Chapterhouse Lawsuit - Settlement reached, Appeals withdrawn - Pg 234! Chapterhouse to re-open store

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Herzlos**

This is actually great news!

I'll certainly be looking at the site when it comes back to show my support.

**Saldiven**

I know I might be asking way too much, but I'm really curious.

Nick, would you be willing (and not in violation of any supposed NDA to do so) to discuss your overall experiences with the process, in it's entirety? What kinds of things did you learn that you believe will help you with continuing to conduct your business in the future? What were the most surprising/frustrating/interesting/amusing parts of the legal process as a whole for you?

I only ask because we've had about three years of speculation from people on the outside looking in, and I'm curious to know what the experience was like on the other side of the looking glass....

**MrFlutterPie**

Good news indeed!

I'm glad you are reopening and once again I hope that the settlement was in your favour.

You certainly held in there. I don't think I could have made it as long as you did. If you ever come up to Toronto I'll buy you a nice Canadian beer to relax

**xxvaderxx**

Nice to see the law do justice for once.

**Casey's Law**

I would pay to read about Nicks experience in Nicks words. If there isn't an NDA maybe that's a way to get some money flowing. Kickstarter to rub salt in the wounds.

**filbert**

I am probably exposing my hideous lack of legal knowledge here but oh well, here goes....

I wonder if in actuality, GW have folded and settled with Nick (albeit with a judicious use of an NDA) in order to make the case go away because they are worried about how losing the appeal and case would set a precedent. This way, the situation is still unresolved and somewhat a grey area and doesn't necessarily open the floodgates in the way a flat out loss would. Either way, from Nick's statement and the fact he is still in business would seem to suggest GW have left with a bloody nose and not the other way round.

**Desubot**

xxvaderxx wrote:
Nice to see the law do justice for once.

Da law did justice?

We never even got to the appeals..

**keltikhoa**

Great news! Glad you will be up and running again soon Nick. Hopefully I can receive my walls soon

and ill be showing more support when the site is back up

**RiTides**

Desubot wrote:
xxvaderxx wrote:
Nice to see the law do justice for once.

Da law did justice?

We never even got to the appeals..

Chapterhouse was not squashed like a tiny bug under GW's goliath foot... so I'd say that's something, at least

They took GW's best legal shot, and at the end of the day, are able to resume operations without penalty (seemingly). So yeah, I think that's as close to "justice" as our legal system can really get here

without years more legal wrangling, at least.

**Elemental**

Obiken wrote:
Congratulations to Nick for opening up again!

While I do not play any GW games any more, I'll definitely take a look at the web site when it comes back up, and buy something to put some cash into the company.

Same here. I just wish I was buying stuff from GW so I could boycott them.

**weeble1000**

filbert wrote:
I am probably exposing my hideous lack of legal knowledge here but oh well, here goes....

I wonder if in actuality, GW have folded and settled with Nick (albeit with a judicious use of an NDA) in order to make the case go away because they are worried about how losing the appeal and case would set a precedent. This way, the situation is still unresolved and somewhat a grey area and doesn't necessarily open the floodgates in the way a flat out loss would. Either way, from Nick's statement and the fact he is still in business would seem to suggest GW have left with a bloody nose and not the other way round.

Yes, that is a very reasonable interpretation. GW has a bloody nose. Nick has a bloody nose. Chapterhouse Studios has a bloody nose.

What makes me disappointed is that GW managed to get off relatively light. The appeal could have done a lot more than give GW a bloody nose.

A bloody nose is fine enough, but what GW really needed was for WilmerHale to go Stelios Kontos on it.

**Davor**

Casey's Law wrote:
I would pay to read about Nicks experience in Nicks words. If there isn't an NDA maybe that's a way to get some money flowing. Kickstarter to rub salt in the wounds.

Could he call it Nick's Codex?

**Kalashnichris**

Look forward to ordering!

