Chapterhouse Lawsuit - Settlement reached, Appeals withdrawn - Pg 234! Chapterhouse to re-open store

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**BaronIveagh**

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Cover art made for an Atari game called Brataccas.

Was also the cover of the two CD set of Uriah Heep - Remasters

Image is a bit dark.

Edit: crap, ninja'd

**Grugknuckle**

Can one of the Lawyer's on this thread explain to me why the quote below is NOT the end of the case?

IT IS HEREBY FOUND, ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED THAT:
A. Judgment is entered for Chapterhouse and against Games Workshop on Games
Workshop’s claims of copyright infringement by the works set forth in paragraph 10, excluding
product 110 – Hell Hound. Games Workshop withdraws without prejudice its claims for
copyright infringement, trademark infringement and related claims under state law regarding
product 110, with leave to renew such claims should Chapterhouse commence marketing or sales
of such a product. Judgment is entered for Chapterhouse and against Games Workshop as to all
claims of infringement of the alleged trademarks set forth in paragraphs 12 and 13, and such
claims against Chapterhouse are dismissed with prejudice.
B. No appeal shall be taken by any party from this Partial Consent Judgment, the
right to appeal being expressly waived by all Parties.
C. Each party shall bear its own costs and attorney’s fees.
D. This final Partial Consent Judgment shall be entered hereto, forthwith, without
further notice.
Case: 1:10-cv-08103 Document #: 377 Filed: 06/04/13 Page 4 of 6 PageID #:21761
The Clerk is directed to enter this final Partial Consent Judgment forthwith.
IT IS SO ORDERED.
Dated: June 4, 2013 __________________________________
The Honorable Matthew Kennelly
United States District Judge

This is from item #377 on the case docket site.
http://ia700405.us.archive.org/18/items/gov.uscourts.ilnd.250791/gov.uscourts.ilnd.250791.docket.html

This sounds pretty final to me, but I'm not a lawyer.

**Azreal13**

darkreever wrote:

Seriously, your insinuating I am trolling; how am I supposed to take that? Honestly, take a step back and look at it: older members being dickish to a newer one because they have differing opinions on the outcome of Chapterhouse vs GamesWorkshop?

You're supposed to take notice of the laughing emoticon and realise I was teasing.

Take your chop busting like a man noob.

Besides, you've stated your opinion in a thread about a matter of law

There are bona fide legal types in this thread suggesting that you're well off base in that opinion.

**Acardia**

Grugknuckle wrote:
Can one of the Lawyer's on this thread explain to me why the quote below is NOT the end of the case?

IT IS HEREBY FOUND, ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED THAT:
A. Judgment is entered for Chapterhouse and against Games Workshop on Games
Workshop’s claims of copyright infringement by the works set forth in paragraph 10, excluding
product 110 – Hell Hound. Games Workshop withdraws without prejudice its claims for
copyright infringement, trademark infringement and related claims under state law regarding
product 110, with leave to renew such claims should Chapterhouse commence marketing or sales
of such a product. Judgment is entered for Chapterhouse and against Games Workshop as to all
claims of infringement of the alleged trademarks set forth in paragraphs 12 and 13, and such
claims against Chapterhouse are dismissed with prejudice.
B. No appeal shall be taken by any party from this Partial Consent Judgment, the
right to appeal being expressly waived by all Parties.
C. Each party shall bear its own costs and attorney’s fees.
D. This final Partial Consent Judgment shall be entered hereto, forthwith, without
further notice.
Case: 1:10-cv-08103 Document #: 377 Filed: 06/04/13 Page 4 of 6 PageID #:21761
The Clerk is directed to enter this final Partial Consent Judgment forthwith.
IT IS SO ORDERED.
Dated: June 4, 2013 __________________________________
The Honorable Matthew Kennelly
United States District Judge

This sounds pretty final to me, but I'm not a lawyer.

That was in regards to stuff agreed before hand. They are listed a few pages back.

**Alfndrate**

darkreever wrote:
Actually its three, my intro thread, an army list I put up where other members of Dakka have been of some great help, and this one here where some of the semi older members have jumped down my throat for not supporting Chapterhouse. Now I know I'm new, but having to support them, or at least be anti GamesWorkshop, isn't part of the rules is it?

