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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/317396.page

I hope no one in here breaks an arm patting themselves on the back!

Alpharius wrote:I hope no one in here breaks an arm patting themselves on the back!

You're just bitter for obvious reasons: You wish you'd originally named yourself Omegon.

You know, while I quite like the whole shocking revelation of

I never condidered to alpha legion to be anything other than traiters, the only legions that i though might turn back to the emporer would be the Night Lords (Becuse their primarch regretted everything in the end) and the Emporer's Children, as Fulgrim may overcome his posseson one day and turn them back to the emporers light (vain hope though)

Daykinator wrote:I never condidered to alpha legion to be anything other than traiters, the only legions that i though might turn back to the emporer would be the Night Lords (Becuse their primarch regretted everything in the end) and the Emporer's Children, as Fulgrim may overcome his posseson one day and turn them back to the emporers light (vain hope though)

The emperors children? really? You'd have better luck convincing the Word Bearers to join the imperial cult than getting those psychos back in line.

Daykinator wrote:I never condidered to alpha legion to be anything other than traiters, the only legions that i though might turn back to the emporer would be the Night Lords (Becuse their primarch regretted everything in the end) and the Emporer's Children, as Fulgrim may overcome his posseson one day and turn them back to the emporers light (vain hope though)

Um, Dan Abnett has somewhat recently made the cry of "For the Emperor!" a little more.. cloudy... than it was before.

Daykinator wrote:I never considered the alpha legion to be anything other than traitors, the only legions that i thought might turn back to the emperor would be the Night Lords (Because their primarch regretted everything in the end) and the Emperor's Children, as Fulgrim may overcome his possession one day and turn them back to the emperors light (vain hope though)

The Emperor Children and Night Lords have fully embraced their new beliefs, there's no way they would go back. The Nighthaunter never regretted his actions, it was the only way he knew how to do things. If he regretted his actions he would've stopped doing it on maybe his third or fourth warning and would've helped the loyalists on Istvaan That was the one chance they had to redeem themselves.

And the Emperors Children, even if Fulgrim had a change of heart after shifting the Daemon out, the line Astartes themselves are to far gone. Personally, the whole Daemon thing is a big lie, it's been Fulgrim all along

I would argue they could be.

I've always thought it was interesting the Alpha Legion shows up right before a cultist uprising goes off half-cocked and gets its butt handed to it by the Imperium (sure, the costs are staggering each time, but how much worse could they have been with more planning, better resources, etc?). The leading theory amongst my group is that the Legion shows up to provoke an uprising so that the Imperium becomes aware of the problem and can stop it before another Heresy breaks out.

There's also the "humanity or at least the Imperium needs to be destroyed or the universe is doomed" theory that is supported in Legion.

Personally, I've always liked the idea that there was a legion in the Imperium who were actually traitors once (the Dark Angels, if you believe the old hints that the Lion was the traitor instead of Luther) and a legion amongst the Chaos Marines who were actually still loyal (the Alpha Legion). But that's just me.

The important thing is to believe what you want- it's your game! =)

Anybody who tries to tell you how to play it or that their version of an imagined fantasy world is better than yours needs to find something else to do with their time. The great thing about fiction, especially open-ended fiction, is that we can all have it our own way.

It says in the new codex that their ultimate purpose has been corrupted beyond all recovery, so if they were loyal before, they are not anymore.

Topic has done loads of times before, but mainly I think the Eisenhorn trilogy shows what happened to Alpha Legion. Chaos can corrupt very gradually and subtlety, without the victims realizing it until it's too late to turn back.

OP - reguardless, their heritics now plain and simple, there is no coming back from what they did. Only the Emperor can absolve them of their sins.

I know this might be a little off topic here, but how have the Night Lords fully embraced Chaos?

Most of them hate the Ruinous Powers and all of them hate the Imperium.

Most of them hate mutation and Chaos Worship (nay, worship of all kinds) and most of all they hate each other unless they are trying to find the master recording of Curze's death.

If anything, Night Lords are an enigma. They follow their own path and they don't bow to anyone. If I'm right, there has only been 2 or 3 recorded instances where the Night Lords have stood unified since the Siege of Terra.

Back on topic. From what I've read, The Alpha Legion sided with Chaos to... well... defeat Chaos. While they follow no God and offer no direct affinity to Chaos, they want nothing more than to destroy Chaos to save the Galaxy.

Now, they may have been misled by the Cabal. Like many of the other Legions who were tricked into Chaos worship, The Alpha Legion may have gone the same way, but have not fallen fully. I see them with similarities to the Night Lords, except that they are relatively good by comparison.

While the Night Lords Legion is full of Anti Heroes and general ass-holes that are out for themselves, the Alpha Legion is trying to do the right thing for the good of the Galaxy. It's a shame they are wrong, but hey ho, no one is perfect in the grim dark.

They are traitors to the Emperor and the Imperium and want to see it burn.



At ONE TIME, SOME of them were loyal to the Emperor's vision (not the Emperor himself but his vision. A fine difference) However not everyone is on the same page. This is because the Primarchs of the legion kept to themselves. What ends up happening is a fraction in the legion of why they are doing it.

