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I think they'd have to be their own sprue...

Sadly that would still entail substantial extra machining costs

but I'm sure mark will do what he can

Almost halfway to the ripper!

Sadly that would still entail substantial extra machining costs

but I'm sure mark will do what he can

I'm waffling so hard...

 Vitruvian XVII wrote:
Almost halfway to the ripper!

Over halfway now

Lots of see sawing in this one. Wish people would just stay in.

I know! But the cost on shipping has thrown people around (and the lack of answers about the $100k level arms is not helping me).

I don't want 4 to 8 vulcans!!!

 Makaleth wrote:
I know! But the cost on shipping has thrown people around (and the lack of answers about the $100k level arms is not helping me).

I don't want 4 to 8 vulcans!!!

Can I have yours?

On a serious note, I'm sure Mark is working things out right now - he's been remarkably organised for a "one-man-band" to date.

Padre^.

Remember the extra arm moulds need to be paid for too,

If everybody just swaps the 'free' vulcan for an arm of thier choice without pledging more they don't get paid for

so my suspicion is Mark won't be able to aford to allow swaping. Remember the titan alone will cost 100K to pay for, all the other cool stuff he's adding he's having to borrow to pay for, the amount he has to borrow will fall as the KS goes up, but still...

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Remember the titan alone will cost 100K to pay for, all the other cool stuff he's adding he's having to borrow to pay for, the amount he has to borrow will fall as the KS goes up, but still...

QFT. This is something that people really should remember. This is not CMON or Reaper who are essentially running preorders, this is a true case of "no funding no product".

If we hit 80K by the end of today, I'll be happy as then we'll only be 10K from the Mortis and another boost. C'mon 2K on Labor Day!!

I think his sending out the survey will also give a boost.

He posted this in the comments yesterday:

Mark Mondragon wrote:Plugging away on some renders and modeling over the next week. I will be checking in, but not as often :(
One man band makes it difficult to handle everything... and adding all of those weapon arms introduced a task that was not anticipated.

So, that does explain his lack of presence... now we just need a few more backers to put this over the top!

To me, this is such a fantastic Kickstarter to support, much moreso than Relic Knights... I have a feeling that this will rock it's final week when that one is over. Help the little guys, folks!! But even if you don't feel that way, these models are SO much bigger than Relic Knights, which are tiny in-person... I feel like folks don't realize what a fantastic value this KS is due to how huge these models are.

I had to reduce my pledge slightly, but my birthday is later this week and depending on if/how much the parents send my way I may be able to put it back up, maybe even higher than before.

What I would really like is a 28mm Crusader with Nova Cannon and Mauler claw, and a 15mm Crusader...

I'm a little put off by the constant changes. I realize Mark wants this to be a success and wants everyone involved but I'm a bit confused now with all that's gone on and now having to download and fill out a shipping estimator....

I know he's a one-man operation but I just can't help the feeling that a bit more thought should have gone into the planning of this kickstarter. It could be my perception because the only other kickstarter I backed was Mantic's Kings of War and they did a really good job of exciting the backers into spending more money and drawing in more backers.

Don't get me wrong, I think Mark's got a great idea and some mad skills with the 3d modelling software but the campaign could have been better planned and much clearer. It might be something as simple as cleaning up the page to make things clearer. I'm looking forward to receiving my leviathan but won't be chipping in any more than I've already put up.

agnosto- You don't need to download the shipping calculator. It's just +$7.00 for US folks if you want your Wave 1 and Wave 2 models shipped separately.

He's definitely made a lot of changes, but personally I think it's great that he's listening to feedback and adjusting accordingly.

Looking forward to the post 100K stretch goals when we get there just have to push a bit further!

First off, good on you for supporting the project at all. You're taking a risk on someone else's dream and that's praiseworthy regardless. The following is just a presenting another viewpoint, not a belittling of your position.

 agnosto wrote:
I'm a little put off by the constant changes. I realize Mark wants this to be a success and wants everyone involved but I'm a bit confused now with all that's gone on and now having to download and fill out a shipping estimator....

