Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Evilref - Doesn't the fact though that they still release miniatures like this tell you something?

Just because you don't like them doesn't mean that others feel the same way, and as I said in my previous post regardless of your feelings it's been a part of CB's Infinity aesthetic since the very beginning. It's not like they've just let some mentalist loose with the design who has just said 'boobs and ass lololol' and then proceeded to throw out a bunch of completely irrelevant style art and miniatures..

Maybe watching too much Manga as a kid, it takes considerably more than this to shock me or make me think of it as 'gratuitous'

remember, guys, "cheesecake crap" and "still not good" are just your personal opinions...
some of us disagree...
i find all of the Infinity "cheesecake" minis to be very mild, and not at all offensive...
so, stating your opinions as if they are fact is just as fallacious...

i am personally very happy that the Bootleg line will have some pin-ups, just as i'm happy about the Scarface dio, and the battle damaged minis...
the theme for July is TAGs, and will have a male mini in the first set of releases...
a later theme is said to be battle damaged, and i'm sure it will have a couple sexy ladies, as well as Yojimbo, a male...

much ado about nothing, as far as i'm concerned...

cheers
jah

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
The plan is to have themed months related to the bootleg line, this one is TAG pilots, some of the other ones mentioned was Battle damaged and non combat personalities.

Like Frank, the prolific pants stealing sex offender.

Evilref wrote:

 Empchild wrote:

Evilref wrote:
While I'm glad to see CB feeling able to do more collectors miniatures, it sucks that they've chosen to go for such gratuitous miniatures; 'pan-o pilot adjusting her stockings', really...really?

Being if you look around on CMON you will find models in the throws of hardcore bondage I believe that CB conducted themselves in an artistic level.

Just because there are worse examples in the genre, doesn't let CB off the hook. They've put out gratuitous cheesecake images. There've been multiple threads on this topic, and direct emails to them so they're certainly aware of the negative reactions (and message it sends about their game/hobby) that come from them doing this.

The argument of 'it's not as bad as X' is fallacious reasoning and doesn't hold up (sure, it's not as bad as some others, it's still not good though).

Simple answer then...don't buy them. Done and done!

 Empchild wrote:

Evilref wrote:

 Empchild wrote:

Evilref wrote:
While I'm glad to see CB feeling able to do more collectors miniatures, it sucks that they've chosen to go for such gratuitous miniatures; 'pan-o pilot adjusting her stockings', really...really?

Being if you look around on CMON you will find models in the throws of hardcore bondage I believe that CB conducted themselves in an artistic level.

Just because there are worse examples in the genre, doesn't let CB off the hook. They've put out gratuitous cheesecake images. There've been multiple threads on this topic, and direct emails to them so they're certainly aware of the negative reactions (and message it sends about their game/hobby) that come from them doing this.

The argument of 'it's not as bad as X' is fallacious reasoning and doesn't hold up (sure, it's not as bad as some others, it's still not good though).

Simple answer then...don't buy them. Done and done!

But also talk about it here, because otherwise this would be a very boring forum!

 Pacific wrote:
Evilref - Doesn't the fact though that they still release miniatures like this tell you something?

It tells me that they are just as guilty of playing to their sales numbers as Games Workshop or EA or Activision.

Evilref wrote:

 Empchild wrote:

Evilref wrote:
While I'm glad to see CB feeling able to do more collectors miniatures, it sucks that they've chosen to go for such gratuitous miniatures; 'pan-o pilot adjusting her stockings', really...really?

Being if you look around on CMON you will find models in the throws of hardcore bondage I believe that CB conducted themselves in an artistic level.

Just because there are worse examples in the genre, doesn't let CB off the hook. They've put out gratuitous cheesecake images. There've been multiple threads on this topic, and direct emails to them so they're certainly aware of the negative reactions (and message it sends about their game/hobby) that come from them doing this.

The argument of 'it's not as bad as X' is fallacious reasoning and doesn't hold up (sure, it's not as bad as some others, it's still not good though).

They've offered a choice between cheesecake models and non-cheesecake models. That's a hell of a lot more then what you can say about the other companies catering to the cheesecake loving crowd.

And what decent human being doesn't want his cheerleader squad to be sexy, I ask you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Evilref - Doesn't the fact though that they still release miniatures like this tell you something?

It tells me that they are just as guilty of playing to their sales numbers as Games Workshop or EA or Activision.

