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Totalwar1402 wrote:True, but the engine driver is quite fully exposed.

That's okay, they aren't really the driver anyway.

Totalwar1402 wrote:With the initiate/scout thing I can see where you're coming from, basic troops should inform the armies focus. But autorifles rending ability at 30'', even when stationary, would just make them an obvious choice to take over basic SOB as rending can hurt MEQ and termies much better.

Somethng Battle Sisters can essentially do as well-- except that they're also more accurate and less vulnerable.

Keep in mind that troops also have to hold objectives-- and battle sisters are better at this, especially given that their power armor and increased BS comes at a price of only two more points per model compared to the novitiates and both units are 10-20 members in size. Battle Sisters can also take special/heavy weapons while Novitiates canno.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Rending in mass numbers is lethal and they don't have to faith uo to get it.

20 shots, 10 hits, 1.6 rending hits. Rending changes it from 9 to 10-12 strength. So for most vehicles the rending still won't actually mean anything due to strength three making it so that the absolute highest they can roll is 12-- and that's only a third of the time that they actually get rending. They don't get rending if they use rapid fire.

So on average a turn of sniping from novitiates will result in a 50% chance for one (1) S12 hit.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Your description of unerring accuracy for the initiates

You did not read the whole sentence.

"It was with this mandatory training that the Sororitas earned their rightful and frightful reputation for unerring accuracy".

Totalwar1402 wrote:but why not give them the option of taking double barrelled shotguns loaded with bolt shells so assault2 str4 ap5.

Not enough setting people on fire.

Totalwar1402 wrote:On a side note, do marines get more powerful shotguns than the other imperial factions, Iam sure I remember reading codex dark angels and them having shotguns with these stats?

Imperial Guard has R12", S3 AP-, Assault 2. Space Marines have R12", S4, AP-.

punkow wrote:Looks like a very good work... There are some points that need to be refined...

for example I do not understand the necessity of the blessed blades (that seems undercosted to me (str 6 no saves allowed is a little bit too much for sisters IMHO)...

Space Marine relic blade is same cost and better - Str +2 = Str 6 and no saves for 30Pts IIRC

Thirty points actually kinda felt overcosted to me. But it's what several people recommended to me, so I went with it.

Totalwar1402 wrote:With the initiate/scout thing I can see where you're coming from, basic troops should inform the armies focus. But autorifles rending ability at 30'', even when stationary, would just make them an obvious choice to take over basic SOB as rending can hurt MEQ and termies much better.

Melissa:Somethng Battle Sisters can essentially do as well-- except that they're also more accurate and less vulnerable.

Keep in mind that troops also have to hold objectives-- and battle sisters are better at this, especially given that their power armor and increased BS comes at a price of only two more points per model compared to the novitiates and both units are 10-20 members in size. Battle Sisters can also take special/heavy weapons while Novitiates canno. :Melissa end:

Aye, Iam not saying they'd be mowing down whole squads of termies any time soon; esp with inv save. Points ain't the issue, but its a bit strange the sisters having to give up the rending rifle when their skill with it will only get better.

assumes you don't want to get closer to uber men

sniper initiates 10shots 1/2hit 1/3 rend 1.6 marines dead

autofire initiates 20shots 10 hit 3.3 wound 1 marine dead

sisters at long range 10 shots 6.6hit 3.3 wound one marine dead

rapid fire sisters 20shots 2 marines dead

if sobs had the rending rifle 10shots 6.6 hits 2.2 marines dead at 30''

So they're giving up a chance to double their long range firepower by taking the boltgun over your auto rifle.

Its more a principle thing than anything else, people would probably be put off by high start price and lack of spec weapons (meltaguns); as you said.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Rending in mass numbers is lethal and they don't have to faith uo to get it.

:Melissa: 20 shots, 10 hits, 1.6 rending hits. Rending changes it from 9 to 10-12 strength. So for most vehicles the rending still won't actually mean anything due to strength three making it so that the absolute highest they can roll is 12-- and that's only a third of the time that they actually get rending. They don't get rending if they use rapid fire.

So on average a turn of sniping from novitiates will result in a 50% chance for one (1) S12 hit. :Melissa end:

I meant vs heavy infantry. I thought rending only did auto glancing hits?

Totalwar1402 wrote:Your description of unerring accuracy for the initiates

:Melissa:You did not read the whole sentence.

