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people shouldn't complain about $240. Your buying 24 mechs with that money, not to mention the crazy amount of extras. They shouldn't get mad about $500 mechs ether. If nobody buys them, they wont try that stupid cash grab again. Teach them economics the hard way.

Soladrin wrote:Really no, you can't. MWO is a game with a publisher, not a kickstarted game that's being crowdsourced entirely. Star Citizen clearly has everything shown as pledges.

MWO is "sort of" publishing itself, actually - IGP was founded in 2011 specifically for MechWarrior Online and Mechwarrior Tactics.
And, just like MWO, Star Citizen too is not entirely crowdsourced.

So, I don't see the difference. And if you think that Star Citizen "needs" to sell spaceships for $1250 to stay in development even though it has already raised several dozen millions, then why are we complaining about $500 'mechs with a gold paint job? At least MWO was already released.

MWO's problems have little to do with its pricing model but rather the sluggish rate of development for features that really need to come out. Ongoing problems that don't get fixed and the lack of game modes will killed MWO long before charging $50 for a mech.

As far as I know, world of tanks has one game mode. Nobody gives a dam.

 Ledabot wrote:
As far as I know, world of tanks has one game mode. Nobody gives a dam.

It also has a long progression track to grind through (like five of them now or something). Right now, MWO has a critical lack of content and the devs struggle to make more. Maps and mechs are one thing, but they need to either revamp the skill trees or add more game modes (they express intent to do the former and ware working on the later). They just take their jolly sweet time.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Ledabot wrote:
As far as I know, world of tanks has one game mode. Nobody gives a dam.

It also has a long progression track to grind through (like five of them now or something). Right now, MWO has a critical lack of content and the devs struggle to make more. Maps and mechs are one thing, but they need to either revamp the skill trees or add more game modes (they express intent to do the former and ware working on the later). They just take their jolly sweet time.

This. There needs to be different trees, each that gives different bonuses, like a scouts tree, with speed and acceleration boosts, and increased sensor range, and an LRM boat tree with decreased lock on times, and increased lock holding.
Sadly, this concept is beyond PGI.

And now having seen what they are doing to the clans.... I remember MW2, with its slow PPCs and lag-aiming-and it was still better. Non of this ghost heat nonsense.
I think that they need to overhaul the whole system, and drop ghost heat. As for the clans V IS balance? 5 Clanners V 12 IS is a fair match, given that 5 Clanners are meant to be equivalent too a company of IS Mechs.

5 v 12 would be hilariously stupid - already, I predict more than half of MWO's players to go Clan simply because they get better toys. I see no reason to further boost their ego by rendering any IS 'Mech a trashmob for them.

What I would have preferred would be 10 versus 12 - not only would this enable a "softer balancing", but it also fits to the background by pitting a Binary against a Company. According to sarna, a Binary is the equivalent of a light IS company and, again like a company to the IS, the most common formation employed by the Clan military.

I kinda agree on MWO's sluggish development speed, by the way, and would have wished that Community Warfare had been implemented way, way sooner. The studio seems to still suffer from a manpower shortage, so perhaps it's just that even though they are willing (they're still looking for new people for their team) they are unable to better balance the workload. It's a small, new company, after all, and from what I've heard a whole lot of the "tech demo" which Closed Beta was had to be reworked, including the upcoming UI 2.0 deployment.

The good thing is that the basic match - the slugfest of Mech versus Mech, the simple brawl - has always been and will always be fun, regardless of any other features tacked on top of it. Which is why I'm still able to enjoy it even after several years.
I do not play it all the time, however, but very irregularly (a couple matches every few evenings), which is probably why it's still "feeling fresh", so to say.

I think MWO left Beta too soon. This is an issue, I think, that a lot of Free to Play titles have- they think that "Launch day!" or being "Out of Alpha" will help draw in more sales. But really, if you're doing something that's got the proposed scope of a Galaxy-wide mercenary persistent world player driven system...

What they should have done was go into Open Beta when they went to "Launch". Allow everyone to play, to buy MC- and guarantee an MC refund or buyback option(not cash, just game currency) any time they significantly change something bought with MC or do heavy resets. Then they can take their time developing the systems- they can put out early versions of Clan tech, or Community Warfare projects- if it flops, or is too unbalanced, then they can retcon or redact it without too much trouble, 'cause it's Beta.

But as they're "Launched" now, they're afraid of implementing something that has too many bugs, or is unbalanced- because backpedaling in that case has a much heavier implied 'failure' state to it.

