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Yeah... I mean, some people are 5something, some are nearly 7 feet tall, even with power armor when it's built to fit them.. .it's gonna be a different size. You've gotta have the proportions right, but i like mixing suppliers sometimes to get some variance in body type for squads... and race too.

Noir wrote:

sing your life wrote:They could be testing the waters, since a starter set is usually bought by people new to this hobby, so Corvis Belli can see if people are fine with having complex pewter miniatures to work with when they start, or if it would be better to offer the newbs styrene.

EVERY time CB has been asked they has basically said "We like metal".

It's more than that. In the BoW interview about Icestorm, Bostia explained it like this. Icestorm is the introductory set for new players, there to draw them into the Infinity game. They want to put their best foot forward, and and show them what they're getting in to. They make metal models, not plastic. They don't want Icestorm to have plastic models, and give new players the false impression that there will be other plastic models in the future, or others already in the current range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GrimDork wrote:
Yeah... I mean, some people are 5something, some are nearly 7 feet tall, even with power armor when it's built to fit them.. .it's gonna be a different size. You've gotta have the proportions right, but i like mixing suppliers sometimes to get some variance in body type for squads... and race too.

See I've got no problem with this (I use this excuse for my older models that look like Gorillas next to new models) - physical dimorphism just hasn't been done yet with actual models. If it's just a case of them wanting to make him bigger and more heroic, that's cool. They can't expect it to be the automatic assumption though, since until now they just haven't done that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alkasyn wrote:

 MRPYM wrote:
Wait, they are only making 5000 copies?

After that its gone?

No. bostria said ( to me, after the Interplanetary) that when this run sells out, they will worry about what to do, but nezt runs won't have the Csu for example. From what I'D understood, there will be other runs after this one. It all depends on how well it sells I guess.

If this is true, I can't see it not getting more print runs. I've seen plenty of hubub around the web with people climbing out of the woodwork eager to start this game, lured by the prospect of a 2 player starter they can split with a friend and/or easy access to terrain. I can see this starter selling very well, and expanding their player base quite significantly, so I can see them wanting more print runs of the starter set. I don't even think the 5000 will last until the end of the year, let alone into next year like they predict.

I'm just relieved to see that the HI (Father-Knight, Mobile Brigada-- the 'Diva of the box' segun Bostria, and ORC) are all on 25mm bases and not 40mm like they did with poor Tarik.

About the translation of the rules... I thought that too, so I downloaded and read the ruleset in Spanish. I can say it is not really an issue of bad translation.

I just hope they don't sell out at GenCon before my GenCon Ninja buys my copy. I wanted to make sure I got the CSU, and to have a copy before the NOVA Open tournaments. I may end up running a demo or two there. Depends upon what the TO needs me to do. It will be nice to have a copy of Icestorm, just in case.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Also not sure why they would not have the CSU since it appears to be a brand new Mercenary with a game profile.

So was Miranda, but she isn't getting a retail release.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Also not sure why they would not have the CSU since it appears to be a brand new Mercenary with a game profile.

So was Miranda, but she isn't getting a retail release.

Actually she is. She just has not gotten one yet.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Also not sure why they would not have the CSU since it appears to be a brand new Mercenary with a game profile.

So was Miranda, but she isn't getting a retail release.

Actually she is. She just has not gotten one yet.

Where did that come from. As only the ITS prize models was going to get a standard released (after resculpt) when last heard.

Noir wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Also not sure why they would not have the CSU since it appears to be a brand new Mercenary with a game profile.

So was Miranda, but she isn't getting a retail release.

Actually she is. She just has not gotten one yet.

Where did that come from. As only the ITS prize models was going to get a standard released (after resculpt) when last heard.

When she first came out?

Essentially she is going to be getting the same deal--a "new" sculpt when Acheron Falls comes out with the new Mercenary list.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Not at all.

The fluff is meh and the art is even meher. It's almost all "manga" styled artwork but when you get into Campaign Paradiso and Human Sphere you have a mixture of the two styles.

i could not disagree more with this...
i think the books are beautiful, and well worth collecting...
i have V1, V2, Human Sphere, and Paradiso, and i don't even play the game...
i bought them because i love the art and fluff...

as far as what is available on the market, i think that CB have produced something unique in the wargaming world...
to me it is worth it to put my money where my mouth is in support of the world they have created...
i will definitely be getting V3, too...

to each their own, i guess...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Not at all.

The fluff is meh and the art is even meher. It's almost all "manga" styled artwork but when you get into Campaign Paradiso and Human Sphere you have a mixture of the two styles.

i could not disagree more with this...
i think the books are beautiful, and well worth collecting...
i have V1, V2, Human Sphere, and Paradiso, and i don't even play the game...
i bought them because i love the art and fluff...