**Tannhauser42**

weeble1000 wrote:
filbert wrote:
I am probably exposing my hideous lack of legal knowledge here but oh well, here goes....

I wonder if in actuality, GW have folded and settled with Nick (albeit with a judicious use of an NDA) in order to make the case go away because they are worried about how losing the appeal and case would set a precedent. This way, the situation is still unresolved and somewhat a grey area and doesn't necessarily open the floodgates in the way a flat out loss would. Either way, from Nick's statement and the fact he is still in business would seem to suggest GW have left with a bloody nose and not the other way round.

Yes, that is a very reasonable interpretation. GW has a bloody nose. Nick has a bloody nose. Chapterhouse Studios has a bloody nose.

What makes me disappointed is that GW managed to get off relatively light. The appeal could have done a lot more than give GW a bloody nose.

A bloody nose is fine enough, but what GW really needed was for WilmerHale to go Stelios Kontos on it.

Part of me wonders if the settlement was as simple as GW saying they'll forgive the $25K judgement in exchange for no more appeals.

**Desubot**

Wonder what happened with all them probonoers

**robam45**

Chapterhouse wrote:
Hello folks, the web store will be up and going by the end of the week and I will ship out any orders that were not disputed this week as well. Hopefully the site will be able to stay profitable and I am hoping the defense lines will sell as well as some new products as well.

Thank you to those that supported Chapterhouse through the last years.

Nick

This is a rare underdog win! I'm so pumped I totally plan on buying at least a few things as soon as the store is up.

**BaronIveagh**

Crimson wrote:

Well, at least in this case the difference in quality was pretty obvious; most of CHS stuff was rather hideous.

Depends on what you're getting. Some of the shoulder pads are so good GW got confused and put them on some minis appearing in WD, IIRC. The Chimera conversion kit to make a wheeled 'Testudo' (thank you BL for finally giving the wheeled Chimera a name) is very nice, and looks fairly good on the GW body.

IG female heads really do need a re-sculpt though.

@Nick: glad to hear it! Now I can finish getting my IG kits built! HUZZAH!

**H.B.M.C.**

Chapterhouse wrote:
Hello folks, the web store will be up and going by the end of the week and I will ship out any orders that were not disputed this week as well. Hopefully the site will be able to stay profitable and I am hoping the defense lines will sell as well as some new products as well.

Thank you to those that supported Chapterhouse through the last years.

Ah, some good news.

Desubot wrote:
Wonder what happened with all them probonoers

They left town, silently walking away and into the desert. They received no thanks and asked for none in return.

We may never know their names, but their legend will live on.

Yes, I'm pretending they're the good guys from a Western.

**weeble1000**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
weeble1000 wrote:
filbert wrote:
I am probably exposing my hideous lack of legal knowledge here but oh well, here goes....

I wonder if in actuality, GW have folded and settled with Nick (albeit with a judicious use of an NDA) in order to make the case go away because they are worried about how losing the appeal and case would set a precedent. This way, the situation is still unresolved and somewhat a grey area and doesn't necessarily open the floodgates in the way a flat out loss would. Either way, from Nick's statement and the fact he is still in business would seem to suggest GW have left with a bloody nose and not the other way round.

Yes, that is a very reasonable interpretation. GW has a bloody nose. Nick has a bloody nose. Chapterhouse Studios has a bloody nose.

What makes me disappointed is that GW managed to get off relatively light. The appeal could have done a lot more than give GW a bloody nose.

A bloody nose is fine enough, but what GW really needed was for WilmerHale to go Stelios Kontos on it.

Part of me wonders if the settlement was as simple as GW saying they'll forgive the $25K judgement in exchange for no more appeals.

That would be pretty easy for GW to do, although the actual agreement would be manifestly more complex. But in principle, sure, that is certainly a possibility. It would fit with a 'we'll take your house unless you drop the appeal' approach, as it takes the proverbial gun away from the proverbial head.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Desubot wrote:
Wonder what happened with all them probonoers

For a second there I thought you had written "proboners" and I was very upset, though appreciative of the play on words.

