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So i recently found a copy of the 3rd edition space marine codex at a local gaming store and found the rules for Captain Cortez. After reading Rynn's World i decided that i wanted to make a "low" cost Cortez which would capture his personage and be as akwarly priced as the other codex marine characters.

Alessio Cortez, Captain of the Crimson Fists 4th Company
WS-6 BS-5 S-4 T-5 W-3 I-5 A-3 Ld-10 Sv- 3+
Wargear: Power armor, master crafted powerfist, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades, iron halo
Special Rules: ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, Independent Character, Immortal Warrior, Feel No Pain and Hatred of the Chapter (all units in your army gain the "Preferred Enemy: Orks" universal rule)
Pts: 175pts

yeah he may seem really under priced, but compared to other characters who have similar rules (albiet not all of them) he's similarly priced.
Cassius is 10pts more expensive than an eq chaplain with combi flamer and has 6 toughness and feel no pain. Lysander is 30pts more expensive than a eq thamer sshield terminator captain and has immortal warrior and other wound and a few other helpful powers.
My cortez is 50pts more expensive than an eq captain so i tried to follow the other characters as a guide, not just how i felt he should be priced.

Reasoning on powers and stats i'd say cortez is no better than a regular captain except for his stubborness in the face of death, rather than giving him a better invul like 3rd did i went for feel no pain to represent his ignoring wounds, immortal so he could surivive the heavys and t5 to represent just how hard it is to hurt him. the hatred thing is his hatred for orks and i gave him a MC pfist because it says somewhere in Rynn's World its a relic.

Well, thanks for your criticism ahead of time and sorry if i posted things i wasn't supposed to (i know theres rules, but i'm pretty sure your allowed to post stat lines even if they're really similar)

PS: i don't want any haters posting that Cortez is dead and thats why he wasn't in any other edition

You have him at the same points as Pedro, the Chapter Master. Comparing the 2, Pedro does not have EW or a MC powerfist (which i think is daylight robbery).

Pedro gives the army Stubborn (which for this arguement we'll say matches the preferred enemy that Cortez has).

I guess my main issue would that, with T5, FNP and EW this guy is VERY tough to kill. To make it more playable i would remove one or the other.

Example - Boltgun fired by SM....hits on a 3+, wounds on a 6+ (i think with T5). Cortez gets a normal 3+ save and if he fails that he gets an aditional 4+ save from FNP. I dont know how to do the whole mathhammer thnig but i am pretty sure that a bolter will wound him once in a blue moon.

Praxiss wrote:
You have him at the same points as Pedro, the Chapter Master. Comparing the 2, Pedro does not have EW or a MC powerfist (which i think is daylight robbery).

Pedro gives the army Stubborn (which for this arguement we'll say matches the preferred enemy that Cortez has).

I guess my main issue would that, with T5, FNP and EW this guy is VERY tough to kill. To make it more playable i would remove one or the other.

Example - Boltgun fired by SM....hits on a 3+, wounds on a 6+ (i think with T5). Cortez gets a normal 3+ save and if he fails that he gets an aditional 4+ save from FNP. I dont know how to do the whole mathhammer thnig but i am pretty sure that a bolter will wound him once in a blue moon.

A bolter has a 1/54 chance of successfully putting a wound on Cortez; that is, the same as a Plague Marine. Not too ridiculous. Just shoot him with plasma/krak/melta and he'll fold.

That said, I do think he's a bit underpriced. Try 200 points. FNP makes him basically invulnerable to small arms, Eternal Warrior makes him 3x as resilient against high-strength weaponry plus immune to Force Weapons, T5 makes him a great deal better than a standard Captain. Try 200 points.

Except that Cassuis is massivly undercostsed, and only reasonable because a normal Chappy is overcosted.

Its far better to compair to chars at the same points cost.

Lets compair to a normal Captain:
The number of shots @ BS4 needed to kill

vs Boltgun
Captain = 27
Cortez = 81
(Cortez is 3x better)

vs Multi Laser (BS3)
Captain = 22
Cortez = 54
(Cortez is 2.5x better)

vs Plasma
Captain = 11
Cortez = 11
(Same)

vs Melta/Lascannon
Captain = 3.5
Cortez = 11
(again, 3x better)


So, with the exception of weapons that are Str7 (enoygh for T5 not to matterm, but too low to ID the captain) AP2/1 (to negate FNP), Cortez is better by a long way than a normal captain, up to a maximum of 3x better.