It's not that you're not supporting Chapterhouse, and while this is a long thread, you're ignoring massive amounts of prior discussion that shows that CHS has just as much right to sell their product as a company that sells aftermarket products for cars, bikes, skateboards, computers, etc... Without the primary product (the space marine), Chapterhouse has no business.

**weeble1000**

Grugknuckle wrote:
Can one of the Lawyer's on this thread explain to me why the quote below is NOT the end of the case?

IT IS HEREBY FOUND, ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED THAT:
A. Judgment is entered for Chapterhouse and against Games Workshop on Games
Workshop’s claims of copyright infringement by the works set forth in paragraph 10, excluding
product 110 – Hell Hound. Games Workshop withdraws without prejudice its claims for
copyright infringement, trademark infringement and related claims under state law regarding
product 110, with leave to renew such claims should Chapterhouse commence marketing or sales
of such a product. Judgment is entered for Chapterhouse and against Games Workshop as to all
claims of infringement of the alleged trademarks set forth in paragraphs 12 and 13, and such
claims against Chapterhouse are dismissed with prejudice.
B. No appeal shall be taken by any party from this Partial Consent Judgment, the
right to appeal being expressly waived by all Parties.
C. Each party shall bear its own costs and attorney’s fees.
D. This final Partial Consent Judgment shall be entered hereto, forthwith, without
further notice.
Case: 1:10-cv-08103 Document #: 377 Filed: 06/04/13 Page 4 of 6 PageID #:21761
The Clerk is directed to enter this final Partial Consent Judgment forthwith.
IT IS SO ORDERED.
Dated: June 4, 2013 __________________________________
The Honorable Matthew Kennelly
United States District Judge

This is from item #377 on the case docket site.
http://ia700405.us.archive.org/18/items/gov.uscourts.ilnd.250791/gov.uscourts.ilnd.250791.docket.html

This sounds pretty final to me, but I'm not a lawyer.

It is a partial consent judgement, and I only italicize that word for emphasis, not any reflection on you personally. Only some of the claims were dealt with. Many, many more went to the jury and are being considered even now.

**Grugknuckle**

Thanks guys.

So let me try to summarize my noobly understanding...GW listed a whole bunch of CHS stuff that GW claims has infringed upon their IP. Later, both parties agreed that some of things did not infringe the GW IP and one thing (the Hellhound) DID infringe. So CHS agreed to stop selling the Hellhound and GW agreed to drop the non-infringing things from the complaint.

Since there are still items that GW is complaining infringes their IP, the matter went before a jury and now we're waiting for a verdict?

**Aerethan**

CHS never made a Hellhound product, thus it was removed iirc.

GW pulled a lot of their claims over the last 2 years, but a ton still exist.

**morkian**

Almost Grug, the hellhound was dropped because CHS do not currently sell anything that does infringe hence dropped without prejudice so GW could reflile if CHS do start selling something. The other items were dropped with prejudice so GW cannot refile and basically is admitting that CHS are free to use them.

**Grugknuckle**

Aerethan wrote:
CHS never made a Hellhound product, thus it was removed iirc.

GW pulled a lot of their claims over the last 2 years, but a ton still exist.

Ok...Thanks for the clarification. It kind of feels like (surprise!) GW is acting like a big friggin' bully.

**czakk**

darkreever wrote:

See this is what I was wondering, if Chapterhouse had a hand in getting this information made public then there is a bias to make GamesWokshop appear to be or be doing worst than they may very well be. I'd be asking the exact same thing if it appeared to be skewed in favor of GamesWorkshop.

Neither side is leaking or making stuff public.

The US federal court system uses an electronic filing system. Anything that is filed in the GW v CHS case (other than things sealed by the court) is available to the public. You can access the court files through the PACER (Public Access to Court Electronic Records) system.

**judgedoug**

Grugknuckle wrote:
Thanks guys.

So let me try to summarize my noobly understanding...GW listed a whole bunch of CHS stuff that GW claims has infringed upon their IP. Later, both parties agreed that some of things did not infringe the GW IP and one thing (the Hellhound) DID infringe. So CHS agreed to stop selling the Hellhound and GW agreed to drop the non-infringing things from the complaint.

Since there are still items that GW is complaining infringes their IP, the matter went before a jury and now we're waiting for a verdict?