**BaronIveagh**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Yes, I'm pretending they're the good guys from a Western.

**Davor**

Desubot wrote:
Wonder what happened with all them probonoers

Wouldn't they just move on with a big feather in their cap about taking on GW?

**Jehan-reznor**

Chapterhouse wrote:
Hello folks, the web store will be up and going by the end of the week and I will ship out any orders that were not disputed this week as well. Hopefully the site will be able to stay profitable and I am hoping the defense lines will sell as well as some new products as well.

Thank you to those that supported Chapterhouse through the last years.

Nick

Yeaah! Expect to be busy in December, i will harass my Japanese retailer to order some stuff from you!

Can you start (or continue) a new thread in news and rumor section for the new stuff?

**TheKbob**

Good to hear that they seem to be thwarted or at least heavily stalled (GW, that is). Them putting CHS down would be a bad thing for the entire actual hobby, not "the purchase of jewel like wonders that are Games Workshop miniatures".

Wonder if they'll make bits and parts usable in other games since I don't have much need for "interstellar powered space armor super soldier" bits anymore.

**weeble1000**

Davor wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Wonder what happened with all them probonoers

Wouldn't they just move on with a big feather in their cap about taking on GW?

Well, how big is that feather?

This is from the wikipedia article for WilmerHale:

Reputation
WilmerHale has ranked in the top 20 in the popular Vault "prestige" ranking of the top hundred American law firms and on the American Lawyer "A-List" of the nation's twenty leading law firms based on revenue per lawyer, pro bono work, associate satisfaction, and diversity. According to the British magazine Legal Week, the firm ranked 14th among American law firms in terms of total revenue in 2006.

Clients
Among the companies that have recently been represented by WilmerHale attorneys include: Apple, Akamai Technologies, Amdocs, Analog Devices, AT&T, Avid, Bayer, Becton Dickinson, Biogen Idec, BJ’s Wholesale Club, Boeing, Bose, Boston Scientific, Broadcom, Cephalon, Citigroup, Credit Suisse, Chrysler LLC, Danaher, Deutsche Bank, Deutsche Telekom, Educational Testing Service, EMC, General Electric, Goldman Sachs, The Hartford Financial Group, Honda, HSBC Finance, John Hancock, JPMorgan Chase, Kodak, Lufthansa, Millennium Pharmaceuticals, Monsanto, Morgan Stanley, Novartis, Oracle, Panera Bread, PerkinElmer, Pfizer, Philips, Procter & Gamble, Red Hat, Sepracor, Staples, Statoil, Sun Life Financial, Thermo Fisher Scientific, UBS, Varian Semiconductor, WebMD, Wyeth, and Yankee Candle.

The firm took on an appeal that settled out before any briefings were filed.

Winston and Strawn and Marshall, Gerstein, & Borun took a case to a jury trial and prevailed on about 70% of the asserted claims. There's a feather there, certainly, although it would be a much nicer feather if the appellate court reversed the trial judge.

**Sean_OBrien**

Davor wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Wonder what happened with all them probonoers

Wouldn't they just move on with a big feather in their cap about taking on GW?

As Weeble pointed out - GW is small potatoes. Very small for most big law firms. It would be a good bullet for a junior attorney's CV - but most the ones who would actually be named on the case wouldn't even bother to update theirs with it.

Now, were that it would have gone on to the actual appeal - then you get a different level of distinction. Making case law, whether it is for Apple or the gas station on the corner is something that a lot of trial lawyers really like the idea of. The higher up the process it goes - the better (one of the reasons a case in front of the Supremes often has a list of lawyers attached to both sides that reads like a phone book).

Unless they had a personal interest in the case or the companies - I would imagine that there were more than a couple of disappointed attorneys when the settlement was reached. The ones with a personal interest might well have been pissed.