To be fair, I'm not really a fan of the "manga" art style. That puts a lot of V2 into question for me.

Especially when compared to Human Sphere and Paradiso, which have some of the "manga" art style and then it's offset by more realistic art plates.

as far as what is available on the market, i think that CB have produced something unique in the wargaming world...
to me it is worth it to put my money where my mouth is in support of the world they have created...
i will definitely be getting V3, too...

From what I've seen of the artwork in V3? It's a lot more of the realistic art plates--which is a huge selling point to me. They are trying to tone down the cartoonier aspects for their art which is great.

Complaining that the Infinity books have all of that "manga style artwork" is like complaining that something has chocolate in it. Or bacon.

to be honest, Kan, i'm not a Manga fan, in the sense that i don't watch much of the genre, or collect the comics, but when the genre does grab me i get hooked...
when Robotech first came to America, it ispired me so much...
same goes for Ghost in a Shell and Appleseed...
for me Infinity art ticks the same boxes...

i do like the newer style of the prints that came with the art book, but the simplistic style of V1 appeals to me, too...
i am looking forward to the new book, though...

cheers
jah

The 'manga style' really barely exists. I don't understand why people still talk about it.

What you have is a sleek futuristic style. techno armor, holograms and white plastic hexagons. Relatively realistic humans in a cartoony form. Occasionally, pink hair. But that's around anyway IRL!

For example, all the Human Sphere and Paradiso Art was pretty colorful, but generally realistic. Except for some Aleph stuff, but they're all androids anyway.

 Killionaire wrote:
The 'manga style' really barely exists. I don't understand why people still talk about it.

People talk about it because it's something that was very evident early in the game and is slowly being bled out of the game. For people that got into the game because of it, it's a bad thing because the game is losing the identity they liked. For people who got into the game for other reasons and don't much care for the manga aesthetic, it's a good thing because it's losing the identity they didn't much like and gaining an identity they do like.

For me, I love the new art direction, and have never much been into anime/manga. The new art in the books looks miles better than the art in the second edition rulebook, and the models have become, arguably, the best sci fi models on the market.

But I can certainly understand the position of, say, Knight, who (apparently, a page or two back) quit the game over the changes.

Can someone post a pic that shows this "manga style"?

As in artwork? Just open up the second edition core rulebook and flip to a random page.

For models, it's mostly about the design choices. The pilot arms hanging out of the TAGs is very reminiscent of the Landmates in Appleseed (of which Geckos a very, very similar). The original Kum riders on their monobikes were lifted right out of Venus Wars. The Maghariba Guard is clearly a Tachikoma (Ghost in the Shell spider tank).

 -Loki- wrote:
As in artwork? Just open up the second edition core rulebook and flip to a random page.

For models, it's mostly about the design choices. The pilot arms hanging out of the TAGs is very reminiscent of the Landmates in Appleseed (of which Geckos a very, very similar). The original Kum riders on their monobikes were lifted right out of Venus Wars. The Maghariba Guard is clearly a Tachikoma (Ghost in the Shell spider tank).

InB4 someone chimes in with "the rules are free to download". I don't have the book or any CB products for that matter as I may be getting into the game with N3 but no sooner. That's why I was wondering if there are some sample images on the web to show visually what people are talking about with this change in art style.

 -Loki- wrote:
That's why I was wondering if there are some sample images on the web to show visually what people are talking about with this change in art style.

http://www.data-sphere.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=849

Use google.
A great deal of it is out there, but obviously the best stuff is in all their books

I'm familiar with the concept art as I've lurked for a while in this thread for years but I haven't seen any "change" from manga style to anything else as, at least to my untrained eye, it looks relatively unchanged. I looked for some of the older IMO fugly figs like the current ORCs or the old monowheel Kum riders (to name two) and didn't see them. I suspect the pics on the page you linked are all from the "new" style, whatever that may be.

 warboss wrote:
Can someone post a pic that shows this "manga style"?

Right here.

Sorry, I thought it was clear but I meant within Infinity. I'm familiar with Manga style art going back to BESM for years but I've yet to see any personally within Infinity though admittedly my experience here is quite limited.

Just wanted to pop in here and point out that Neal at the Warstore is offering a pre-order on Operation: Icestorm, available on the Infinity pre-order page (or here for the direct link).

At 15 Infinity models for $100 ($108 with shipping), that's less then $7 a piece. There have been recent kickstarters that haven't been such good bargains, and that's without factoring in the rather nice paper terrain.

The GenCon dilemma: Pre-order for a discount, or pay full price at the convention for two more models.

