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Great to hear CHS will live on. I don't play 40k but will definitely make sure I have a look on the website when it is up, and see if there is something I can get to adapt to purpose.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Wonder what happened with all them probonoers

They left town, silently walking away and into the desert. They received no thanks and asked for none in return.
We may never know their names, but their legend will live on.

That is quite possibly the funniest post I have ever read of yours HBMC

 Chapterhouse wrote:
Hello folks, the web store will be up and going by the end of the week and I will ship out any orders that were not disputed this week as well. Hopefully the site will be able to stay profitable and I am hoping the defense lines will sell as well as some new products as well.

Thank you to those that supported Chapterhouse through the last years.

Nick

Well, there goes my rant on CHS being quietly dismantled and Nick spending the rest of his life on a warm island, sipping cool drinks paid with GW settlement money.
Not entirely happy (Blood for blood god, GW's corpse for his throne) but better than nothing.

Steelmage99 wrote:
Yeah, kinda like how I think GW will choose to not be bothered by the fact that Blizzard makes use of the title Farseer in their latest World of Warcraft expansion.
You know......

Kirby, "Blizzard, you say?.....yeah, no reason to be nit-picky......The small garage company?....KILL 'EM ALL!"

Because Blizzard would crush them, no doubt. It would kill the company.

GW doesn't have a track record of going for companies that can, y'know, fight back.

Herzlos wrote:
GW doesn't have a track record of going for companies that can, y'know, fight back.

Which is why I laugh when people insist PP's current conversion policy was spawned because of fear of lawsuit from GW.

The timing of a sudden settlement as well as a newly appointed CEO is interesting to me.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
The timing of a sudden settlement as well as a newly appointed CEO is interesting to me.

Maybe someone with brains suddenly decided to cut their losses.

 Kosake wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
The timing of a sudden settlement as well as a newly appointed CEO is interesting to me.

Maybe someone with brains suddenly decided to cut their losses.

That would really speak volumes about the new CEO, and I mean that in a good way.

If he went; "We have gotten all we can from this. We have shown a willingness to protect our IP, and all we can do from here is lose ground.....Settle! Now!" I would have an smidge more respect for him, as opposed to before.

The new CEO doesn't take over until January.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The new CEO doesn't take over until January.

Ahh....wasn't him then. Thanks

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The new CEO doesn't take over until January.

The new CEO doesn't officially take over until January...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The new CEO doesn't take over until January.

The new CEO doesn't officially take over until January...

Yea, but again, you're talking about outside counsel negotiating a settlement.

It is certainly possible that someone like Kirby or Roundtree came down from on high and, having a clear understanding of exactly what the state of the litigation was, declared that it must be settled out immediately.

That could have happened. At the end of the day, you need to look at everything in context. GW waited until the last possible moment to make its last ditch, aggressive, zero sum game gambit to stop the appeal. That involved freezing the defendant's assets and threatening to pierce the corporate veil and bankrupt the owner.

Is it reasonable to believe that GW's plan was to do that until the last minute before a court ruling and then suddenly switch gears? Clearly GW had a plan for stopping the appeal. It makes perfect sense to hold an asset freeze in your back pocket until the last minute because not only does an asset freeze force the trial judge into making a decision, but it also sort of forecloses the possibility of amiable settlement.

It might get you back to the negotiating table, but not with the opposing party in a good mood. As they say, you don't take a hostage you are not willing to shoot. If your threat get's the opposing party to flinch, you follow that up by doubling down on the threat because you have exposed a weakness.

That is how a bully thinks. GW is a bully. GW's counsel are bullies.

If your threat gets no reaction...maybe then you switch gears. But we know from the filings that GW's threat got Chapterhouse back to the negotiating table. The threat was taken serious enough that Nick was willing to extend his company's asset freeze in order to go back to the negotiating table, why wouldn't GW interpret that as a flinch?

Two for flinching Chapterhouse Studios.

Everyone - please endeavor to stay on topic here.

The topic being GW vs. Chapterhouse.

GW realized that they had spent more money on this lawsuit than they could possibly gain by Chapterhouse''s death.

