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Between the soldiers of both infamous death worlds, who is the superior fighter?
Catachan Jungle fighters
Death Korp of Krieg

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Twisting Tzeentch Horror




Sheffield

 Vaktathi wrote:
 purplefood wrote:
I think the Catachan could probably mess anyone up with whatever comes to hand...
In fact didn't Straken strangle a chaos lord with a vine?
Keep in mind Krieg troops have WS4


As did the catachans in the old catachan codex

Kriegs 1 redeeming feature of a soldier is their willingness to die.
If they have to suffer 10'000 casualties to do it then that's what they do.

Catachan on the other hand are dedicated, but not so zealous as krieg, catachans don't intend on loosing in the first place.

Of course each regiment have their own skills and capabilities, but by and lare Catachans are bigger, stronger, free thinking witha tendency for greater initiative than Krieg. They are superior in every way as a soldier.

After all some of Kriegs men die for little more than having the enemy expend a round of ammunition.
You can do that with an army of Whiteshields and sending them 'over the top' instead.

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 Eetion wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
 purplefood wrote:
I think the Catachan could probably mess anyone up with whatever comes to hand...
In fact didn't Straken strangle a chaos lord with a vine?
Keep in mind Krieg troops have WS4


As did the catachans in the old catachan codex

Kriegs 1 redeeming feature of a soldier is their willingness to die.
If they have to suffer 10'000 casualties to do it then that's what they do.
and that's exactly how the Imperial Guard functions at it's fundamental level...



Catachan on the other hand are dedicated, but not so zealous as krieg, catachans don't intend on loosing in the first place.

Of course each regiment have their own skills and capabilities, but by and lare Catachans are bigger, stronger
They've got big arms, it doesn't mean they hit all that much harder or are hardier. I'd also much rather have a decent helmet and a chemically protected uniform and some armor than a t-shirt

And the DKoK don't intend on losing, they just don't care about living, there's a difference. As long as their capacity to fight and die exceeds that of their enemy, then, to the Krieg mind, the battle is already won and it's just a matter of playing it out until the pre-determined conclusion is reached.

free thinking witha tendency for greater initiative than Krieg.
Which isn't necessarily actionable given typical Imperial guard commanders, nor are they necessarily good qualities in grunts. It's not like Krieg troops don't lack initiative either, just not when it comes to executing battle plans. In Dead Men Walking there's an excellent example of Krieg troops taking initiative, as when fighting Necrons they realize that their meltaguns are their primary killing weapons and that as Necrons approach a position, the other guys just get up and charge, realizing it means their deaths, at the Necrons with bayonets to give the Meltaguns time to recharge without being told to, and are subsequently killed by the melta-fire when the guns finish recharging.


After all some of Kriegs men die for little more than having the enemy expend a round of ammunition.
You can do that with an army of Whiteshields and sending them 'over the top' instead.
If you want troops likely to break that can't hit for squat and can't fight for piss.

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Any situation where life is expendable and losses are expected krieg is indeed the best planet for the job.

The catachans have big arms yes, so do guys who bench press large weights and heavy weight boxers. But the next step up in game turns is s4 which equals a marine, which is silly and not appropriate for an un modified human. By and large a larger gravity of catachan has been equated to enhanced musculo skeletal system, big muscles usually means improved strength. (I'm not sure but I think catachans did have s4 in their old codex, but my memory fails me so don't quote me on it)

But the question is 'Who are the best fighters' not 'who are most bad ass' man to man catachan are on the whole physically superior, more independent of traditional supply lines for extended periods of time and still combat effective. The same cannot be said of Krieg, and presumably given their typical expenditure of men and material, will be on borrowed time should they ever be stripped of their supply lines.

1 company of 300 catachans v 1 company of 300 death korps would tear them a new one each and every time. Unless plonked into trench war.

And yes sometimes the korps do advance knowing their efforts will fail, that they will need to expend several times that number in men and equipment in waves before success.

Kriegs advantage lays in willing to pay any cost to meet heir objectives, that is not the same as who are the best fighters.

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To ignore the strength, toughness and sheer willpower of the Korpsmen is a bit of folly. Their training regime is so harsh that the final stages, which take place in their isotope soaked wasteland of a world, are to weed out the weakest of the strong from the strongest of the strong - the weak will already have died during earlier stages of training.

