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CB explicitly stated that the new edition book will just be a revamp of Book 1. It was also explicitly stated it won't contain Aleph or Tohaa units. As such, it won't contain any specific rules like Enomatarchos, Ghost:Jumper, AI Beacon, nor Tohaa Triad. I doubt it'll even contain fireteams and thus no Haris.

Well, IMO, thats friggin idiotic.
People that use those books will have to go to the Errata PDF's to find any updated rules for units introduced in those books.
OR
Not play with anything in those books if EVERYTHING else has been re-costed and changed skill-wise from those books.

Why NOT have all the skills updated in the main book. That way, you just refer to the N3 book for skill definitions and examples.

ski2060 wrote:
Well, IMO, thats friggin idiotic.
People that use those books will have to go to the Errata PDF's to find any updated rules for units introduced in those books.
OR
Not play with anything in those books if EVERYTHING else has been re-costed and changed skill-wise from those books.

Why NOT have all the skills updated in the main book. That way, you just refer to the N3 book for skill definitions and examples.

Becouse only the Ghost: Jumper can't be fixed by be just fixing the core rules and even Ghost: Jumper is just a timing issue. Then they want to price to stay the same or as close to possable. Plus it is not like every Unit profile is in the books anyways, you have to go online just to see some of the profiles. Online profiles are just the way of Infinity it been that way form the start and likely will never change. And that I wouldn't want it to as it would limit their ablilty to put out what ever model the felt like.

If they're not changing the rules in the book to any real degree I can see that.

I guess it all depends on how many rules are getting changed in the new edition. Seems like a few, but may not be that many.

Eh..

That's not what we've seen so far - there's a good amount of rules that are changing what I'd call a 'significant' degree.

I would appreciate a full compendium, however they do like their online material. I hope they update it and bind the rules from all different publishings, it is rather annoying for a first timer to go through all of it.

Well there are two options. In the name of backwards compatibility, the main N3 rule book will continue to contain outdated rules in it (model carrying rules vs. CASEVAC; changes to how dual wielding weapons worked; expanded skills that became leveled like Infiltration) so that the old rulebooks can then fix these (and then an N3 errata document can fix them to the current versions!). This is not only silly, but counterproductive.

The other option is that N3 basically does replace almost everything and that CB was simply making placatory comments about backwards compatibility in order to lessen the backlash gamers always tend to have against grandiose changes.

I mean, N3 has to fundamentally re-write a lot of rules at this point. The infiltration changes will affect Infiltration (which was changed to a levelled skill in Human Sphere), they will affect every weapon ever published (we already know the Spitfire is seeing change and it wasn't introduced until Human Sphere either). The way Loss of Lieutenant works now not only changes Religious, but will have an effect on Chain of Command (likely a cost decrease.

Every unit profile will need a second look and many of them need a point-cost update.

So while I can see the link-team rules staying the same (not quite true, since it will now rely on the Command Point system), so much of the rest of the rules are changing that the statement of N3 not making later books largely obsolete (aside from the fluff) is patently false.

N3 may not contain the full unit listings of the other books, but the profiles and most of the rules within those books will not be compatible with N3 even after the small sampling of changes.

So I'm just chalking up the early "don't worry, your books wont be invalidated!" rhetoric to CB covering their butts from the usual vitriol of edition change overs. Early on they tried to make it sound like a minor tweak and clean up. But N3 is anything but from what we have seen so far. Any chance of it not making most of the rules content of Human Sphere and Paradiso invalid is pretty damn low at this point. About the only valid bits are going to be the fluff. Purposefully knee-capping your own new edition to stymie the influx of nerd rage would be the height of counterproductive.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Well there are two options. In the name of backwards compatibility, the main N3 rule book will continue to contain outdated rules in it (model carrying rules vs. CASEVAC; changes to how dual wielding weapons worked; expanded skills that became leveled like Infiltration) so that the old rulebooks can then fix these (and then an N3 errata document can fix them to the current versions!). This is not only silly, but counterproductive.

The other option is that N3 basically does replace almost everything and that CB was simply making placatory comments about backwards compatibility in order to lessen the backlash gamers always tend to have against grandiose changes.