Alpharius and Omegon dont even agree with each other and are taking different (and contradictory means) to accomplish their goals.

Now, after 10k years from the Cabal incident, the anti-Emperor side has pretty much taken power and now they are full on Anti-Imperium. They may not be pro-Chaos but they will use Chaos now to accomplish their goal of destroying the Imperium.




My Personal belief is that Guiliman killed the Primarch (Alpharius) brother who was fighting in the Emperor's vision. The other one comes up and claims to be Alpharius (which is why there is confusion if Alpharius actually died, because he has someone claiming to be him) and he wanted to see the Imperium burn for his own reasons (not for Chaos, or Horus, or anyone, just himself) and this mindset is what exist now in the legion. Everyone for themselves

No, they're not loyal to the Imperium at all and I don't think they're loyal to the Emperor (though that one is debatable). I believe they're loyal to the preservation of the human race. They want humanity to live on and will do whatever it takes to make sure that happens. Even if that means betraying their father, joining Chaos, and killing thousands of their Battle Brothers.

I kind of think of them as Ozymandias from Watchmen for his whole "I must kill millions in order to save billions" ideals.

Traitors, through and through. Attempts to paint them as anything else are misguided and silly, especially when all it comes down to is "Well, they could be loyalists even when they don't act like loyalists." Yes, the Alpha Legion totally know the Emperor's super secret plan to save the Imperium by having another legion betray them.

1068SCP wrote:
Traitors, through and through. Attempts to paint them as anything else are misguided and silly, especially when all it comes down to is "Well, they could be loyalists even when they don't act like loyalists." Yes, the Alpha Legion totally know the Emperor's super secret plan to save the Imperium by having another legion betray them.

The Alpha Legion have never shown any inclination of wanting to save or preserve the Imperium. The way I see it, there's three scenarios:

1) Their goal is to destroy Chaos by destroying humanity. This implies them following the prophecy given to them by the Cabal.
2) Their goal is to to save humanity by destroying the Imperium and its ideals. This would perhaps create a more solid foundation to combat the forces of Chaos.
3) Their goal is to destroy the Golden Throne so the Emperor can be reborn and destroy Chaos. This would theoretically cause a reformation in the Imperial governing system and hopefully lead to the downfall of the religious, tyrannical oppression that the Imperium is suffering from. This would save humanity from Chaos and Imperial oppression in one, fell swoop.


I'm on the side of #3, personally. People who say the Alpha Legion are loyalists are just wrong. They're not loyalists; but they're not conventional traitor Marines, either. They are traitors; but their goals are completely different than any of the other Legions.




I Am Alpharius

i say that while they aren't loyalists, they are still striving for alpharius's goal with the Cabal.

See Dawn of War. Most people dislike the usage of the Alpha Legion in these games, due to idiots like Bale and Carron. However, I like to think of it like this.

The entire events of DOW1 and 2 were set in motion by Gabriel unleashing the Daemon Maledictus. I believe this was part of the Alpha Legion's plan to replace Abaddon with their own leader of the chaos forces who would stand a better chance at overthrowing the Imperium.

Siege of Vraks. Instigated by the Alpha Legion to make way for the 13th Black Crusade. Black Crusade stalls at Cadia, conveniently drawing most of the Imperial and Black Legion forces to the conflict. Leaves the eastern Fringe comparatively uncontrolled. Enter Blood Ravens. Chapter Master has already been corrupted by Chaos, and Maledictus is hanging around waiting to screw over the loyalist Blood Ravens. Alpha Legion fosters this growing heresy and introduces Kyras to Maledictus, hoping to create the Ascendant.

A Daemon Prince merged with the powers of a Spess Mahreen Librarian Chapter Master. Unbelievably powerful if it was unleashed. With the Alpha Legion carefully overseeing their pet project, they could potentially gain a new Champion for Chaos, someone to oust Abaddon and replace him with Kyras. The Black Legion has had 13 chances to overthrow the Imperium, only to be stopped and having the loyalists regain their strength. The Alphas have had enough, so they use the Ascendant to take over the black crusades and actually defeat the Imperium, bringing about the collapse of humanity and the destruction of chaos as the Cabal had predicted.

As for people like Carron and Bale? Merely distractions to keep the Blood Ravens occupied while the true Alpha Legion operatives work behind the scenes. Kaurava was a chance to cause massive damage to the Chapter, leaving the replacement recruits susceptible to corruption by their already tainted leaders, conveniently away from Boreale's massacre.

The Alpha Legion is not loyal to the Imperium, nor loyal to Chaos. theyvfollow themselves and thecvision of the Cabal.
Man, those guys are awsome!

I don't think the Alpha Legion even know anymore, with so many plots and counter plots it must get confusing to where your loyalty lies. I just think they like beating up on the Ultramarines and their offspring to show how superior they are to them.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Personally, the whole Daemon thing is a big lie, it's been Fulgrim all along

Oh hai, I was right as well ... kinda

I think the core of the Legion is still on track, while splinter cells have no clue and have fully gone to Chaos; daemons, mutations, the whole lot. I believe the twins and the closest to them are still straight up double agent Astartes.