They're also considered to be amongst the best bayonet fighters in the Guard (if not the best) and are essentially unbreakable - Catachans still give a damn about their skins. Plus, from a psychological level, the soldiers of the Death Korp are hidden utterly and entirely beneath their uniforms, armour & equipment, without a scrap of flesh showing - they are, essentially, faceless, without individual identity, and that can be extremely unnerving, especially when they keep advancing despite heavy casualties without any sign of stopping.

Difference is that one is a humourous imitation of 70s-80s action heroes mixed with US Vietnam era troops and the other is a dark, horrifically grim realisation of WW1 troops in 40k. One on one I would possibly go for the Catachan fellow depending upon circumstances, but 300 vs 300 I'm going with the Death Korp each and every time.

 
   
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Sheffield

Gee really. The weak die out in training? That sounds significantly less threatening than catachan itself weeds out the weak. You don't survive on catachan without being a soldier from the age of a child. The skills they learn there are the same skills that makes them such good soldiers.

And I'd take the Catachans ft long knife to a krieg bayonet.

300 kriegs men would be fighting a war they couldn't see, a battle they are unused to, hit and run, no static forces to shell or trenches to storm. They would blunder and thrash out, lurching from 1 ambush to another. Snipers would pick out officers, heavy and special weapon specialists, they would be bled dry.

I'm not debating to they have willpower to finish a fight to the bitter end. But that doesn't make them better fighters, it doesn't make them more capable in ambush, or camoflarge and concealment, or other traits demanded of soldiers.

In a siege absolutely krieg is the way to go, even extend that to open terrain.
But skill and talent, and generally physical superiority goes to the catachans

Krieg have that place, and that place is to die, to take a location no matter where or at what cost over any time period. But as for been superior fighters. Not a chance.

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No need to get so fanboy butt-hurt over it, everyone is entitled to their opinion. The fluff (and rules) happen to disagree with yours.

Anyway, going back to the original question, the Catachans are probably superior fighters, while the Korpsmen are superior soldiers.

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There you're putting it down as being fought purely in home territory for Catachans - bit of bias there. Also why can't the Death Korp make use of concealment, have their own marksmen picking off Catachans, have their own units ambushing the Catachan squads - just because you're good at something doesn't make you unbeatable and if it were a contest in an enclosed jungle enviroment who is to say that, buoyed up on being on their home turf, the Catachan's heavily under-estimate the Death Korpsmen and get butchered by them? You're trying to fit the idea of the fight around your biased opinions. What if they're fighting in open ground? It's impossible to fairly put the Catachans on the Death Korps home territory because after a few seconds the Catachans would have died from the isotopes soaking through their skins/uniforms & shutting down their nervous systems. They'd be forced to fight in environment suits, something they're not used to so that'd be a huge disadvantage to them as they blunder around getting hammered by the Death Korps volleys.

My point about the toughness/strength of the Death Korp is that it should not be underestimated. To harp on about the 'strength' and 'toughness' of the Catachans without acknowledging just how hard the Korpsmen need to be to survive their basic training, not even advanced training, is just a little harsh.

And frankly I'll stick with the Krieg's Lucius 98 Lasgun with its long bayonet - after all it has a lot of reach and it's still pointing a gun at someone. So you can still shoot them whereas with a knife, well, you have a bit of a disadvantage there.

 
   
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Death Korps in my opinion do to the fact they will pay the price and the mole launcher i mean a engineer with thee mole launcher Catchans think their hidden with in striking distance this engineer has been patrolling with the mole for the last three hours seismic sensors pick up something similar to footsteps catchan snipers trying to sneak in position pops up in between their sergeants feet boom their goes the squad

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As the original question was about who are the most skilled fighters, I would say the Catachans, as they individually are much more resourceful, inventive and skilled in stealth/recon operations than the Death Korps are. DK are on the other hand much more straight forward and conventional, but also more disciplined and has a larger focus on teamwork. Really they are two radically different fighting forces and would rarely be deployed in the same roles.