I mean, N3 has to fundamentally re-write a lot of rules at this point. The infiltration changes will affect Infiltration (which was changed to a levelled skill in Human Sphere), they will affect every weapon ever published (we already know the Spitfire is seeing change and it wasn't introduced until Human Sphere either). The way Loss of Lieutenant works now not only changes Religious, but will have an effect on Chain of Command (likely a cost decrease.

Every unit profile will need a second look and many of them need a point-cost update.

So while I can see the link-team rules staying the same (not quite true, since it will now rely on the Command Point system), so much of the rest of the rules are changing that the statement of N3 not making later books largely obsolete (aside from the fluff) is patently false.

N3 may not contain the full unit listings of the other books, but the profiles and most of the rules within those books will not be compatible with N3 even after the small sampling of changes.

So I'm just chalking up the early "don't worry, your books wont be invalidated!" rhetoric to CB covering their butts from the usual vitriol of edition change overs. Early on they tried to make it sound like a minor tweak and clean up. But N3 is anything but from what we have seen so far. Any chance of it not making most of the rules content of Human Sphere and Paradiso invalid is pretty damn low at this point. About the only valid bits are going to be the fluff. Purposefully knee-capping your own new edition to stymie the influx of nerd rage would be the height of counterproductive.

That's how I see it too.

Galicians, (people from the region where CB is located) have a reputation of being "menders", i.e people that would want to keep all other people, in this case, their customers, happy. It's just how they are at their core.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Well there are two options. In the name of backwards compatibility, the main N3 rule book will continue to contain outdated rules in it (model carrying rules vs. CASEVAC; changes to how dual wielding weapons worked; expanded skills that became leveled like Infiltration) so that the old rulebooks can then fix these (and then an N3 errata document can fix them to the current versions!). This is not only silly, but counterproductive.

I always so most of the Paradiso rules as a stop-gap anyways, just holding us over until the edtion change. Basically core rule updates, so they should be in N3, all weapon ranges and any rule that might have change for HS/Paradiso ammo and weapons (other them range it shoudn't be to much). But, ALEPH and Tohaa link rules (or Tohaa rules at all) and the campain won't, and thats really most the new rules. Just like they said they didn't want to put sectional and link teams in N3. But, a full stat only army list of all three book in N3 is only like what 30ish pages depending on the layout, that I would love.

For Command Token only has to say something along the line of "in HS and Paradiso when it says Lt. order replace with Command Token"

I would expect every single unit profile to be updated online, to rebalance points, CC skill, and add silhouette, as a BAREST MINIMUM.

Yeah, I'm not sure where the doom and gloom is coming from.

CB have been working on this edition for about 3 years. They've shown they know what they're doing (otherwise we wouldn't give them so much of our attention).

I've got no doubt that they've carefully considered how to handle the transition and how they're going to release the obviously needed new unit stats and rules upgrades from other books.

I mean, I get that people are impatient, but we're not talking about Games Workshop here. Have a little faith in CB.

I don't see the dilemma. Infinity's rules need to be amended as too much new material has been heaped on the current edition, The current English translation is confusing & balance issues need to be addressed.

If some elements of Human Sphere & Paradiso become casualties of progress, so be it. N3 won't invalidate all the fluff & artwork in these books. The campaign in Paradiso will still be great.

This isn't GW where a new edition means waiting for the next episode of power creep to crawl to your army of choice with a new codex.

 -Loki- wrote:
Yeah, I'm not sure where the doom and gloom is coming from.

So far I haven't noticed any considerable doom and gloom or any creep mongering. Currently we don't know how exactly this all going to mesh up and it's not unusual, certainly it shouldn't come unexpected, to see concerns of invalidating previous publishings or the annoyance of searching for FAQ and references. N3 so far is looking rather good, if they're really found a way to tempt me use PanO Knights (other than a good source of humour) and Serpah and actually use them in CC, that's quite impressive.

 Alkasyn wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:


That's the last image I saw of the render...Alkasyn might have a better photo.

