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I guess what it really means is that when you don't have the benefits of gene therapy, cybernetics or Alien DNA to make you some kind of close combat monster (with MA 3+) then you have to make up for it by being a bigger badass than the other guy.

Having CC 20 makes you the best of the worst, I guess, in an arena where the pros have MA 3. Of course, a Spetsnaz isn't going to be phased by someone with Natural Born Warrior too much.

Hopefully it is indicative of some kind of change to the CC stat for 3rd Edition. Because CC20 on a unit with MA2 and a CCW (why do they also have a knife?) is kind of bad. Especially a unit with access to the HMG for such a low SWC and overall cost (with super-special decoy camo as an option).

Overall, it seems like a pretty good deal. So the CC20 and extraneous close combat crap at least isn't throwing its game off. Camo attack plus the ability to ignore the cover mod (and apply the Shock ammo type against those NWI types without immunity) in shooting with access to that kind of firepower is definitely worth the price of admission.

The only downside I'm really seeing is that at only four points cheaper and no difference in SWC, there will never really be a reason to take the sniper version. Ever. But that is the problem of all profiles that can access both a vanilla sniper and the HMG. A four point cost difference for a bit of extra range and half the shots on the active turn is just a bad deal. Ariadna stuff is cheap, so finding four points somewhere isn't a difficult exercise. But I'm hoping these are only indicative of their pricing under the current rules and that 3rd Edition will give folks a reason to take a sniper rifle on a profile like this.

The parachutist profiles are interesting enough I guess. Probably wont see use in vanilla where you can grab paras with heavy weapons, but knowing that the Kazak list will have some forward deployers is nice. So they will have a bit of use there at least.

The problem with making changes to the sniper rifle or HMG to make the choice a bit tougher is it can't be in the points values. If they do it by making the HMG more expensive or the Sniper Rifle cheaper, we're going to be getting a lot of new profile updates via PDF, which is going to make the current situation of how spread out the profiles are even worse.

So if it's going to be done, we're looking at stat changes, as they can simply throw the new weapon profiles in the 3rd edition book and call it a day. Considering they said they're be tweaking some weapon range bands in 3rd edition, this could be their attempt to make sniper rifles a more interesting choice compared to the HMG.

Sniper rifles that have positive mods out to 48" would be a good start. Making HMGs +0 out to 12" might also be good. While high ROF might be good, at closer ranges you have to move the weapon around more, which is hard with a big, heavy HMG.

At a guess, this is our first look at a fully-3rd edition statline.

 Koni wrote:

 Erasoketa wrote:
Welcome Koni

Thanks

Welcome indeed!

So...

...can you confirm that it was just a typo, and that "Svalarheima" is in fact still spelled "S-v-a-l-a-r-h-e-i-m-a"?

Well well well...

Seems like Svaralamalaheiama (official new spelling by CB) will be getting quite a focus after all.

So is an "Operation" like a mini "Campaign"?

It was a mistake, damn xD

It was always Svalarheima!

 Koni wrote:
It was a mistake, damn xD

It was always Svalarheima!

*Whew!*

Looks like I can officially relax/calm down now too!

Very intriguing..

Starter set anyone?

We'll see... the official forum is wishing for it.

Time to finish my Dead Space based force.

 Knight wrote:
We'll see... the official forum is wishing for it.

Time to finish my Dead Space based force.

I require pictures immediately. IMMEDIATELY.

That sounds cool as hell.

I'm sorry to disappoint. Most of it is still in the conceptual phase and I do not plan to do any conversions. I'm not claiming the models have pure resemblance, just something I can see working.

Bolts (EVA suit).
Nisse (Arctic Suit).
Rao (similar to Bolts).
ORC

Either a Seraph or Toni to finish the list. There was no TAG in Dead Space, but anime I'm watching, Sidonia no Kishi has some rather interesting vibe to it. The Mechs and their battles are rather nicely done.

Maybe I could bug someone for Mantic Deadzone zombies, for the base. Maybe a body part covered in snow. I might be in minority but I enjoyed all Dead Space games, well, maybe the final DLC was an exception.

 Pacific wrote:
Very intriguing..

Starter set anyone?

My thought too. It would be interesting if they took this opportunity to put the new vanilla Nomad and PanO starters in a 2 player set (again to reduce SKUs).

The main issue I see with a 2 player starter for Infinity is terrain. While it's a concern for any wargame, Infinity requires a lot of it. If someone doesn't know this when jumping into a starter box with a friend, they're going to have a miserable time playing the game with little terrain. Even starter vs starter needs pretty dense terrain on a 4x4 board.

This can be avoided with flat packed cardstock or very simple HDF terrain, the way Dropzone Commander put a 4x4 city mat and 10 buildings in the starter box. They've got plenty of partners who could produce some simple flat pack HDF buildings. Mini rulebook, 2 starters that are semi balanced against each other, mini rulebook with the core rules, a few D20's and a ruler of some kind, some nice acrylic templates, printed sheets of cutout tokens, and some flat packed HDF or cardstock buildings. Done.

There's definitely a contingent of gamers out there who have looked at an easy jump in point for Infinity but have turned away due to the perceived complexity of just what you need to play.