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THere's nothing to say the Death Korp can not employ stealth tactics, and someone needs to perform reconnaissance for the massive Krieg artillery regiments - just because a unit utilizes a particular way of fighting big battles doesn't mean it is utterly incapable of performing any other means of fighting.

The Death Korp are also very resourceful in their own way - would a Catachan fellow be capable of surviving on a radiated, isotope soaked wasteland? Cirumstances & context are very, very important.

To be honest both are exceptional fighters in their own way and excellent soldiers in their own way.

 
   
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Sheffield

 Omegus wrote:
No need to get so fanboy butt-hurt over it, everyone is entitled to their opinion. The fluff (and rules) happen to disagree with yours.

Anyway, going back to the original question, the Catachans are probably superior fighters, while the Korpsmen are superior soldiers.


What my Chaos and ork fanboism. Don't have a guard army, never will, but I'm sat in hospital bored and time to defend my case. So why not.

And what rules are they? Rules are fluid and change, I can cite the old catachan codex, which isn't worth spit, but it doesn't become any less valid in fluff does it?

I'd agree Krieg are certainly more disciplined than catachan. But then most soldiers would probably agree that ordering men into gun fire that slaughters them doesn't make them good soldiers, the term lions led by Donkeys was the term used to describe british troops of ww1 and the generals over them.

Courage and disciplined the death korps surely are. But that doesn't make them good fighters, and soldiering is more than just a bayonet charge over a trench.

They have their place, but does that make them good soldiers? Or fighters, disciplined, callous, determind and some cases ruthless. But soldiers have skills that are either no better in the korps or even a liability in some conflicts.

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I have no idea what you're trying to say anymore.

Korpsmen are not just dropped out of a cloning vat and thrown on the front lines of the Imperium's wars. Their training is extremely grueling, and casualty rates are extremely high even there. Even the most basic Korpsman fighting the Emperor's war is equivalent to a veteran of many conflicts from almost any other Guard Regiment.


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This is really a context battle. If the Catachans were trying to storm a fortified line or trench manned by the Death Korps, they'd get stomped. If the Death Korps had to capture a thick jungle or death world from entrenched Catachan guerrilla cells, they'd get stomped.


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I disagree, at least, if the DKoK are allowed to engage in battle the way they usually do. They would just level sections of forest at a time, advancing in an inexorable horde of bayonets.

Now, if the DKoK had to go into the jungle to recover something without the benefit of combined arms tactics, then yes, the Catachans would pick them apart Predator-style.

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Adding on to what has already been stated, the Catachan are among the best regiments when it comes to stealth, I guess that only the Tanith first are better. In the old Catachan codex, there is a fluff excerpt that describes Catachan being nearly invisible to even other guard regiments who were dumbfounded in the jungle terrain.
Also, Catachan are good at planting explosives, up close and personal, whereas the Kreig utilize artillery over the duration of a siege to accomplish the same ends.

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The Death Korps also has its own ''stormtroopers'' which the Catachans don't have, they'll have to really on external stormtroopers to do what the Grenadiers can do.

As for explosives: The engineers can have a demolition charge and so do the Grenadiers, they have a lot of demolition expert as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/24 20:52:10


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Sheffield

 Omegus wrote:
I have no idea what you're trying to say anymore.

Korpsmen are not just dropped out of a cloning vat and thrown on the front lines of the Imperium's wars. Their training is extremely grueling, and casualty rates are extremely high even there. Even the most basic Korpsman fighting the Emperor's war is equivalent to a veteran of many conflicts from almost any other Guard Regiment.



Which is exactly the same as 'living' on catachan. They are born to it. Not trained.

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 Eetion wrote:
Well, of all the soldiers, catachans are uniquely equiped to fight trench war on somewhat even terms, high quantaties of flamers and mortars, they get into the trenches and things are more even.

Let's say its a jungle planet, kried do have a trench system set up.
The catachans won't play to the Kriegs tune, its that simple. What ever way you cut it, catachan won't fight kriegs way. Snipers, moving mortars, fluid movable lines of battle are a complete anatheme to Kriegs way of war.