That's all I got:

Hey guys,

Thanks for finding these Kotail photos for me . And you're right, I do think I had confused it with the Janissary. I love these pics, though, so it is all good!

When do you think we can expect this model to release? September, hopefully?

Yeah, my guess is September, as he looks quite finished on the renders. Maybe even August, as we don't have a list for this month yet.

It's best not to refer to releases by the month that they get previewed and instead refer to them by the month they will actually show up.

So if he's an August release, it would be referred to as a September release instead.

I was basically wondering the "when will the Warstore have him" date which if September, I was thinking the very last week of September. Even if it ends up being October, it will work for me. Love that model

Just got the first half of my Infinity force back from the commission painter and am planning out the second, so that's why I was wondering.

Pics somewhere please - I've been waiting to see wha your dirty Tohaa look like!

 RiTides wrote:
I was basically wondering the "when will the Warstore have him" date which if September, I was thinking the very last week of September. Even if it ends up being October, it will work for me. Love that model

Just got the first half of my Infinity force back from the commission painter and am planning out the second, so that's why I was wondering.

Pix, as requested. I've seen your commission painter's work with Warmachine minis. I'd like to see how he did with Infinity. He's got the skillz. I expect they look pretty good.

My guess is the Kotail is going to be available for order in Sept. I think Miniature markets may have a better price for it. Cheaper shipping in most cases since Neil raised the shipping rate to ~$7.

 Ronin_eX wrote:


So while I can see the link-team rules staying the same (not quite true, since it will now rely on the Command Point system)...

Wait, what? What's the Command Point system? I've read this whole thread and didn't notice that, is that a rumor from another source or did I miss something?

No, not a rumor. It's a confirmed new system in N3. Carlos mentions it in a couple of the BoW videos.
It will add in to replace some of the Lt Order stuff. There is no longer a loss of Lt resulting in only a 2 order pool. Everyone goes to Irregular for a turn.

Carlos mentions that Command Points can be used in place of the previous Lt stuff, as well as appointing a new Link team leader.

I definitely missed that too!

Interesting to say the least - need more info!

It's an obvious evolution of the Lieutenant system. With the other changes (Loss of Lieutenant not being as severe to encourage aggressive Lieutenant models, Lieutenant order automatically revealing him) it's obvious they want Lieutenant's to play a bigger role in the game, but not as severe a penalty if they die, since the game has moved beyond 'kill the Lieutenant' objectives.

Right now, they're more of a required handicap. You have to take one but the biggest influence he has on your force is basically losing the game for you if he dies. It really does feel like a holdover from when they only had two objectives in the game, one of which involving killing the enemy Lt.

Separating the command aspects of the unit from his additional order encourages aggressive Lieutenant's, since he can only use his order on himself, and adding separate command points means he can influence the game more than just shooting his gun or hiding. Add to that the toning down of Loss of Lieutenant and they won't be such a handicap to your list and if you want, you can be more aggressive and make use of that additional order.

It's just so nice that CB realized that the military has a chain of command.
The old lt rules were painfully gamey.

Yes, but that also depends on what the new rules are too!

I cannot help but wonder if perhaps it's just an evolution of the "Chain of Command" and the recently added "Number 2" rules.

What is the state of allegiances between CB & all the online resources for rules questions & army builders?

I use the aleph toolbox & the infinity wiki constantly. Which utilities out there will be updated directly by CB to coincide with the release of N3?

The confusing translation of 2nd edition causes a great deal of frustration when I play. Hopefully streamlined rules with an ironclad translation in N3 will eliminate the need for checking the wiki so often.

The wiki is maintained by fans, but everything on there is 100% official. All the rules are straight out of the book (poor wording and all), and all the FAQs are questions that CB has answered. I don't know if any of them will be updated immediately. The wiki will probably be updated the day it drops, but I think the official army builder didn't get updated for ages after Paradiso.

 Dheneb wrote:
but I think the official army builder didn't get updated for ages after Paradiso.

Is the Aleph tool box the official one? Or as official as it gets?

No, Devil Team is official. But that doesn't mean best, of course.