And that their sculptor love asses.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Evilref - Doesn't the fact though that they still release miniatures like this tell you something?

It tells me that they are just as guilty of playing to their sales numbers as Games Workshop or EA or Activision.

And CB make absolutely no bones about the fact that they make mins like that because they are extermely popular/ good sellers. Would you prefer that they made minis that nobody wanted to buy? Or maybe they should only make minis that you like and ignore the market for everything else? At the end of the day CB is business and if cheesecake sells they will make cheesecake models whether everyone likes it or not. (and just for the record i am not a cheesecake fan).

 jah-joshua wrote:
remember, guys, "cheesecake crap" and "still not good" are just your personal opinions...
some of us disagree...

Yes, please.

I love INFINITY, and I love our little section for it on Dakka Dakka, both here in this thread and in the dedicated section.

CB has clearly 'run the numbers' and knows what sells well for them.

If this line becomes a viable source of income for them, great!

That means good things for everyone, one way or the other.

It will also mean a lot of brush-fires over 'cheesecake' and such, and while some of that will undoubtedly be valid and on-topic, a lot won't.

Remember - only you can help prevent forest fires!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Evilref - Doesn't the fact though that they still release miniatures like this tell you something?

It tells me that they are just as guilty of playing to their sales numbers as Games Workshop or EA or Activision.

I made a mistake in writing that line, as really it is secondary.

'cheesecake' is part of anime/mange heritage, it is part of it and has been part of CB since the very beginning. I don't think they are just adding boobs and asses to try and make sales.

 Pacific wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Evilref - Doesn't the fact though that they still release miniatures like this tell you something?

It tells me that they are just as guilty of playing to their sales numbers as Games Workshop or EA or Activision.

I made a mistake in writing that line, as really it is secondary.

'cheesecake' is part of anime/manga heritage, it is part of it and has been part of CB since the very beginning. I don't think they are just adding boobs and asses to try and make sales.

Except they are. The statement was flatout made that the decision for the PanO tech to look like she does because "it would not sell if she looked professional or like a soldier".

Honestly I would have had far less of an issue if they had done all the models like the Maghariba Guard model where the 'cheesecake' is implied rather than just thrown in your face like it is with the Nomad, PanO, and YuJing models.

They showed actual models for those concepts?

I thought aside from the Maghariba Guard model it was all sketches only so far?

They did not show the models for those concepts, but given how close the models are to the concepts for any/all Infinity models it is not an unreasonable assumption.

Ah, I see what you're doing there...

Not nice!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Evilref - Doesn't the fact though that they still release miniatures like this tell you something?

It tells me that they are just as guilty of playing to their sales numbers as Games Workshop or EA or Activision.

I made a mistake in writing that line, as really it is secondary.

'cheesecake' is part of anime/manga heritage, it is part of it and has been part of CB since the very beginning. I don't think they are just adding boobs and asses to try and make sales.

Except they are. The statement was flatout made that the decision for the PanO tech to look like she does because "it would not sell if she looked professional or like a soldier".

I think while there are occasions when companies shamelessly just throw out whatever makes them the most money, at times it just so happens to coincide with their original artistic vision and intention so that there isn't compromise. Looking at CB's track record, watching those videos and seeing the thought and effort that goes into the creation of a new miniature, is it not possible to concede that this is one of those occasions?

Infinity has always had an element of "fan service".

I don't know that excuses them; at the same time, though, I don't know that it is a crime against humanity.

The bootleg series doesn´t do much for me so far. But plenty of people seem to like them and if it helps to finance the maingame properly, I don´t complain. I just want my Hexa with combirifle. ^^

It will not help anything really.

All it will do is pull sculpting resources from the main game.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Evilref - Doesn't the fact though that they still release miniatures like this tell you something?

It tells me that they are just as guilty of playing to their sales numbers as Games Workshop or EA or Activision.

Damn them for carry about a profit. I mean it is not like CB likes themself, they must hate having to make models that are cheese cake, only caring about there bottom line. Or it could be they like them and like the BoW video were they say they like the designs and not every thing is for us. As he said "that way you still have money in your wallet", there way of saying, you don't have to like just don't buy it. But you must be right it can only be about sell nothing else.

too much...


Just keep listening to “We are the World” on Repeat

 5deadly wrote:
Some Whiney Gitz up in here!!!!

...says the guy that ignorantly whined about a Turban a while back because he didn't know what a Sikh was.