Krieg if they want to win this battle and eliminate the Catachans, will have to leave the trenches, because a battle between these 2 won't be fought this way, except if you put Catachan in an open plain in an established trench network and force them to hold it.
But then you might as well reverse that situation and put Krieg in a Deathworld jungle and force them to look for the catachans.

Catachans have more initiative, strong as an ox, vicious, they are better soldiers because there battle plans are not based around the 'if we make trenches here, it will only cost us 250'000 deaths to complete our objectives.


1. Catachans aren't equipped to fight in trench warfare, they're equipped to fight in jungles and use ambush tactics. Burn the forest down and the Catachans are left in the rain of heavy artillery.

2. The absolute worst thing you can do against a trenchline is move anywhere near it, as you'll be in range of their own artillery or gunlines. Unless you have heavy armor and break the line with heavy armor and a prolonged siege, you can't outmaneuver entrenched soldiers, they'll just sit their and hold the line.

3. So what if the DKOK follow the standard model of the WWI German army, where their trenchlines were the new German border? All Krieg needs to do is have a trench, fight the Catachans, and then advance a few feet and dig another trench. Eventually, the Catachans would have no place to run, as they'd be encircled by literal miles of manned trenches. The bottom line is what's already been said; the Catachans can win a battle in the forest, but the DKOK will utterly destroy them, the forest, and this argument in any engagement larger than that.

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 ENOZONE wrote:
 Eetion wrote:
Well, of all the soldiers, catachans are uniquely equiped to fight trench war on somewhat even terms, high quantaties of flamers and mortars, they get into the trenches and things are more even.

Let's say its a jungle planet, kried do have a trench system set up.
The catachans won't play to the Kriegs tune, its that simple. What ever way you cut it, catachan won't fight kriegs way. Snipers, moving mortars, fluid movable lines of battle are a complete anatheme to Kriegs way of war.

Krieg if they want to win this battle and eliminate the Catachans, will have to leave the trenches, because a battle between these 2 won't be fought this way, except if you put Catachan in an open plain in an established trench network and force them to hold it.
But then you might as well reverse that situation and put Krieg in a Deathworld jungle and force them to look for the catachans.

Catachans have more initiative, strong as an ox, vicious, they are better soldiers because there battle plans are not based around the 'if we make trenches here, it will only cost us 250'000 deaths to complete our objectives.


1. Catachans aren't equipped to fight in trench warfare, they're equipped to fight in jungles and use ambush tactics. Burn the forest down and the Catachans are left in the rain of heavy artillery.

2. The absolute worst thing you can do against a trenchline is move anywhere near it, as you'll be in range of their own artillery or gunlines. Unless you have heavy armor and break the line with heavy armor and a prolonged siege, you can't outmaneuver entrenched soldiers, they'll just sit their and hold the line.

3. So what if the DKOK follow the standard model of the WWI German army, where their trenchlines were the new German border? All Krieg needs to do is have a trench, fight the Catachans, and then advance a few feet and dig another trench. Eventually, the Catachans would have no place to run, as they'd be encircled by literal miles of manned trenches. The bottom line is what's already been said; the Catachans can win a battle in the forest, but the DKOK will utterly destroy them, the forest, and this argument in any engagement larger than that.


The Catachans don't necessarily rely on the jungle. They are all extremely fast, by the time the artillery is zeroed in, they are attacking your flanks. Not to mention that the Catachan 2nd is highly mechanized, utilizing a lot of chimera-chassis vehicles, their hellhounds could envelop infantry trenches in flame allowing for infantry/veterans/sentinels to take out the artillery with explosives/demolitions-ordinance

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I rather think you need to do a bit of research into artillery and just how damned quickly guns can be ranged, trained and fired between the request for artillery support and the rounds banging off towards the target as well as how fast humans, weighed down by equipment & weapons, as well as trying to stay in as much cover as possible, can cover ground. Artillery guns can be trained effectively counter for enemy movement speed & direction, landing rounds on target despite the enemy's attempt to manoeuver. The British gunnery officers were pretty good at that sort of thing during WW2, working out the complex equations in mere moments to get the rounds hammering downrange as quickly as possible.