I mean, Kirby called out the case in his excuses to investors letter, and called the amount of money spent on the case "indecent." That means that at least on some level, he had realized that they were getting almost nothing for all of the cash they've spent fighting CHS.

Now, I don't know if the new Chapterhouse store is going to look very different from the one post settlement.

And for anyone with legal knowledge here- I know that a settlement causes no legal precedent, so does the earlier court precedent stand? Can future lawyers cite the case and talk about how it is perfectly legal to use the Space Marine shoulder-pad design and name products that your conversion kits are compatible with?

weeble1000 wrote:

It might get you back to the negotiating table, but not with the opposing party in a good mood. As they say, you don't take a hostage you are not willing to shoot. If your threat get's the opposing party to flinch, you follow that up by doubling down on the threat because you have exposed a weakness.

That is how a bully thinks. GW is a bully. GW's counsel are bullies.

Exactly, they caved. Because GW, on entering this, were determined to take Chapterhouse out the back yard and put a bullet in it. They have consistently shown in the past they they don't just knock you down, they keep kicking when you're down till you stop moving.

The difference here is that Chapterhouse found or was found, by the kind of firepower capable of taking them dead on in court, their previous bluffed threats were finally called out and found more than wanting.

The senior legal was 'let go', Kirby called it an expensive cluster in his report and, it's brought a huge amount of bad publicity in the community press and on a wider stage and had the final appeal gone against them it would have been a much much wider press reporting on newly established precedent.

I have a very strong feeling that many in the company may not have viewed the constant legal crusades against small cottage industries providing 3rd party bits as particularly productive, especially with the rising threats of massed recasting in the far east and Russia, coupled with the looming threat of 3d printing technology. Especially when it stopped getting instant results and instead actually became a battle. I would suggest that as soon as the new CEO was announced, that he will have immediately been asked about direction and current projects and may very well have said 'get this expensive exercise in pride shut down asap'.

I believe GW folded and left the table. Chapterhouse may well have had the option to pursue to the end, but if he's offered a victory now (and he's back open for business at the end of the week...) then who can begrudge him taking the prize and going home to the prospect of earning money and regaining his life.

You are missing the point Stompa. GW was not in a position to walk away without Chapterhouse's sufferance. GW was dying to get shed of this appeal, but that couldn't happen unless Chapterhouse agreed to withdraw its appeal.

Instead of asking nicely, GW used threats to scare Chapterhouse into backing down. GW had to either get Chapterhouse to think the deal was too good to pass up or that the risks were too high to proceed.

Which way did GW choose to go?

@Weeble: I remember that when the asset freeze was revealed, I made a comment where I wondered if that move was designed by GW to force CHS back into settlement negotiations. Was that an unlikely motivation, or is that exactly what you're talking about?

weeble1000 wrote:
You are missing the point Stompa. GW was not in a position to walk away without Chapterhouse's sufferance. GW was dying to get shed of this appeal, but that couldn't happen unless Chapterhouse agreed to withdraw its appeal.

Instead of asking nicely, GW used threats to scare Chapterhouse into backing down. GW had to either get Chapterhouse to think the deal was too good to pass up or that the risks were too high to proceed.

Which way did GW choose to go?

Weeble I believe that you have the right of it for several reasons. Firstly there was clearly something about the Motion to Discover that had Chapterhouse rattled, otherwise why prolong the asset freeze? Secondly it's much easier to tough it out when it's not your house on the line. Thirdly

Hello folks, the web store will be up and going by the end of the week and I will ship out any orders that were not disputed this week as well. Hopefully the site will be able to stay profitable and I am hoping the defense lines will sell as well as some new products as well.

is not the sort of language you would use if you have just had a life changing payout.

Saldiven wrote:
@Weeble: I remember that when the asset freeze was revealed, I made a comment where I wondered if that move was designed by GW to force CHS back into settlement negotiations. Was that an unlikely motivation, or is that exactly what you're talking about?

I think that's exactly what he's talking about!

