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are the alpha legion still loyal to the imperium in some sense?

Erm... no. What's your thinking here?

Scorpionov wrote:are the alpha legion still loyal to the imperium in some sense?

IIRC, they aren't loyal to the Imperium but are to the Emperor.

Ah, I'm missing out on some fluff here. Someone care to elaborate?

Scorpionov wrote:are the alpha legion still loyal to the imperium in some sense?

Are they loyal to the Imperium? No. They left long before the Imperium became what it is, and like any of the original Legions, would abhor seeing what they strove for becoming what it is. They also probably have a bone to pick with the Ultramarines personally, if he did actually manage to kill one of the twin primarchs.

Are they loyal to humanity and the Emperor? It's debateable. They may or may not have gone to Chaos to destroy it from within, but after ten thousand years of it's influence and corruption, whether they remain loyal (If they were in the first place) is certainly questionable.

Think, much like alot of fluff in 40k, it's left deliberately open for people to think what they will, and GW to take it in whatever direction they choose. This way, if they want to run the redeemed traitor at any point (Why is beyond me, but they could) they have a legion already available in the lore to do so without it seeming more odd than it already will. The only people that know the Alpha Legions true loyalties...are the Alpha Legion.

I think they are independent, they only sided with horus because the other out come would be a slow decay and eventual destruction of the galaxy if horus failed, which he did. Now I think they are more interested in preservation, and doing what is going to benefit them the most in the long run, which could mean helping the imperium, or hindering it.

Flashman wrote:Ah, I'm missing out on some fluff here. Someone care to elaborate?

There's fluff to suggest that the Alpha Legion may have turned to benefit the galaxy, not for the dreams of power, rebellion, recognition etc. that other Legions did.

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:

Scorpionov wrote:are the alpha legion still loyal to the imperium in some sense?

Are they loyal to the Imperium? No. They left long before the Imperium became what it is, and like any of the original Legions, would abhor seeing what they strove for becoming what it is. They also probably have a bone to pick with the Ultramarines personally, if he did actually manage to kill one of the twin primarchs.

Are they loyal to humanity and the Emperor? It's debateable. They may or may not have gone to Chaos to destroy it from within, but after ten thousand years of it's influence and corruption, whether they remain loyal (If they were in the first place) is certainly questionable.

Think, much like alot of fluff in 40k, it's left deliberately open for people to think what they will, and GW to take it in whatever direction they choose. This way, if they want to run the redeemed traitor at any point (Why is beyond me, but they could) they have a legion already available in the lore to do so without it seeming more odd than it already will. The only people that know the Alpha Legions true loyalties...are the Alpha Legion.

"It's a conspiracy!"

"That's what they want you to think."

This pretty much sums it up here.

I am certain that easing the way for the 13. Black Crusade ( Vraks ) and seeding Chaos cults shows their great loyalty to humanity...*coughs*...
Or perhaps not, face it people, no matter what their original intentions were, the Alpha Legion is now just as corrupt as the Word Bearers, the Iron Warriors and all the others.

Remember this quote from the end of Legion though:




There may be some twisted logic going on.

Intriguing, is 'Legion' the Alpha Legion Horus Heresy book?

liam0404 wrote:Remember this quote from the end of Legion though:

Spoiler:

Lucius Black Soldier: "Why are you doing this?" Alpharius: "For the Emperor..."

There may be some twisted logic going on.

And Lorgar rebelled for the continued existance of Mankind, just like Horus did and nobody would claim that these two are still "loyal".

Flashman wrote:Intriguing, is 'Legion' the Alpha Legion Horus Heresy book?

Yeah it is. I enjoyed it, though found it a little nedlessly complex in places. Suits the Alpha Legion then I guess!

Cool, I've just started the series. Half way through Horus Rising.

Legion is worth a read for Alpha Legion fluff and yes the lore would suggest that they sided with Horus for the good of the glaaxy rather than the good if the Imperium.

Have to say it's one of my least fav HH books so far though!

liam0404 wrote:Remember this quote from the end of Legion though:

Spoiler:

Lucius Black Soldier: "Why are you doing this?" Alpharius: "For the Emperor..."

There may be some twisted logic going on.

Make of that what you will

Quite honestly we don't know if they are still loyal or not. The majority of the Alpha Legion seem to be traitors now, but who knows, maybe they are trying to bring the Imperium back to its greatest days. Personally, I don't think there is any chance that they are loyal any more. After 10,000 years what you stand for gets twisted to your own ends and the lines between right and wrong blur and fade.

I think by this point their plan failed and now they're stuck on the side of chaos. All plans for the betterment of the galaxy have been lost to history.