The problem with these vs things is that people keep going "Oh yeah, well what if they have THIS. No mention of what the other lot get as a counter, because if I do that then it'll even it out and I can't have that." Then people assume that because Side A does 'thing H' that means instant lose for Side B. For example your Catachans on the flanks - what if the Death Korp get up out of the trenches, advance a short way and pour fire onto the manoeuvering Catachans? So much for the flanking attack. What if they put a heavy bolter at a far end of the trench and open up with it suppressing the Catachans? What engagement ranges are we talking about anyway? 100 yards? 500 yards? 1,000 yards? I'd love to hear how men in equipment and carrying weapons can cover 1,000 yards before being hit by ranged & trained artillery.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/24 22:38:31


 
   
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Sheffield

And krieg have unlimited supplies of munitions to blow trees up? And if those lines of trenches are circumvented and supply lines are targeted?

Having catachans fight intrenches isn't ideal, but they are equiped somewhat usefully for the task. High quantaties of flamers and melta weaponry, mortars, and the like. They are better equipped than most regiments.

My point is that Krieg can shoot all the trees they want. But to shoot a tree expends a shell that they could have shot against a living target. Catachans will not fight a trench war against krieg left to their own devices.

Catachans may be able to win a battle in a forest, yet 'any engagement larger than that' dkok would win. Which way do trenches face? It is presumed that the catachans are lined up together waiting to be shelled. Some may have circled your your tenches and harrassing supply lines, some may be right flank some left flank, some may be prepping a booby traps for an advance. Trenches are all well and good IF you know where the enemy are. There is a reason it has become obsolete in modern warfare.
And after the korps has extended their lines a few times trenches become empty or lines become weaker.

Man to man catachans are cetainly not as disciplined, but stronger, tougher, on a planet almost designed to kill you. They are using stealth and ingenuity rather than waves of canon fodder and a list of acceptable casualties.

Catachans are physically superior soldiers and fighters. That's not to say the korps are hard ass tough as old boots, but a lot of that is mental conditioning and devaluing their own lives as opposed to skill at arms.

A soldier that fights their battles by attrition does not mean they are good fighters. Resolute and determind certainly. But not nesacerily good.
I agree Krieg has its place in the 40k universe, but they are far from its best fighters.

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Are you kidding me? Not even a question...Catachan for both most dangerous fighter and most dangerous world.

Kreig? Krieg are numbered because they get slaughtered so often. They use siege warfare - relying heavily on gun emplacements/trenches/arty/etc.
Catachans infiltrate, use demo charges/flamers, they even settle personal disputes by knife fighting for Pete's sake! Just look at their physique for rough toughness comparison.
In the Guard codex, it describes the Swamp Rats covering themselves with nid gore to kill them. Enough said.

Individually, Catachans destroyyy Kriegs.

As for regiment vs regiment, there are so many variables - who is in charge of each, where are they fighting, etc. It would probably come up even (unless you were in the jungle or under siege)

As for the worlds, just throw on a hazmat suit and you are good to go on Kreig. Try the same thing on Catachan...everything will still kill you dead.


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 zgort wrote:
Are you kidding me? Not even a question...Catachan for both most dangerous fighter and most dangerous world.
Let us see. Catachan, a jungle world filled with vicious predators where even the vegetation will kill you. Every day is a struggle for survival - very dangerous. Krieg, a world soaked in isotopes that makes Sarin look like water vapour, where showing even the smallest amount of flesh is instant death. Right. So let's recap. A world where you can't show any flesh, even by accident, because you will die, or a world where you might or might not be eaten today.

 zgort wrote:
Kreig? Krieg are numbered because they get slaughtered so often. They use siege warfare - relying heavily on gun emplacements/trenches/arty/etc.
I'm afraid it sounds like you know little about Krieg. Krieg had a major civil war after an attempt to leave the Imperium. For 500 years this war dragged on and turned Krieg into a hellhole, but at the end of it, when the Loyalists had won, they instantly offered a high number of trained, veteran units fanatically loyal and capable of operating on the most radiated/toxic worlds that the Guard could fight on. So impressed were the Munitorium & the High Lords of Terra that the Vitae womb technique was introduced upon Krieg, much to the irritation of the Adeptus Biologis, that allowed Krieg to pump out as many of its zealous, loyal, fearless and extremely competent soldiers so that Krieg raises tens of regiments every year many worlds would raise one regiment every ten years. Krieg is essentially a military training ground for the many tough, hardened regiments they send off to fight for the Imperium. What makes the Krieg so special is their willingness to die for the God-Emperor, eager to pay a blood debt they believe they owe to the Imperium and their officers, who are drawn from the rank & file, are keen to use their troops to wear down the enemy until that enemy is incapable of continuing the fight.