Not to hop on the baseless hype train, but a starter featuring card terrain would definitely be the kind of thing that gets my money. It is surprising how much terrain can be packed in to one box if you go that route (the 2nd Edition 40k box contains easily enough terrain to cover a smallish table). That said, the way they envision terrain density (at least according to previous looks at Spanish tourney tables) means that they may include less terrain than we would assume (since North American boards tend to get pretty dense with tons of scatter terrain).

And I do agree about the sniper rifle and the HMG. The weapons fill roles with a lot of overlap and the sniper rifle (MULTI included) lacks a concrete role outside of direct threat projection. The problem is mostly that the HMG is just such a dominant direct threat. It has range, it has burst, it has high damage. Even on ARO it is a tangible threat against anything equipped with a shorter-ranged weapon unless they close the distance.

Special ammo sniper weapons have a pseudo-niche in providing a good ARO option. But they tend to be costed high for an attack that can likely be overwhelmed by a smart player (mostly, they only become a real threat in ARO when put inside a link team).

One of them needs some role revision. Though even then, I think the HMG could stand an SWC bump, but giving the sniper rifle a role that isn't so niche (ARO link team direct fire defense weapon... so long as it has special ammo) would be a big priority.

I still think range band changes could fix a lot of the overlap. They're the same damage, very, very similar range bands. But the HMG has 2 more burst without a significant enough points bump, considering how important burst is.

Simply changing the range bands and BS modifiers to give them more distinct effective ranges would go a long way to fixing them.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Not to hop on the baseless hype train, but a starter featuring card terrain would definitely be the kind of thing that gets my money. It is surprising how much terrain can be packed in to one box if you go that route (the 2nd Edition 40k box contains easily enough terrain to cover a smallish table). That said, the way they envision terrain density (at least according to previous looks at Spanish tourney tables) means that they may include less terrain than we would assume (since North American boards tend to get pretty dense with tons of scatter terrain).

We've already got some companies (Warlord Games) packing MDF terrain into starter boxes, Corvus Belli could easily do the same.

Topo Solitario has been designing Infinity paper terrain for a long time, and some of it has been done in collaboration with CB. I think it would fairly easy for them to arrange someting and put some printed designs in a box. I think each iKube pdf includes 5 detachable buildings. For a starter game in a small area that should be enough.

Ok... so...
That is like a DireFoes Mission pack but with 7 PanO figures against 7 Nomad figures and 1 V.I.P.

This is like a super DireFoes box and instead of a downloadable PDF file it comes with a rulebook... wich is 3rd edition... ok.

Terrain maybe?

also.... seven figures? Does this mean that in 3rd edition combat groups will be reduced to seven figures?

That looks neat...

The 7-Max Combat group idea doesn't really seem to make sense. I'm thinking they just did it that way since 7 gives you a good number to work with, without having 'too many'.

It does look like Terrain is included though, since the map picture isn't just a neat rectangle.

So it comes with Quickstart Rules and a... full rulebook? Or is that like a mission pack?

Interesting that it is PanO vs Nomads...

I'm calling it now. Pan-O force is lead by not-Elsa and the Nomad force let by not-Anna.

Also, this:

Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Edit: Looks like that's the QS rules (probably the same rules that are going to be in Ravage) combined with - possibly - new or revised profiles for whichever minis end up in the box. Plus dice, and possibly templates judging by the circular thing at the top of the printed map / mat. Oh, and a big box to put it all in, of course.

Interesting that it is PanO vs Nomads...

I don't know. There were other alternatives. The two candidates would make rather classic "steal the corporate secrets" mission. But, we'll see.

I just want new line infantry.

I was thinking that a starter box was a really long shot and I see this. I'm really surprised.

 Erasoketa wrote:
I was thinking that a starter box was a really long shot and I see this. I'm really surprised.

Likewise. Surprised.. but happy. Hopefully this won't be too far off £65..

 Siygess wrote:

 Erasoketa wrote:
I was thinking that a starter box was a really long shot and I see this. I'm really surprised.

Likewise. Surprised.. but happy. Hopefully this won't be too far off £65..

I'd imagine $100 would be right around the ideal price point if they can manage it. Split forces with a buddy 50/50 on price or something. Would be pretty reasonable.

I might do that to get more terrain, give my buddy the PanO and I take the Nomads.

Yeah, there won't be much profit for CB if it's sold at that price.. but it's really about getting more people into the game and they can make their money back selling shiny TAGs to the new guys

 Knight wrote:

Interesting that it is PanO vs Nomads...

I don't know. There were other alternatives. The two candidates would make rather classic "steal the corporate secrets" mission. But, we'll see.

I just want new line infantry.

Nomads and PanO are some of the most popular factions, so it makes sense.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Knight wrote:

Interesting that it is PanO vs Nomads...

I don't know. There were other alternatives. The two candidates would make rather classic "steal the corporate secrets" mission. But, we'll see.

I just want new line infantry.

Nomads and PanO are some of the most popular factions, so it makes sense.

Do you perhaps have official data chart to validate it? It's not that I don't believe you, as this was my thought as well. However I've based it on rather dated information when PanO were second on how well they sell (Aleph being the first as I recall). Nomads are very popular with my local players and unofficial surveys and traffic around various forums indicate the same trend, it becomes a problem of how much you're willing trust yours and other observations.