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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey guys,
I'm getting back into 40k and realize a need to restructure my guard army to transition into 4th edition. I've taken what I learned playing 3rd edition and reading over a lot of what the resident IG gurus have said and created a basis of my army. The list I cooked up is only 1792 at the moment, so there's wiggle room to make improvements and suggestions. I'm looking for any comments and really hoping for some advice from the likes of H.B.M.C and other experienced guard commanders.

     Doctrines:
     Allow Rough Riders
     Regimental Organisation: Drop Troops
     Skills and Drills: Iron Discipline
     Skills and Drills: Sharp Shooters

 Command Platoon (HQ) @ 336 Pts
     3 Command Squad @ 56 Pts
          Lasguns; Iron Discipline
          1 Junior Officer
          1 Veteran w/ Lasgun; Standard Bearer

     6 Anti Tank Squad @ 95 Pts
          Missile Launcher (x3); Lasguns

     6 Fire Support Squad @ 90 Pts
          Heavy Bolter (x3); Lasguns; SharpShooters

     6 Fire Support Squad @ 95 Pts
          Autocannon (x3); Lasguns

 Infantry Platoon (Troops) @ 439 Pts
     4 Command Squad @ 154 Pts
          Flamer (x4); Iron Discipline
          1 Junior Officer w/ Close combat Weapon; Laspistol
          1 Chimera @ 85 Pts
               Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Bolter

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts

Infantry Platoon (Troops) @ 399 Pts
     4 Command Squad @ 149 Pts
          Flamer (x4); Iron Discipline
          1 Junior Officer @ 40 Pts
          1 Chimera @ 80 Pts
               Multi-Laser

     9 Infantry Squad  @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts

5 Hardened Veterans (Elites) @ 83 Pts
     Lasguns (x2); Plasma Guns (x3); Drop Trooper
     1 Hardened Veteran Sergeant w/ Close combat Weapon; Laspistol @ 13 Pts

5 Rough Riders (Fast Attack) @ 55 Pts
     Hunting Lances

1 Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Support) @ 145 Pts
     Battle Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter

1 Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Support) @ 145 Pts
     Battle Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter

1 Leman Russ Demolisher (Heavy Support) @ 155 Pts
     Demolisher Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter

Models in Army: 109
Total Army Cost: 1792

The platoon commands and rough riders are intended as counter-charge, the hardened vets are to drop in and get rear shots on heavy armor. Line squads are las/plas so they can take any range of things. 5 pieces of armor, though im not sure if the demolisher is outfitted in the most effective manner (it is modeled in the las/plas fashion however).

I'm totally flexible in anything. I see room for improvement in the heavy weapon squads in the command section. How could I better disseminate them into the army? Where should my extra 60 points go? Any help would be appreciated.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




NJ

Questions:
1) You aren't using Vet SGT's in your line sqds are you? I ask because you have them listed as 6 points. If you are, drop them and use the points in a better way.

Potential Changes:
1) I would add sponson HB's to the LRD. They make up for the Demo Canon's lack of range.
2) HB to Chimera 2
3) Upgrade RR SGT to Vet. Since they will potentially be out of the LD bubble. I also prefer 6 in a sqd for the extra wound.
4) Hardened Vets. Drop the CCW/ pistol from the SGT. Since he won't have a hope of using it, you may as well take the better option of a lasgun and BS4.
5) Sharp Shooters on your other HB and ML Sqd . You used a doctrine point for it, may as well give it to more than 1 sqd.
6) Stubbers to the Chimerae?

Definitely a good list to start off with. Optimizing it should be a snap for ya since you didn't bother with the junk most people use.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Imperial Guard Sergeants do cost 6 points, like every other Guardsmen. If he'd written '12' then it'd be a Vet Sergeant. Plus this list is a text summary from Army Builder, and it'd say 'Vet Sergeant'.

Ok, overall this is actually a very good list. It doesn't really need a lot of tweaking, and, in fact, you could take it against most people without tweaking it and still do pretty well.

Command Platoon (HQ) @ 336 Pts
     3 Command Squad @ 56 Pts
          Lasguns; Iron Discipline
          1 Junior Officer
          1 Veteran w/ Lasgun; Standard Bearer


You've got 58 points to play around with, so lets spent 25 of them on an Honorifica Imperialis. Might as well get the Ld9. No reason not to. You've also got a spare Doctrine Slot, so take Close Order Drill. It's free, so you don't lose anything by taking it, and you can rank your models up the turn before you are charged/charge into combat (assuming you have to charge because you can't get away in time), so that you can benefit from the I4 without having to have your models all bunched up from the start of the game.

6 Anti Tank Squad @ 95 Pts
          Missile Launcher (x3); Lasguns

     6 Fire Support Squad @ 90 Pts
          Heavy Bolter (x3); Lasguns; SharpShooters

     6 Fire Support Squad @ 95 Pts
          Autocannon (x3); Lasguns


Mmm... Missile Launchers. Not good.

The Autocannons are better at cracking AV12 and below than ML's are, and Lascannons are better at killing AV13 and 14, and they hit just as often. You've got 33 points after buying the Honorifica, so use another 15 to make those ML's into Lascannons. 18 left!

Infantry Platoon (Troops) @ 439 Pts
     4 Command Squad @ 154 Pts
          Flamer (x4); Iron Discipline
          1 Junior Officer w/ Close combat Weapon; Laspistol
          1 Chimera @ 85 Pts
               Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Bolter

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts

Infantry Platoon (Troops) @ 399 Pts
     4 Command Squad @ 149 Pts
          Flamer (x4); Iron Discipline
          1 Junior Officer @ 40 Pts
          1 Chimera @ 80 Pts
               Multi-Laser

     9 Infantry Squad  @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant w/ lasgun @ 6 Pts


About as standard as you can get. A good amount of infantry, 60, for an 1850 list. Two extra leadership bubbles, and a couple of light tanks! Nice.