The only Krieg siege specialists are the siege regiments, not the infantry or armoured regiments.

 zgort wrote:
Catachans infiltrate, use demo charges/flamers, they even settle personal disputes by knife fighting for Pete's sake! Just look at their physique for rough toughness comparison.
In the Guard codex, it describes the Swamp Rats covering themselves with nid gore to kill them. Enough said.
How very pleasant for them. The Death Korp also make great use of flamers, their grenadiers love their heavy flamers, and they have far better equipment than demo charges - the MOLE launcher! It's unbelievably awesome.

 zgort wrote:
Individually, Catachans destroyyy Kriegs.
I still doubt this, I reckon on the Korpsman with his bayonet against the Catachan & his knife. If you want proof of the bayonet being superior I shall point you at the SIkh's on two occasions; firstly Bob Napier's expedition to Abyssinia where, during the approach to Magdala, the Abyssinians charged the British flank where the supply train was. In between several thousand charging Abyssinians and the supply train were 50 Sikh sappers, who countered charged with their bayonets. Those 50 men, with their bayonets, beat the Abyssinians back and didn't lose a man. For a second example; Battle of Saragarhi and the famous '21 Sikhs'. It's worth reading up on, you'll be surprised. Until there is specifically a Sikh/Indian based regiment in 40k official stuff, the Death Korp are the closest we have to those unbelievable bayonet fighters.

 zgort wrote:
As for regiment vs regiment, there are so many variables - who is in charge of each, where are they fighting, etc. It would probably come up even (unless you were in the jungle or under siege or upon a toxic/radiated/isotope soaked world)
Fixed that for you there.

 zgort wrote:
As for the worlds, just throw on a hazmat suit and you are good to go on Kreig. Try the same thing on Catachan...everything will still kill you dead.
Hahaha. Seriously you think that is all it takes? Poor Catachans, clad in heavy, hot, sweaty equipment they're not used to against the Death Korp in their 'natural' environment in equipment suited ideally to where they are and that they wear all the time? If the Catachans show just the tiny amount of flesh the isotopes will soak into their flesh and shut down their nervous systems and kill them - the Catachan's only have to have a small accident and a tiny area exposed to be taken out of action by the isotopes.

Chaps, seriously, look up chemical weapons and understand just how deadly the surface of Krieg is. Catachan could, might kill you, Krieg will.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/24 22:55:18


 
   
Made in ca
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Krieg! What a hole...

The MOLE launcher really is awesome? Considering to get one eventually, as I'd like to have every option in PDF, but if they're good as well, that's all the better.

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Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
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Bradley Beach, NJ

I think that the dangers of Catachan are being severely underestimated, I mean it's a world full of bus-sized scorpions, man-eating plants, ferns that latch onto people's brain-stems and controls their body, that all barely scratches the surface without even mentioning that literally everything is coated in neurotoxin. The planet itself HUNTS PEOPLE. Being born on Catachan is the closest thing to a death sentence as is imaginable. While a suit will save your life on Krieg, only extreme skill and toughness can give you a sliver of a chance to survive on Catachan.

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 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

Right. So let's recap. A world where you can't show any flesh, even by accident, because you will die, or a world where you might or might not be eaten today.


I think we have different ideas of what makes a world dangerous. When changing your attire makes you able to survive, I would consider the threat neutral. Kreig isn't any more dangerous than a spacewalk. Would you die without a suit? Of course! Would you die with your suit? No!

Let's take a look at Catachan - pp 153 of the BRB "It is almost as if all of the biomass of [Catachan] has turned into some sort of man eating creature." - THAT, friend, is truly dangerous. Every moment of every day, you must survive against the planet, on which everything (even vegetation) is always trying to kill you (always). I think this is decidedly more dangerous than making sure your suit is on straight.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

What makes the Krieg so special is their willingness to die for the God-Emperor, eager to pay a blood debt they believe they owe to the Imperium and their officers, who are drawn from the rank & file, are keen to use their troops to wear down the enemy until that enemy is incapable of continuing the fight.