There was no Chapterhouse Hellhound product (to my knowledge), which is probably the reason it was removed. Remember, GW claimed dozens and dozens and dozens of trademarks including things like skulls, arrows, roman numerals, medieval weapons (halberd), the chaos star, military marking, military unit names (imperial guard), including many that Chapterhouse never used (Hellhound). So Chapterhouse didn't dispute Hellhound and has no problem not making a Hellhound product. Many of the generic things were thrown out early on, and from what I remember, included many of the things that GW had never actually registered trademarks on, and several more were removed by the judge with prejudice (so GW cannot sue Chapterhouse again for those terms). The actual trial is much narrower in scope.

**Gorlack**

azreal13 wrote:
darkreever wrote:

Seriously, your insinuating I am trolling; how am I supposed to take that? Honestly, take a step back and look at it: older members being dickish to a newer one because they have differing opinions on the outcome of Chapterhouse vs GamesWorkshop?

You're supposed to take notice of the laughing emoticon and realise I was teasing.

Take your chop busting like a man noob.

Now now, I can see you both are quite new to dakka, so I would just like to remind you of rule #1:

1. Rule #1 is Be Polite! It's easy!

No need for the name calling in a 160 pg. thread about legal matters.

azreal13 wrote:
Besides, you've stated your opinion in a thread about a matter of law

There are bona fide legal types in this thread suggesting that you're well off base in that opinion.

Yes, this case is a CLEAR slam dunk for CHS, that's why it's still ongoing despite being started before you where even a member of dakka...

And I would like to mention that he isn't alone in thinking that CHS is in the wrong here. In my local group we all feel that CHS is truly just leeching off GWs IP and are at the very least morally in the wrong here.

But I won't start arguing my position further in this thread - I think we should all leave our personal opinions rest until after the judgement (which should be soon!) and for now let the great members that have been updating us keep doing their great work - thanks to you all!

**Herzlos**

darkreever wrote:

See this is what I was wondering, if Chapterhouse had a hand in getting this information made public then there is a bias to make GamesWokshop appear to be or be doing worst than they may very well be. I'd be asking the exact same thing if it appeared to be skewed in favor of GamesWorkshop.

Yup CHS may have compiled those pages, but everything contained in those pages is stuff that GW's representatives said. If it makes them look bad its not CHS to blame.

**RiTides**

So, since it's late in the day on Friday... I don't know how these things work, is the jury about to go into deliberations (do they work over the weekend?) or will there be more testimony next week, etc?

**morkian**

According to BOLS the jury has reached a verdict but no details on what yet.

With the number of claims I think a verdict this soon would be pointing to a slam dunk either way but you never know.

**Aerethan**

RiTides wrote:
So, since it's late in the day on Friday... I don't know how these things work, is the jury about to go into deliberations (do they work over the weekend?) or will there be more testimony next week, etc?

Closing arguments should have been yesterday or this morning, and deliberation would have been this afternoon assuming schedule didn't fall behind.

That said, I'm quite sure once there is a verdict it will spread like wildfire, and I imagine I'll be rubbing a few points in the faces of some local friends.

**Azreal13**

Gorlack wrote:

A bunch of stuff indicating a sense of humour failure

I was taking the piss out of a new user, as I indicated by use of a smiley, then further explained explicitly in a subsequent post, in which I used another smiley, which, by that point, I assumed would be obvious I was being light hearted.

Evidently not.

**Enigwolf**

I'm pretty sure that the Jury retires for another round of deliberations after closing statements, since some of the more hard-punch points typically come from the closing statements.

**ClockworkZion**

Enigwolf wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the Jury retires for another round of deliberations after closing statements, since some of the more hard-punch points typically come from the closing statements.

Word has it that closing statements where on the 11th.

**Gorlack**

azreal13 wrote:
Gorlack wrote:

A bunch of stuff indicating a sense of humour failure

I was taking the piss out of a new user, as I indicated by use of a smiley, then further explained explicitly in a subsequent post, in which I used another smiley, which, by that point, I assumed would be obvious I was being light hearted.

Evidently not.

Yes yes, you where quite hilarious...

On topic:

BoLS owner Larry Vela posted on the BoLS lounge that the verdict is in (but not know yet):

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?32996-LEGALWATCH-Games-Workshop-vs-Chapterhouse-Trial&p=318979&viewfull=1#post318979

EDIT: Damn, ninjaed... But at least I have the link

Also, Asrael and I took further zing'ing and other taunts to PM to avoid OT

**Shandara**

Fingers crossed. This has been a long thread and a long case.