While alongside several other Primarchs and their legions they sided with Horus out of noble intentions they will undoubtedly have been corrupted by millenia surrounded by the warp and its influence, they are probably even more resentful for the fact that despite their best efforts they still failed to sway the heresy, who knows if the alpha legion had stayed loyal events may have taken a very different course.

You probably have a whole range of motivations within the Legion, as it's broken into smaller warbands each according to their leader's preferences. Some may think of themselves as loyalists while others are purely out for themselves now.
My Alpha Legion band are very bad for example, due to that damned Tzeentch sorcerer guiding them all the time

I believe half the alpha legion have fallen while the other half is still loyal to the emperor.

Asherian Command wrote:I believe half the alpha legion have fallen while the other half is still loyal to the emperor.

No, that was the Dark Angels, :p

As others have said, there is no way to answer for sure. Legion makes it pretty clear they sided with Horus to obtain the result of the complete obliteration of mankind (for the good of the galaxy). As they don't seem like the type to flip flop on their goals, we could guess that is what they are still doing to this day. First by destroying the Imperium of Man, then if need be destroying the entirety of Mankind.

As the pragmatic sort they are, furthering chaos cults across the galaxy would be done in spite of their goal of Chaos's destruction. The faster the Imperium falls the better, and chaos worshipers can be a great tool for that. While you can argue that such proximity to chaos may have corrupted them in the past 10,000 years, I don't believe that to be the case.

Final note: If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, tastes like a duck, sounds like a duck, and feels like a duck, its an Alpha Legionnaire. (shamelessly taken from someone else on this forum whose name I can't remember.)

Viper217 wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:I believe half the alpha legion have fallen while the other half is still loyal to the emperor.

No, that was the Dark Angels, :p

Do not believe these heretical words..

I think the Alpha Legion were played by a bunch of Xeno scum who may or may not have been pawns of Tzeentch. However, the outcome of the Horus Heresy frelled EVERYONE's plans. Except maybe Tzeentch's.

These days the Alpha Legion are pretty much working in independent cells, in accordance with the basic doctrine set out by Alpharious/Omegon. They could still be trying to overthrow the Imperium, which institution is by and large is the total opposite of what the Emperor wanted for humanity. They might be empowering Chaos cults so they become overly bold and expose themselves. They might be chasing other ends entirely, fresh glory or old grudges. Some might even be total tools of Chaos [SSSINDRI].

The whole point of the Alpha Legion is, no-one on the outside knows what they're really up to.

I like to think they were trying to return to the imperium (after their original plans went to hell during the HH) when the ultramarines messed things up and opened fire on sight

Exopheric wrote:I think the Alpha Legion were played by a bunch of Xeno scum who may or may not have been pawns of Tzeentch. However, the outcome of the Horus Heresy frelled EVERYONE's plans. Except maybe Tzeentch's.

Yup, I agree. I think it's Chaos playing with everyone again. The Xenos races of the Cabal use the Aquity to divinate the future and whats to come. Where does the Aquity look into, only the place where the Chaos Gods have supreme power. They showed the Cabal what they needed to see to bring another player in to the fold and conned everyone.

There is probaly multiple Splinter groups. Some dedicated to Chaos , the Emperor and maybay some who dont give a damm about any one else but them selfs. I must admit they are preety awsome exept for the Dawn of War Alpha Legion exept for Sindri Myr

So would the alpha legion be in a constant state of civil war?

As much as I would LOVE to know exactly what the Legion is up to, the simple fact of the matter is that we DO NOT KNOW!

My theory?

The are truly "For The Emperor" and are playing a double agent game with the Cabal.

They're no fans of Xenos, so, they will attempt to thwart Horus AND save the Emperor AND save Humanity.

AND they are, perhaps, a bit too clever for their own good, and clearly... things 'got out of hand' and now we've got what we've got in the 41st millennium - most likely some AL are 'loyal' and some are not.

Or, something...

But again, we actually don't really know exactly what the Legion was planning or what they stand for at all 'today'.

well alpha legion is loyal to imperium and emperor,, in their own interpeted ways.

they believed to the cabal, and little manipulated, that if empreror wins, the imperiuym will die sooner or later, but if horus wins, for the sacrifice of the human race, all space and universe will be saved from the primordial annihilator.

as we all know that the first one is happened, and according to prophecy, the imperum should be faltered and die after 1000 years, but 10.000 years passed since the heresy but the Imperium endures. so it was a misgiving assumption, that it seems Cabal manipulated the Alpharious, and omegon, because it seems possible that they could have a big role in heresy, so maybe cabal should be wanted to alter them.

but one way or another they are still loyal to imperium. and empreror, in a different way

Guys, look, this is easy. Occam's Razor: They took up arms against their brothers and their Emperor. Simplest explanation: they are traitors.

Moving on...