinsom Fists Army) he deserved it. He got the by on the first round, won his second game, and beat Gareth in the third round to get the prize.

Lazarus also had an avatar with warlocks from the ulthwe strike force.

Ernie's Crimson Fists are one of my favorite armies ever. Every model has a conversion and are well painted. I am glad he got a lucky break for the first round bye. No one is more deserving... well except for maybe Super Fly. LOL

Posted By Me_Person on 07/31/2006 10:53 AM
Lazarus also had an avatar with warlocks from the ulthwe strike force.

I knew I forgot something.

I did forget someone. Rich was with us at the restaurant too. Capt K

Yeah Ernie's army is really cool. While his drop pod scratch builds are probably some of the best I've seen, forgeworld pods would make that army even better IMHO.
Capt K

So to all people that are trying to project a negativity of gamers of Sci-Fi or the Orlando area...knock it off. It serves no purpose to promote gaming in the area and ultimately seems self-serving for your own agendas.

I have no agenda, I've never been to Orlando and will never play you or any of the others from Sci-fi City. But you have to admit this is starting to look fishy.

@ Crimson Devil: If that is your opinion you are entitled to it. I care not. I know the person I am and so what you say matters little. As for "fishy"....WTF? Dude we game with this guy on a regular basis. A mistake is a mistake and if you read the posts nobody really is coming down on him, because IF it was a mistake it probably was an honest one and at the end of the day it wasn't game breaking.

I find it funny how outsiders keep bringing up the Necro, or Sci-Fi (which most of them have never been to) when most of us on the forum have moved past it....it's old news. So in a way you are pushing a personal agenda...your personal bias against a group of people, a certain store, and vocalizing it to people that may not have all the right info about said mentionables.

Capt K