Edit: Bah, never noticed that this was a necrothread. Moving on.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I don't think the Alpha Legion even know anymore, with so many plots and counter plots it must get confusing to where your loyalty lies. I just think they like beating up on the Ultramarines and their offspring to show how superior they are to them.

Spoiler:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Personally, the whole Daemon thing is a big lie, it's been Fulgrim all along [/quote

]

Oh hai, I was right as well ... kinda

You should probably spolier that. It hasnt been that long sense the book game out (I forgot when it came out, maybe im wrong and its past acceptable no spolier needed time)

Absolutely not. There's no evidence that in the 41st millennium they are anything other than daemon-worshipping terrorists.

You can make a mystery out of their rebellion if you take stock in the Abnett-verse ten thousand years ago, but their current state is unquestionable.

 Darth Bob wrote:

1068SCP wrote:
Traitors, through and through. Attempts to paint them as anything else are misguided and silly, especially when all it comes down to is "Well, they could be loyalists even when they don't act like loyalists." Yes, the Alpha Legion totally know the Emperor's super secret plan to save the Imperium by having another legion betray them.

The Alpha Legion have never shown any inclination of wanting to save or preserve the Imperium.

I'm sorry, I was being sarcastic. Sarcasm is hard to convey on the internet.

 Darth Bob wrote:
The way I see it, there's three scenarios:

1) Their goal is to destroy Chaos by destroying humanity. This implies them following the prophecy given to them by the Cabal.
2) Their goal is to to save humanity by destroying the Imperium and its ideals. This would perhaps create a more solid foundation to combat the forces of Chaos.
3) Their goal is to destroy the Golden Throne so the Emperor can be reborn and destroy Chaos. This would theoretically cause a reformation in the Imperial governing system and hopefully lead to the downfall of the religious, tyrannical oppression that the Imperium is suffering from. This would save humanity from Chaos and Imperial oppression in one, fell swoop.

I'm on the side of #3, personally. People who say the Alpha Legion are loyalists are just wrong. They're not loyalists; but they're not conventional traitor Marines, either. They are traitors; but their goals are completely different than any of the other Legions.

I Am Alpharius

Where is the evidence for #2 and #3? How do you think betraying the Imperium and bringing on the imprisonment of the Emperor on the golden throne was a good solution to the religious tyranny that only followed after the Emperor got stuck on his chair? How are they trying to strengthen humanity's foundation when the Horus Heresy crippled humanity's conquest of the stars?

The way I see it, the only "saving the universe" idea the Alpha Legion could have had was #1, and that would be just as much of a betrayal of the Imperium as siding with the Chaos Gods.

 Galdos wrote:

You should probably spolier that. It hasnt been that long sense the book game out (I forgot when it came out, maybe im wrong and its past acceptable no spolier needed time)

Spoiler:

I disagree. It doesnt make any sense with any of the past work. I fully believe its the Daemon pretending to be Fulgrim still. Lucius either saw decided that there was no way to get Fulgrim back and accepted it (Lucius lied) or (what I believe) The Daemon simply realized he made a mistake and was simply more careful about how he portrayed himself. ie. he simply fooled them a second time.

.The alternative simply doesnt make any sense to me. Remember though that the seen is made to be confusing and let a person make up their own interpretation of the scene

I don't think anyone cares or those that are interested in will already know about what is being referred to. It's not 100% clear as to what I mean either

I've made the same comment as you Galdos, saying that it was a possibility, but was told don't be daft. Glad someone else isn't so easily convinced by Daemons

1068SCP wrote:

 Darth Bob wrote:
The Alpha Legion have never shown any inclination of wanting to save or preserve the Imperium.

I'm sorry, I was being sarcastic. Sarcasm is hard to convey on the internet.

Isn't saving saving humanity saving the Imperium

Not all of humanity is in the Imperium, though. Even if the core of the Imperium was torn apart, many of the outer planets would have no change in lifestyle other than not having taxes to pay any more.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Absolutely not. There's no evidence that in the 41st millennium they are anything other than daemon-worshipping terrorists.

Technically, they get other people to worship the daemons. And, since there's so little evidence regarding them available, their state is anything but unquestionable.

 Durza wrote:
Not all of humanity is in the Imperium, though. Even if the core of the Imperium was torn apart, many of the outer planets would have no change in lifestyle other than not having taxes to pay any more.

Yeah but who cares about those non Emperor worshiping heathen scum

So the Imperium doesn't encompass the whole of humanity, but the whole of humanity would include the whole of the Imperium would it not?

 Durza wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Absolutely not. There's no evidence that in the 41st millennium they are anything other than daemon-worshipping terrorists.

Technically, they get other people to worship the daemons. And, since there's so little evidence regarding them available, their state is anything but unquestionable.

Wrong on both points. Voldorious, Dawn of War, Siege of Vraks, etc. All evidence of direct daemon worship and anti-Imperium.

Alpha Legion is not one of the Legions we know little about.