**TheKbob**

Sean_OBrien wrote:
Davor wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Wonder what happened with all them probonoers

Wouldn't they just move on with a big feather in their cap about taking on GW?

As Weeble pointed out - GW is small potatoes. Very small for most big law firms. It would be a good bullet for a junior attorney's CV - but most the ones who would actually be named on the case wouldn't even bother to update theirs with it.

Now, were that it would have gone on to the actual appeal - then you get a different level of distinction. Making case law, whether it is for Apple or the gas station on the corner is something that a lot of trial lawyers really like the idea of. The higher up the process it goes - the better (one of the reasons a case in front of the Supremes often has a list of lawyers attached to both sides that reads like a phone book).

Unless they had a personal interest in the case or the companies - I would imagine that there were more than a couple of disappointed attorneys when the settlement was reached. The ones with a personal interest might well have been pissed.

A side of law I never thought about. Thanks!

**Accolade**

From the perspective of GW vs. Chapterhouse (aka people who encourage 40k sales), I am fairly happy with the overall results. GW spent many millions of dollars to have CHS shut down, and not only failed that, but in turn lost a lot of their assumed "ownership" of many concepts (fur and roman numerals?...REALLY?

)

I think of this like 300, with GW being Xerxes.

They thought they could just steamroll through people with no repercussions or concerns, no need for validity to their claims. But this case tested their insolence greatly. And while they might not be destroyed (or even all that injured), the world now knows they can be beaten.

**Kid_Kyoto**

adamsouza wrote:
GW does pursue recasters by going after their websites, when they can. It won't acutally stop the recaster, but it diminishes their ability to reach customers, and demolishes whatever street cred they had built as a recognizable name.

GW shut down LowPriceWarhammer and CoolCastOrNot by contacting/threatening their web hosting providers.

Just blowing smoke here, but I wonder if Alibaba getting listed on the NYSE will give companies more leverage to go after various pirates. Obviously pharma, car parts, luxury goods etc are much bigger issues than tiny little GW.

Going after their paypal or credit card accounts will also work.

Anyway picking on Chapterhouse definitely showed a poor grasp of priorities.

**Steelmage99**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
adamsouza wrote:
GW does pursue recasters by going after their websites, when they can. It won't acutally stop the recaster, but it diminishes their ability to reach customers, and demolishes whatever street cred they had built as a recognizable name.

GW shut down LowPriceWarhammer and CoolCastOrNot by contacting/threatening their web hosting providers.

Just blowing smoke here, but I wonder if Alibaba getting listed on the NYSE will give companies more leverage to go after various pirates. Obviously pharma, car parts, luxury goods etc are much bigger issues than tiny little GW.

Going after their paypal or credit card accounts will also work.

Anyway picking on Chapterhouse definitely showed a poor grasp of priorities.

Yeah, kinda like how I think GW will choose to not be bothered by the fact that Blizzard makes use of the title Farseer in their latest World of Warcraft expansion.
You know......

Kirby, "Blizzard, you say?.....yeah, no reason to be nit-picky......The small garage company?....KILL 'EM ALL!"

**Yodhrin**

RiTides wrote:
Desubot wrote:
xxvaderxx wrote:
Nice to see the law do justice for once.

Da law did justice?

We never even got to the appeals..

Chapterhouse was not squashed like a tiny bug under GW's goliath foot... so I'd say that's something, at least

They took GW's best legal shot, and at the end of the day, are able to resume operations without penalty (seemingly). So yeah, I think that's as close to "justice" as our legal system can really get here without years more legal wrangling, at least.

Aye pretty much this. I'm sure a lot of us who like GW's IP but find their pricing ridiculous or their business practices abhorrent were hoping for a result that clearly and unequivocally punched GW in the metaphorical dangly bits, but at the end of the day it's not our livelihoods on the line if it had gone the other way so, on balance, a good chunk of judgements made against GW and Chapterhouse still in business is a positive outcome even if it didn't go as far as we'd have preferred.