"It was with this mandatory training that the Sororitas earned their rightful and frightful reputation for unerring accuracy".:Melissa:

Yes, i thought you meant their accuracy was the reason they get rending, but its actually the rifles they are armed with.

Totalwar1402 wrote:but why not give them the option of taking double barrelled shotguns loaded with bolt shells so assault2 str4 ap5.

:Melissa:Not enough setting people on fire. :Melissa End:

No. No it is not. Both in the unit would be better.

Totalwar1402 wrote:On a side note, do marines get more powerful shotguns than the other imperial factions, Iam sure I remember reading codex dark angels and them having shotguns with these stats?

:Melissa:Imperial Guard has R12", S3 AP-, Assault 2. Space Marines have R12", S4, AP-. :Melissa end:

?... I guess their awesomeness supercharges the guns.

On the penitent engine, I thought the driver's psycopathic state was what drove the machine, as its effectively a giant arco flaggellant. Since the Imperium doesn't use AI (per sae) and unless they put one up in that state for the lols (punishment); I can't see why they'd bother.

Totalwar1402 wrote:its a bit strange the sisters having to give up the rending rifle when their skill with it will only get better.

No it isn't. The ones whom are best with it become Vindictors.

Totalwar1402 wrote:if sobs had the rending rifle 10shots 6.6 hits 2.2 marines dead at 30''

And they can, with acts of faith.

Totalwar1402 wrote:I meant vs heavy infantry. I thought rending only did auto glancing hits?

Rending IIRC against vehicles is s+6+d3 strength (you get rending on a penetration roll of 6). So in this case, 3+6+d3.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Yes, i thought you meant their accuracy was the reason they get rending, but its actually the rifles they are armed with.

They get rending because these are sniper rifles, not because they're BETTER rifles than boltguns. Game rules != fluff.

Totalwar1402 wrote:
On the penitent engine, I thought the driver's psycopathic state was what drove the machine, as its effectively a giant arco flaggellant. Since the Imperium doesn't use AI (per sae) and unless they put one up in that state for the lols (punishment); I can't see why they'd bother.

IIRC it's controlled by the priest who releases them, with very basic angry machine spirit not-AI thing for basic functions while the priest directs it.

Well punishing somebody by sticking them on front of a machine as it sprints maniacly at the enemy is a pretty miserable way to go then!

Um, when you roll a five or a six on the to wound table, i think that only confirms that you have a rending hit on the vehicle. You would then have to move to the vehicle damage table with a d6 roll+d3+str.

But, a sniper rifle is better than a boltgun...

Still, its a very good codex and its a lot less OP+OTT than the one I did when I was bored. Just a few thematic ifs and maybe's that I and others have mentioned.

IIRC it goes like this for rending on vehicles:

Roll to-hit. Roll penetration. If you get a 6, roll d3 for rending. Roll for damage if appropriate.

Totalwar1402 wrote:But, a sniper rifle is better than a boltgun...

Not an autogun sniper rifle.

I recommend you look at the Vindictor squad again.

Thanks for your input

With the introduction of sixth edition having been several months ago, I need some help redesigning this fandex for sixth. Seeing as I haven't played a game of sixth (I stopped caring about tabletop for a while).

Although if someone wants to take this work and adapt it to sixth, go right ahead.


[edit: Sorry if this is necroposting, mods, but I do intend to try to finish this for sixth if I get some help.]

Anything specific you need help with?

Feel free to nick anything from this minor version of mine....it should be 6th ed compatable with regards to rules

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?jbep8rls57okelu

A quick summary of the changes from fifth to sixth would work.

I admit to not having paid any attention to sixth edition. I still need to grab a copy of the rulebook, actually, but sadly my money is kinda being spent on xmas presents for family.

I'll see what I can put together - I am guessing its mainly special rules and mechancial changes you need so will try and formulate briefing docoument.

I assume you have the WD codex?

I do, much to my chagrin.

Thank you for your help!

I suppose there could be some stuff about Challenges and Martyrdom; suppose you get an additional Faith Point no matter what the outcome of a duel one of your SoB models is involved in? That way you'd get the Martyr part but still want your Characters to survive, as they'd be able to rack up additional Faith Points by winning Challenges (representing the Character smiting the enemies of the Emperor).

 Melissia wrote:
I do, much to my chagrin.

Thank you for your help!

PM with an email and I'll send over the stuff I have collated thus far