Admittedly, it's one of the better problems to be facing.

 warboss wrote:
Sorry, I thought it was clear but I meant within Infinity. I'm familiar with Manga style art going back to BESM for years but I've yet to see any personally within Infinity though admittedly my experience here is quite limited.

That's fairly old concept art there. Mebbe it shows you how they drew motifs off anime elements.

I'm not certain what you're getting at really.

Knight, who (apparently, a page or two back) quit the game over the changes.

I have too much of their minis (almost everything with exception of knights) to casually do this. I'll pick some of the older stuff and occasionally play the game with others. If I can get it somehow, I'd still like to get two new Fusiliers, so I can wrap up the current project. Or use their new guns with Indigo.

Like I said, others like the new stuff, especially Nomads. And I know someone that would be over the Moon for having something like Father Knight (he had been drooling over Ajax and Tarik for ages, looking at them with envy) in his MO.

I'll pipe down once we get some sun over here. This must be how summer in Britain looks like, rain with amazing 10 minutes of sun in a month.

That's why I was wondering if there are some sample images on the web to show visually what people are talking about with this change in art style.

The style of concept art remained unchanged. Probably also the closest to manga, imo, was also stated that the guy that draws the pieces (or rather just ties them together as supposedly a lot of different artists are working on their own projects) really loves it. The art itself developed and somewhat distanced itself from earlier publishings, depending on what you're looking at (comics, art pieces or designs). I don't really have a problem with this particular development as it reminds me on some comics I've read in my youth, with the saturated colours instead of white-gray-black and more attention to detail.

 jah-joshua wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Not at all.

The fluff is meh and the art is even meher. It's almost all "manga" styled artwork but when you get into Campaign Paradiso and Human Sphere you have a mixture of the two styles.

i could not disagree more with this...
i think the books are beautiful, and well worth collecting...
i have V1, V2, Human Sphere, and Paradiso, and i don't even play the game...
i bought them because i love the art and fluff...

as far as what is available on the market, i think that CB have produced something unique in the wargaming world...
to me it is worth it to put my money where my mouth is in support of the world they have created...
i will definitely be getting V3, too...

to each their own, i guess...

cheers
jah

Couldn't agree with this more.

You don't have to like the massive-eyes and short skirt, Sailor Moon style art to like Manga. There is a tremendous amount of extremely cool, more 'serious' artwork in the form of Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Appleseed, Patlabor.. and dozens more. It's something we've never had in the west, and so much of comic and movie design influence comes from these Eastern sources.

The cover of the new Operation: Icestorm box is pure Manga influence, and if you get the art book (which I recommend to any fan of not just Infinity, but of this style of art) it is absolutely full of it. And, that is relatively recent concept work and design, a lot of which I'm guessing will probably appear in N3 and other books going forward.

IMO, you can't separate the two; Infinity has Manga/Anime in its DNA, you couldn't start to try and treat or remove it without killing the patient, or leaving them a hollow shell of their former self. It's like seeing a Mini convertable that isn't being driven by blonde 30-40-something, absolutely unthinkable.

Sometimes I do really wonder if Kan has ever made a positive post here.

In any case, Infinity is Infinity, the art, however you call it, manga, euromanga, realistic, the poses, the combat heels, the metal models, the fluff, the rules, all these and most importantly the team behind them has made Infinity the success it is and will be, you cannot take its different parts apart and still have Infinity.

CB is adamand about metal models for a variety of reasons, they like doing things in house and keep quality control at the highest levels and plastic does not fit Infinity, to get the quality and poses Infinity models have each model would need to be 10 or more parts and who would want that, besides when most of you in my opinion speak about "plastic models", you do not mean plastic models, but multiparty, multiposed models, that is not what CB is about and I have seen the relevant thread in the discussions subforum, for me CB is better doing what they do best, mind blowing metal monopose models we all love.

It's something we've never had in the west, and so much of comic and movie design influence comes from these Eastern sources.

Something being relative, I'm not saying the upper comic is Infinity but it draws (or it drew) on similar inspirations and I find their styles similar in few instances. Art isn't tied to the borders, I'm sure you could find some indie artists from Italy, Spain or France that had their own take on all this. I don't consider Infinity the first case in how it blends its styles but they do it in their own way, I give them credit for that.

PS: We need Kan to offset PS.

Impressive Icestorm set...
Anyway, 5000 copies is a high number. It wont sold out next year... unless Infinity grows reaching Warmachine levels.

I do hope that the ebay crowd gives it a wide berth.

Operation:Icestorm now available for pre-order at CB online store!

http://infinitythegame.com/store/index.php