As said, you're US so it's $7 if you want anything from the stretch goals past 60k. Or, you can hold it for those other goals to come in and pay nothing for shipping but have to wait until March-ish. The shipping calculator is really for those people who have to navigate the hell of international shipping, which is complicated by A) these kits being big, B) international shipping being expensive and C) Dreamforge not being a company that can just absorb those costs.

 agnosto wrote:
I know he's a one-man operation but I just can't help the feeling that a bit more thought should have gone into the planning of this kickstarter. It could be my perception because the only other kickstarter I backed was Mantic's Kings of War and they did a really good job of exciting the backers into spending more money and drawing in more backers.

Therein lies the rub. Mantic is an established company with a known customers base and a known amount of demand since the game was first launched in 2009. Their KickStarter was essentially marketing hype and so they could plan around that fact and they did it well. It'd be no different than GW launching a KickStarter for the 6th Edition of Warhammer 40k (except we know that GW would never do something so radical and untested as to let their customers know what product is coming). Most of the other big KickStarters with scads of rewards are coming from similarly established names in their industries and that's good, but remember that they already have some brand-identity to cash in on (see also outside of miniatures: DoubleFine Adventure, Wasteland, OGRE, Penny Arcade).

In contrast, this is a true "off the ground" effort. There is no data about what people want, because they've never had the opportunity to buy this product line before. That leaves Mark in the unenviable position of trying to figure out what his customers want now, and what they would prefer to see later. This adjustment to reality from what he might have wanted to do results in the changes to the line-up and shipping. However, it is important to note that save the staged shipping possibly adding $7 to your cost, every other change has been to the benefit of the customer (someone please correct that if I missed something).

As I said earlier in the thread, there's a key difference between being unorganized and having flexibility. Dealing with something that truly is brand-new calls for more flexibility than something like Mantic or Reaper or CMON. Mark had his plan laid out, but knew that he needed to adjust to what customers wanted. Hence why we have more arm options for the Crusaders (a customer request) instead of the planned entry for Assault and Heavy Troopers.

EDIT: Almost forgot...I agree whole-heartedly that the information presented on the KickStarter page could use some cleanup. Way too much to scroll through to get to some of the important information (like the calculator which is nearly at the bottom). While I'm sure some of that is KickStarter's site and format, it'd be nice if it was re-organized a bit.

@RiTides,
Thanks for pointing that out; I went back through the page and got the gist of what you stated.

@Krinsath,
Oh, I understand completely the difference here between Dream Forge and Mantic. I saw Mark doing this and have seen him around Dakka for some time now; he seems a stand up guy so I doubt there's any risk on my part other than my wife getting mad at me for dropping more money on "nerd stuff" after just dropping some serious coin on Mantic's kickstarter.

There are some small things that I could recommend to Mike as he pursues this dream (hopefully it kicks off so well that he can turn it into a full-time gig if it isn't already).

1) Don't listen to the customers too much. There's probably a fine line beyond which you've compromised yourself to the point of becoming a doorstep for the customers; I've seen first-hand how the idiom "The customer is always right." can go horribly wrong. Don't let us become petty tyrants. :-)

2) For the love of all that is holy, please run a spellchecker and proofread what you write before posting updates. Yeah, that's picky but I've been in education for too long I guess...sorry.

3) Look at the layout of your kickstarter page and compare it to the slick pages run by other organizations; you might be able to take something away, organizationally speaking, that will make it easier to navigate/read which may result in more backers.

I think Mark partnering up with Wargames Factory was brilliant as, barring any shipping/manufacturing snafus like they dealt with a year or so ago, he has instant access to industry affordable manufacturing capabilities.

I'm excited for Mark and I'll be excited to get my leviathon.

Cheers.

Yeah, Mark's spelling and grammar rankle with me too at times so I think you're right about the education business making us sensitive. Being the son of an English teacher (which sounds quite a bit like an insult) doesn't help either.

However, if we want to compare my written English to Mark's and then throw in our ability to create and design models then I'm pretty sure I get my ass kicked and quite badly. We each have our strengths and I can overlook a few typos for such quality models. Your point is a good one though; presentation counts a great deal for customers dealing with the unknown.

My current issue with the kickstarter is that I have too many expensive as hell hobbies. I'll know where exactly I can donate by the end of this week.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
My current issue with the kickstarter is that I have too many expensive as hell hobbies. I'll know where exactly I can donate by the end of this week.