5 Hardened Veterans (Elites) @ 83 Pts
     Lasguns (x2); Plasma Guns (x3); Drop Trooper
     1 Hardened Veteran Sergeant w/ Close combat Weapon; Laspistol @ 13 Pts


No need to take 6 of them. Having even numbers doesn't matter on suicide units. Save yourself the 8 points. That brings us to 26 points left.

5 Rough Riders (Fast Attack) @ 55 Pts
     Hunting Lances


Even numbers will help this unit, not so much from a VP or scoring perspective, but because another 2 I5 S5 power weapon attacks on the charge is worth the extra 11 points. 15 left.

1 Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Support) @ 145 Pts
     Battle Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter

1 Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Support) @ 145 Pts
     Battle Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter

1 Leman Russ Demolisher (Heavy Support) @ 155 Pts
     Demolisher Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter


Fine, except you need Plasma Cannon Sponsons on that Demolisher so that it can do something interesting beyond 24". You have 15 points though. This isn't a problem. Ditch two flamers from each Platoon Command Section and you get 12 points back, giving you 27.

27 points gives you enough for the Plasma Cannons (20), Extra Armour on the Demolisher (5), and then two Searchlights on the Chimeras (2).

1850... or not... Did a quick calc, and you can have everything I just said for 1850 except the EA on the Demolisher.

Now, are there any alternatives?

Well, one thing you can do is make the third squad from each platoon into an HB/Flamer Squad. Straight away this gives you 38 points to play with. What can you do with 38 points? Easy!

  • Spend 15 on Extra Armour for the three big tanks, 20 on giving the AT squad and other FS squad 'Sharpshooters, and the remaining 3 on Searchlights for the three big tanks.
  • Ditch Sharpshooters (48 now) and take Light Infantry on all three Support Squads, giving you 18 to buy EA & Searchlights for the 3 big tanks.
  • Get a flamer back in one Platoon Command Section (32 left), and upgrade the other Platoon Command Section to 4 Meltaguns (10 left), then buy Sharpshooters for the FS squad so the Autocannons can re-roll 1's.

Up to you though. There are lots of tweaks you could make, and entire revisions that involve ditching the Demolisher, the H-Vets, the Rough Riders, or any combination thereof to get more H-Vets/RR's or even more Chimeras (or a Hellhound). In fact, by dropping the Demolisher and the Rough Riders you can afford two Hellhounds with Smoke/EA/Pintle Stubbers and still keep the H-Vets (and you'll have 9 points to spare!).

BYE


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I appreciate the help the two of you have given me so far. I made some of the changes you outlined though a few I still need some help with. Here is the revised list:.

     Doctrines:
     Allow Rough Riders 0
     Regimental Organisation: Drop Troops 0
     Skills and Drills: Iron Discipline 0
     Skills and Drills: Sharp Shooters 0
     Skills and Drills: Close Order Drill 0

  Command Platoon (HQ) @ 351 Pts
     3 Command Squad @ 56 Pts
          Lasguns (x3); Iron Discipline
          1 Junior Officer @ 40 Pts
          1 Veteran @ 11 Pts
               Lasgun; Standard Bearer

     6 Anti Tank Squad #3 @ 110 Pts
          Lascannon (x3); Lasguns

     6 Fire Support Squad #1 @ 90 Pts
          Heavy Bolter (x3); Lasguns; SharpShooters

     6 Fire Support Squad #2 @ 95 Pts
          Autocannon (x3); Lasguns

  Infantry Platoon (Troops) @ 439 Pts
     4 Command Squad @ 154 Pts
          Flamer (x4); Iron Discipline
          1 Junior Officer @ 40 Pts
               Close combat Weapon; Laspistol
          1 Chimera @ 85 Pts
               Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Bolter

     9 Infantry Squad #1 @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant @ 6 Pts
               Lasgun

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant @ 6 Pts
               Lasgun

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant @ 6 Pts
               Lasgun

  Infantry Platoon (Troops) @ 439 Pts
     4 Command Squad @ 154 Pts
          Flamer (x4); Iron Discipline
          1 Junior Officer @ 40 Pts
          1 Chimera @ 85 Pts
               Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Bolter

     9 Infantry Squad #2 @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant @ 6 Pts
               Lasgun

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant @ 6 Pts
               Lasgun

     9 Infantry Squad @ 95 Pts
          Lascannon; Lasguns; Plasma Gun
          1 Sergeant @ 6Pts
               Lasgun

4 Hardened Veterans (Elites) @ 75 Pts
     Lasguns (x1); Plasma Guns (x3); Drop Trooper
     1 Hardened Veteran Sergeant @ 13 Pts
          Lasgun

6 Rough Riders (Fast Attack) @ 66 Pts
     Hunting Lances

  Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Support) @ 145 Pts
     Battle Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter

  Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Support) @ 145 Pts
     Battle Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter

  Leman Russ Demolisher (Heavy Support) @ 180 Pts
     Demolisher Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter; Plasma Cannon Sponsons
     Extra Armour

Models in Army: 109
Total Army Cost: 1840

How crucial is the honorifica? Are the flamers in my platoon command squads an efficient use of points? I've had sucess with them in the past, but if I need to drop them to scrounge up points are they better suited off as a leadership bubble than counter charge anyway? Will the rough riders suffice as counter-charge? Again, any help is appreciated.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The Ld9 bubble with a re-roll is very important. It creates an area where your troops virtually never run away. For all the podding Librarians with Fear and Fury, this is important. It's worth dropping Sharpshooters or a couple of Flamers for.

BYE

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
 
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