Whining about whining doesn't get anyone anywhere.

Evilref wrote:

 Empchild wrote:

Evilref wrote:
While I'm glad to see CB feeling able to do more collectors miniatures, it sucks that they've chosen to go for such gratuitous miniatures; 'pan-o pilot adjusting her stockings', really...really?

Being if you look around on CMON you will find models in the throws of hardcore bondage I believe that CB conducted themselves in an artistic level.

Just because there are worse examples in the genre, doesn't let CB off the hook. They've put out gratuitous cheesecake images. There've been multiple threads on this topic, and direct emails to them so they're certainly aware of the negative reactions (and message it sends about their game/hobby) that come from them doing this.

The argument of 'it's not as bad as X' is fallacious reasoning and doesn't hold up (sure, it's not as bad as some others, it's still not good though).

Why do you think that there is more negative reactions than positive ones to their new line? Sex sells.

Just like with Hasslefree, I'm of the opinion that if they want to make cheesecake models, they should go right ahead. More money and audience for CB means Infinity will be around longer and I'll be happy.

I'm not the target audience, but the money they get will allow CB to produce models that I do care about.

They're taking a risk with something unconventional: models that aren't strictly for gameplay purposes. I hope it succeeds and they make more risks.

At some point the main game is "done". Despite its name, there can't be an infinite number of different units and models worth playing.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
At some point the main game is "done". Despite its name, there can't be an infinite number of different units and models worth playing.

There are however a large chunk of different units and profiles which do not have models--and that is not including TAGs.

Also worth mentioning that they are not opposed to adding new units without releasing a new book.
Look at the Authorized Bounty Hunters for example.

I like the Sexy Chick models... but I can paint, and I have a pulse.

you are right about whiners though man...

 Kanluwen wrote:
It will not help anything really.

All it will do is pull sculpting resources from the main game.

It's odd. I think I've already made that argument in detail somewhere else...

It goes like this:
If you don't like the Bootleg model's you're supposed to complain because:
1. The Bootleg models take sculptor time and effort.
2. That sculptor time and effort could have been used to make models you want.
3. Therefore the Bootleg models are the reason why you don't have your unreleased models yet.



So, naturally, if you're focused on the idea that CB exists to provide the miniatures that you want (a hypothesis at best dubious, given your history of complaining about their continued aesthetic choices), then, of course, the production of more models won't "help anything".

On the other hand, if the line succeeds, brings in a lot of money for the company, and as a result they hire more sculptors and designers, then... But that's just speculation by someone like me who doesn't run a miniatures company.

One of the things that you might expect it to do is allow CB to tell its artists "No, you can't do that model like that for the main line of miniatures for the game. They're doing that for the specialty line." Or give the people who want to buy that sort of thing something to buy. Sort of like Privateer Press's Extreme model variants, or the Bombadier Bombshell and Druid Gone Wilder models.

I guess I was too...vague/nice/clever by half before?

As this is exactly the tangent I was hoping to avoid in this thread?

And...deja vu all over again, anyone? (Yogi!)

If anyone feels the need to discuss the world bending implications, or not, of 'Cheesecake' in Infinity, head on down to the INFINITY sub-forum and have at it!

Otherwise... no more here, OK?

Evilref wrote:

 Empchild wrote:

Evilref wrote:
While I'm glad to see CB feeling able to do more collectors miniatures, it sucks that they've chosen to go for such gratuitous miniatures; 'pan-o pilot adjusting her stockings', really...really?

Being if you look around on CMON you will find models in the throws of hardcore bondage I believe that CB conducted themselves in an artistic level.

Just because there are worse examples in the genre, doesn't let CB off the hook. They've put out gratuitous cheesecake images. There've been multiple threads on this topic, and direct emails to them so they're certainly aware of the negative reactions (and message it sends about their game/hobby) that come from them doing this.

The argument of 'it's not as bad as X' is fallacious reasoning and doesn't hold up (sure, it's not as bad as some others, it's still not good though).

Wait, we are all in the wargaming hobby, right? The hobby which very often depicts imagery of ridiculous violence, with models standing on piles of broken corpses while they offer freshly decapitated heads to whatever entity/god/elder being that model is supposed to fight for?

And of all things gratuitous in the hobby, you decide to complain about CB cheesecakery?


Edit : Sorry, Alpha, didn't see your post before writting this one in...

If some of these are full dioramas I'm scared about the price, but I'll definitely be buying more than a few!