Mine is too much going at the same time, as well as limited finances. Relic Knights kickstarter (wife insists, no complaints, cool minis and loading on the freebies), the Dreamforge kickstarter, which I want to support as much as possible, then the need for something that will be sent to me now, I need a fix in the short term. Im still waiting on the Blackwater Gulch kickstarter stuff to get shipped, Relic Knights wont be until at least May, and Dreamforge will be Oct/Nov if I can swing a 28mm, arch if I have to stay with the 15mm guys. So Im trying to squeeze in a Stormwall too...

He said he'll try to post command squad renders by day's end.

Pledge calculator spreadsheet turned out to be more useful then I expected. Think I finally have my pledge sorted out...till I end more..

Yeah; Mark has a nasty habit of making me want to spend more money. These rumors of a command set are disturbing...

Cue "just when I think I'm out..." impressions.

 Mad4Minis wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Remember the titan alone will cost 100K to pay for, all the other cool stuff he's adding he's having to borrow to pay for, the amount he has to borrow will fall as the KS goes up, but still...

QFT. This is something that people really should remember. This is not CMON or Reaper who are essentially running preorders, this is a true case of "no funding no product".

Sorry, but this just isn't true.
At this point ($100k) all of the arm designs are already in. They are already being paid for. This means the extra cost is not that of the extra moulds, but that of the extra arms to produce.
The question is whether he can produce different arms (which can be done as he has to produce all of them now as they would all be unlocked). He should be able to produce extra arms.

The reason that I mention this is that a free arm of any type would get more people in on this Kickstarter.
Which in the long term is better for the amortisation of the rest of the kits.

Remember, a free arm will be had regardless... different arms shouldn't increase cost at all (as there will be a survey to figure this out anyway).

 Makaleth wrote:
At this point ($100k) all of the arm designs are already in. They are already being paid for. This means the extra cost is not that of the extra moulds, but that of the extra arms to produce.
The question is whether he can produce different arms (which can be done as he has to produce all of them now as they would all be unlocked). He should be able to produce extra arms.

The reason that I mention this is that a free arm of any type would get more people in on this Kickstarter.
Which in the long term is better for the amortisation of the rest of the kits.

Remember, a free arm will be had regardless... different arms shouldn't increase cost at all (as there will be a survey to figure this out anyway).

While hopefully Mark will provide the definitive answer, it's worth mentioning that the free arm might be a deal that's already been worked out with WGF in advance. It's been heavily implied throughout that a lot of this is done via their support. If that is the case, then all costs may not be equal, and it might not be an option (similar to how you can't change the default options).

I'm hoping that we'd get a choice of arm, because while I wouldn't use that option I think you're right about it being a good enticement. However, I can also see circumstances where they just can't do it. Time will tell I suppose.

Video someone posted of metal troopers painted up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or2XiXrSKKs

Hi Guys,
The extra left Vulkan , will have to stay a left Vulkan. I went over this with WGF and Wai Kee and we cannot change this option.

The mold draft angles for the other weapons added later have not been done yet as all of these were unanticipated adds. Messing with the 100K free arm is not possible because it causes major issues with the shipping date and additional delivery fees. We had scheduled the Vulkan to go out at the same time as the Crusader, they have already preformed the pre-production steps needed for the mold cuts and we have used all the available production slots.

Well, I say sweet. Because that means that we won't have to wait for our leviathans, not titans, until the holidays.

I think agnosto said it best that it is a very fine line between the customer always being right and DFG doing business as it wants to.

I think Mark mentioned ADHD, which is a learning disability, and, from my limited experience with kids having it, does lead to some typos, grammar and syntax errors. I think we can all be understanding in this, and he focuses on bringing us models covered in awesome sauce, rather than poifect engrish.

Thanks for the confirmation Mark.
Will work out which arms I need now

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I think Mark mentioned ADHD, which is a learning disability, and, from my limited experience with kids having it, does lead to some typos, grammar and syntax errors. I think we can all be understanding in this, and he focuses on bringing us models covered in awesome sauce, rather than poifect engrish.

I agree with the sentiment completely; it's just when trying to drum up business first impressions count. Those of us who are already on the hook, as it were, are important, but if he's trying to snag those next backers then every little bit helps. Is it really important in the grand scheme? Of course not, but smaller things have turned away customers.

Thanks for the information on the arms! Even if it's what I thought, it's good to have that final confirmation and reasoning.