So they are special because of dying in droves? If attrition is how they win - let us reexamine the OP question - who is the better FIGHTER. Being willing to die to wear down the enemy doesn't make you a better fighter - it makes you willing to die for trivial causes.

Take a look at Catachan officers - esteemed hunters and warriors (so in other words, excellent fighters) not keen to waste men on trivial gains. This means their men will fight longer, and theoretically, become even more experienced in the art of war.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

I still doubt this, I reckon on the Korpsman with his bayonet against the Catachan & his knife...


I agree that the bayonet effectively makes a spear out of a rifle - which can be a truly devastating weapon. Indeed, US marines today are still trained with a bayonet. But history is full of individual instances. While the battle you point is impressive, let us look back to the Romans: Legions armed with short swords (similar to the 'knife' a Catachan would use) and effective tactics decimated the Greek phalanx style of combat (based on spears and overlapping shields) that had become the status quo.

The point is (pardon the pun), the bayonet does not necessarily equate to victory.

When I say (rightly) that a Catachan would destroyyy (three y's) a Krieg, I mean to say I think surviving against a biome of predators from your youth would create a better fighter than having to wear a gas mask and glorified long underwear while undergoing combat exercises (Which Catachans also perform)

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

Hahaha. Seriously you think that is all it takes?


Yes. Yes I do.

(PS this is all in good fun - I appreciate your opinion good sir. I am of course, hopelessly biased towards ma Catachans, but please do not let that take away from my supremely awesome arguments)

"And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels" 
   
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Bradley Beach, NJ

Also, I'd like to see a regiment of Krieg bathe in the acidic Tyranid gore. I fear that they wouldn't be creative enough. They're dependence on established tactics would have left them dead if placed in a similar scenario as the regiment whose name I can't remember.

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SoCal

Catachan...and for 3 reasons:

1) Marbo

2) Assuming even numbers a side, I think pound for pound a Catachan is worth more in experience and skill. Sure, DKoK have numbers and artillery, but that is assuming there's a protracted, prolonged fight where they can continually throw their clones - err, I mean numbers into the grinder. And yes, in that sense they would win. As someone else stated previously, the DKoK's motif of "Live to Die" doesn't really breed a good hard fighting soldier, just a meat shield - where as every Catachan "Fights to Live". And poison air doesn't make for a tougher soldier either. Sure it sucks to always have a rebreather on, but that's relatively banal compared to fighting off all matter of plants and animals wanting to kill you...daily.

and

3) Marbo
   
Made in ca
Heroic Senior Officer





Krieg! What a hole...

Krieg is filled with un detonated ordnance, so say, trainee #6402 steps on a shell, shells blows, everyone whose suit was damage is dead.
Plenty of danger here

''If you are not trying to kill eachother, you are not trying hard enough''
Quote from a watchmaster training his trainees in melee, right after nearly beating a rookie to death to demonstrate.

They constantly train, on leave for 6 weeks? Stay on the ship and train, those long months spent in the warp? Train! Sleep? Sleep with your gear.

If you survive long enough, you become a Grenadier, that is where the fun begins, eh eh.

Member of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal
Primarchs are a mistake
DKoK Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419263.page Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey

Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





SoCal

Well in the end...we all have our favorite Regiments (and I ain't hiding who my favorite is!). But then, really it's Battlefield Conditions who will rule the day. What's next? Vallhallans vs. Tallarn? But where? Ice World or the Desert? Elysians vs. Cadians? All boots on the ground or dropping in units from the sky? Steel Legion vs. Death Korps (actually that I would like to see!).... fighting on a Hive World City or in the Trenches? Its amusing...and about as "accurate" as Deadliest Warrior....lol. Each Regiment is known for something they excel in, so its ultimately up to a good Imperial Commander to make use of what Regiments are thrown his way.

Now you want the most dangerous and fiercest fighters? Put money on the LAST CHANCERS!!!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 01:08:33


 
   
 
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