It's obviously open to interpretation, since we'll never know the settlement details, but I think weeble's wrong... because certainly one of GW's demands would have been that CHS close, and that obviously did not happen at all. So, regardless of what the actual details were, the fact that CHS can continue selling here is clearly at the minimum a draw, and can you imagine Kirby being OK with that outcome previously?

"We're going to spend millions of pounds... to allow a 3rd party bits manufacturer to continue operating per usual."

Lol

I think we can at least agree on that, right?

I think, much like after the initial verdict, we may be able to infer a certain amount by the manner that the CHS website returns.

 RiTides wrote:
It's obviously open to interpretation, since we'll never know the settlement details, but I think weeble's wrong... because certainly one of GW's demands would have been that CHS close, and that obviously did not happen at all. So, regardless of what the actual details were, the fact that CHS can continue selling here is clearly at the minimum a draw, and can you imagine Kirby being OK with that outcome previously?

"We're going to spend millions of pounds... to allow a 3rd party bits manufacturer to continue operating per usual."

Lol

I think we can at least agree on that, right?

How could games workshop expect to get in a settlement what it could not get at trial? A threat only goes so far. To get something other than the trial results, games workshop would have had to offer something in exchange for the value of the business.

Put it simply, you should not take a hostage that you are unwilling to shoot, but if you make a deal to release the hostage, shooting the hostage can't be a part of the deal can it?

 Azreal13 wrote:
I think, much like after the initial verdict, we may be able to infer a certain amount by the manner that the CHS website returns.

This most definately. What he's going to/able to sell will speak volumes.

He must be preparing an official statement too. I'd expect no less.

I would bet that there's some form of licensing fee being paid from CHS.

I don't think there's any way to know that, but I wouldn't be surprised. "We'll let the 25k slide if you pay us X$/yr and drop the appeals."

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
The timing of a sudden settlement as well as a newly appointed CEO is interesting to me.

I hadn't thought of that. It could very well have been a "Enough of this gak. Settle now, and let's never do this again!" situation.

weeble1000 wrote:


Put it simply, you should not take a hostage that you are unwilling to shoot, but if you make a deal to release the hostage, shooting the hostage can't be a part of the deal can it?

I dunno, they could be pulling a Hans Gruber and the hostage situation is a diversion from the robbery happening downstairs. Not sure how that ties into this situation. Maybe the analogy has run away with itself...


Anyway, we will certainly know a lot more when CHS reopens. I expect we'll see the removal of a LOT of lines, perhaps even the whole shoulderpad range, or perhaps just the things with direct GW analogues. I'd expect some wording to change, but just the fact the site's coming back is good news.

This will be a very anticipated website relaunch

After how much of a big deal was made out of this, I wouldn't be surprised to see Chapterhouse Studios getting a huge increase in sales when their website is back up...

I know I'll be checking it out for any Chaos stuff, but I think they've never had any.

It is quite interesting to think how the value of GW's 40k IP has altered over the last 4 years.

Given the value of an IP is decided by the revenue streams derivable from it, we can see that GW's gross turnover in 2011 was £123m and in 2014 was £124 - i.e. a cash increase of 1%, which after accounting for UK inflation equates to a real terms fall of 7%. In other words, the GW "pie" is 7% smaller than it was only 4 years ago.

One wonders whether any sort of piggybacking on 40k is worth the hassle, given it is declining in value so rapidly?

I guess its fine for one-man garage companies and the hobby market will sustain them for long enough. However I would hardly call it a growth industry as such!

Personally, if I were so inclined I would look at other companies who are actually managing to grow their IP value and seek to develop relationships with them - particularly as they would be likely to be far more friendly towards me than GW! It's what Battlefoam did for instance, and economically they are doing very well. Long term it makes a lot of sense. If/Once GW go down the pan, then aftermarket companies exclusively servicing their fanbase are surely going to take a big hit!

rigeld2 wrote:
I would bet that there's some form of licensing fee being paid from CHS.

I don't think there's any way to know that, but I wouldn't be surprised. "We'll let the 25k slide if you pay us X$/yr and drop the appeals."

I hadn't thought of this at all - interesting...