So:

Captain - 100
Power Fist - 25
MC PF - +15
PF: Orks - Now, if this replaced Combat Tactics, it would be free. However, as it does not, its at least 30p.

BTW, its not 50 points more than the equivlent Captain, because that does not factor in MC and PE:Orks


SO:
Thats gives us 170p BEFORE T5, EW, FNP.
IMO that puts you well above 240.



So, changes:
Remove FNP and make Hatred of the Chapter remplace Combat Tactics. Then he's worth about 180 (140 for weapons, + 40p for +1T and EW)

 Joetaco wrote:
So i recently found a copy of the 3rd edition space marine codex at a local gaming store and found the rules for Captain Cortez. After reading Rynn's World i decided that i wanted to make a "low" cost Cortez which would capture his personage and be as akwarly priced as the other codex marine characters.

Alessio Cortez, Captain of the Crimson Fists 4th Company
WS-6 BS-5 S-4 T-5 W-3 I-5 A-3 Ld-10 Sv- 3+
Wargear: Power armor, master crafted powerfist, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades, iron halo
Special Rules: ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, Independent Character, Immortal Warrior, Feel No Pain and Hatred of the Chapter (all units in your army gain the "Preferred Enemy: Orks" universal rule)
Pts: 175pts

yeah he may seem really under priced, but compared to other characters who have similar rules (albiet not all of them) he's similarly priced.
Cassius is 10pts more expensive than an eq chaplain with combi flamer and has 6 toughness and feel no pain. Lysander is 30pts more expensive than a eq thamer sshield terminator captain and has immortal warrior and other wound and a few other helpful powers.
My cortez is 50pts more expensive than an eq captain so i tried to follow the other characters as a guide, not just how i felt he should be priced.

Reasoning on powers and stats i'd say cortez is no better than a regular captain except for his stubborness in the face of death, rather than giving him a better invul like 3rd did i went for feel no pain to represent his ignoring wounds, immortal so he could surivive the heavys and t5 to represent just how hard it is to hurt him. the hatred thing is his hatred for orks and i gave him a MC pfist because it says somewhere in Rynn's World its a relic.

Well, thanks for your criticism ahead of time and sorry if i posted things i wasn't supposed to (i know theres rules, but i'm pretty sure your allowed to post stat lines even if they're really similar)

PS: i don't want any haters posting that Cortez is dead and thats why he wasn't in any other edition

missing in the warp does not mean dead else you could say the legion of the damned and lemun russ are dead so Cortez is very much alive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Black Antelope wrote:
Except that Cassuis is massivly undercostsed, and only reasonable because a normal Chappy is overcosted.

Its far better to compair to chars at the same points cost.

Lets compair to a normal Captain:
The number of shots @ BS4 needed to kill

vs Boltgun
Captain = 27
Cortez = 81
(Cortez is 3x better)

vs Multi Laser (BS3)
Captain = 22
Cortez = 54
(Cortez is 2.5x better)

vs Plasma
Captain = 11
Cortez = 11
(Same)

vs Melta/Lascannon
Captain = 3.5
Cortez = 11
(again, 3x better)


So, with the exception of weapons that are Str7 (enoygh for T5 not to matterm, but too low to ID the captain) AP2/1 (to negate FNP), Cortez is better by a long way than a normal captain, up to a maximum of 3x better.

So:

Captain - 100
Power Fist - 25
MC PF - +15
PF: Orks - Now, if this replaced Combat Tactics, it would be free. However, as it does not, its at least 30p.

BTW, its not 50 points more than the equivlent Captain, because that does not factor in MC and PE:Orks


SO:
Thats gives us 170p BEFORE T5, EW, FNP.
IMO that puts you well above 240.



So, changes:
Remove FNP and make Hatred of the Chapter remplace Combat Tactics. Then he's worth about 180 (140 for weapons, + 40p for +1T and EW)

Id say remove FNP but not replace Combat tactics because that removes any hope of synergy with Kantor and in the lore they fought together often during the Rynn's World Conflict just make him 30 points more expencive (id say 230 would be looking good)

He should be cheaper than Pedro Kantor. Kantor is the Chapter Master, Cortez is a Captain. The Captain should not be more badass than the Chapter Master. I don't like Eternal Warrior on him, or T5, and his fist should not be master crafted if Kantor's isn't. I'd also agree that Hatred of the Chapter should not replace Chapter Tactics to allow him to Synergyize with Kantor. At T4 without EW or a MC Fist I see him as being about 160 - 165 points, or at a good spot when compared to Kantor.

Yay for pointless threadomancy...seriously, can ye not read the thread title?