**Azreal13**

Gorlack wrote:
azreal13 wrote:
Gorlack wrote:

A bunch of stuff indicating a sense of humour failure

I was taking the piss out of a new user, as I indicated by use of a smiley, then further explained explicitly in a subsequent post, in which I used another smiley, which, by that point, I assumed would be obvious I was being light hearted.

Evidently not.

Yes yes, you where quite hilarious...

What happened to rule 1? I would think patronising someone fall under that, practice what you preach my friend!

On topic:

BoLS owner Larry Vela posted on the BoLS lounge that the verdict is in (but not know yet):

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?32996-LEGALWATCH-Games-Workshop-vs-Chapterhouse-Trial&p=318979&viewfull=1#post318979

Back on topic, but 15 minutes late I'm afraid, poster several entries up already mentioned that.

**Kilkrazy**

I don't see the moral difference between CHS leeching off GW, and GW leeching off Aliens, Michael Moorcock, WW1, Dune, WW2, the modern US army, Starship troopers, Nazis, Soviets, the Roman Catholic Church, Samurai, Templars, the Greek alphabet, ancient Egyptians, Mediaeval Europe, Bram Stoker, simple signs like an arrowhead, et al... ad nauseum...

**czakk**

Something uploaded, but the public is not permitted to download it:

06/13/2013 395 JURY Notes. (lp, ) (Entered: 06/14/2013)

**Gorlack**

One thing I don't get is how long will it take before we can get the verdict?

It's been almost 1½ hour since Larry posted the verdict was in.

If no one is present at the court room to hear the result, how long before Czakk or some other guy can find it online? Could it be days? (I dread!)

EDIT:

You answered before I posted

is it normal it isn't public or is this an indication of something?

**deathmagiks**

In all honesty I don't really see any moral or ethical issue with a bits maker for Warhammer. Customization and personalization is what mini gaming is about after all. Well, not completely, but it's a significant enough part of it. It's no more reprehensible than someone modifying their own helbrute to fit an underwater diver theme and then later selling that helbrute imo.

Of course, were GW to actually make all the bits, models, customizations, etc instead of the simple baseline product, that's might be different.

Edit: In fact, isn't a big part of what GW encourages with this game is customization of your own army? Your own space marine chapter, for example.

It doesn't make sense in a business setting for GW to mold, create, package, and sell Angry Marines, for example. Why is someone else filling that niche a bad thing?

**czakk**

Presumably one of the parties or their lawyers will post up a news update. Someone over at BOLS might be at the courthouse as well.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorlack wrote:

You answered before I posted is it normal it isn't public or is this an indication of something?

I believe jury notes are questions from the jury to the court. "We don't get X, please explain again" or "We need more water" etc..

**ClockworkZion**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I don't see the moral difference between CHS leeching off GW, and GW leeching off Aliens, Michael Moorcock, WW1, Dune, WW2, the modern US army, Starship troopers, Nazis, Soviets, the Roman Catholic Church, Samurai, Templars, the Greek alphabet, ancient Egyptians, Mediaeval Europe, Bram Stoker, simple signs like an arrowhead, et al... ad nauseum...

Without getting into a long debate it comes down to that Games Workshop takes smaller bits as ideas and often ends up changing them. Original Genestealers? Xenomorph inspire. Modern ones? I'd say a lot less so (extra set of arms, no tail to speak of, two different kinds of heads, the fact that they have visible eyes).

Chapterhouse though was only taking GW's works (namely art as has been admitted) and tweaking them very slightly. There was never a collection of sources, just one that they have clearly stated that they were trying to keep as close to as possible without toeing over the legal line. This case is just their best chance at making it 100% legal by breaking GW's IP.

What I see if CHS slam-dunks this is a massive repackage and rebrand on everything GW can't protect anymore. The models likely won't change but I'd expect a whole slew of new packaging, new names, new trademarks, ect. And the bill for all of this would be passed onto the consumer. Yay us.

**adamsouza**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I don't see the moral difference between CHS leeching off GW, and GW leeching off Aliens, Michael Moorcock, WW1, Dune, WW2, the modern US army, Starship troopers, Nazis, Soviets, the Roman Catholic Church, Samurai, Templars, the Greek alphabet, ancient Egyptians, Mediaeval Europe, Bram Stoker, simple signs like an arrowhead, et al... ad nauseum...

That's because there isn't.

It's like the makers of green army men trying to sue other makers of green army men.