A lot of issues need to be covered before July. Content as mentioned is severely lacking with character development. The skills in my opinion are largely transparent. They have no noticeable effect in game. The skills need to have a more visible effect and need to be aligned in the originally planned class system. Specialize as a scout and you have more scouty stuff, go with fire support and you boost your long range stuff, command gets command type skills. I was really disappointed by the release and the lack of classes and played throughout beta expecting them to have it in place by release date. As we know that didn't happen.

Faction warfare needs to come out long before the Clans. It will make the clan onslaught so much better and feel like an onslaught. Plus it gives purpose to pointless fight after pointless fight. I rarely play more than a couple rounds in the mechs I am powering up before I go find something else to do.

Lastly and most importantly, PGI had better not fail us on the Clans. By that I mean it needs to feel like you are a clan warrior. Battles should be pointed differently, no assist exp, only the initial shooter gets exp off a mech, bonus exp and honor for claiming and killing larger mech chassis. Life should be difficult and not the standard grind like IS. They have already went in the right direction I think on the Clan infrastructure parts and wished they would have done something similar on the IS mechs, I mean really, I understand changing heat sinks and armor, not a big deal, but changing your internal structure is like switching the metals of the frame on your car. It should be cheaper just to buy a custom built mech.

What I do not want to see is cross tech. IS took years before they were able to use salvaged clan tech. It is like trying to use a telegraph on a fiber optics system. That's the difference in tech levels. And certainly no clanner would EVER stoop to using IS technology. Therefore you should have to have a separate character for clans and not be allowed to have both mech types in the hanger.

Fresh from the presses:

Developer Roadmap
Interactive Progress Chart

Summary
17.12. - Skirmish game mode, Sabre 'Mechs, new map (HPG Manifold)
21.01. - Cockpit Glass immersion feature
04.02. - UI 2.0, Weapon Modules, Automated Defense Turrets
04.03. - Dx11
18.03. - Achievements
01.04. - new Launch component (lobby, tonnage restrictions, private matches, etc.)
17.06. - Clan Invasion
-- list not complete

Estimates for Community Warfare
Faction Association: July-Aug
Territory Control: Sept-Oct

That is a very good idea, personally due to what they've done I will not be leaving

I have to say, that one thread is probably about the most transparent and clear communication that I've ever seen from a game developer.

BTW anyone know if the old MWs are up for free official download?

The used to be- you could get MW4 Mercs from mechTech- but with PGI's aquisition of the franchise for video games use, they had to take it down or face legal action.

God damn it PGI.

Anvildude wrote:
The used to be- you could get MW4 Mercs from mechTech- but with PGI's aquisition of the franchise for video games use, they had to take it down or face legal action.

Frack, was really in the mood for a single player mech game, well done PGI piss me off again!

You could check out M.A.V.- if you were a fan of Chromehounds, you'd probably like it. It's in Alpha Funding right now- Minecraft style. $10 buys the current game and all future iterations.

The Dark Apostle wrote:

Anvildude wrote:The used to be- you could get MW4 Mercs from mechTech- but with PGI's aquisition of the franchise for video games use, they had to take it down or face legal action.

Frack, was really in the mood for a single player mech game, well done PGI piss me off again!

Not quite the whole story.

So pretty much everything about the implementation of clan tech and mechs pisses me off... Sigh. So much for that hope I had that PGI was actually going to be smart about it.

I love how they were saying that UI 2.0 was going to be dropped before the new year and now it's suddenly two months away.

The clan prices are insane, the original MW Mercs had a 'mech library three times the size of MWO for fifty bucks. AND it came with competitive online play that didn't force you to spend money in order to advance.

All that being said, MWO is still fun, I think that PGI half-asses most of their stuff (why, I don't know). If the game survives long enough we could see it end up being a pretty impressive setup.

*Edit: Clan tech implementation will be done badly, I'm sure. Clan tech is supposed to be LEAGUES ahead of anything the Inner Sphere can deploy, but PGI won't do it that way because it'll be deemed unfair. Anyone who knows the lore knows this, and since community warfare is coming out BEFORE the invasion, anyone who runs for Rasalhague SHOULD lose almost all of their territory. Of course if PGI does what I think they'll do, they'll leave just ignore that and NOT stick to the story because of the collective butthurt that'd deploy because of the sudden loss of Rasalhague and DC territory.

Frankenberry wrote:The clan prices are insane, the original MW Mercs had a 'mech library three times the size of MWO for fifty bucks. AND it came with competitive online play that didn't force you to spend money in order to advance.

Sorry, but I just can't get such comments. There isn't a single 'Mech you cannot get for in-game currency - all you can purchase for money are customisation options, stuff you can buy for c-bills anyways (with early access for 'Mechs), and "Hero" variants with a c-bill reward bonus. What exactly are you "forced" to spend a single buck on to advance? Anything you can buy is either decoration or just a way to shave off some time from the grind (if you really think it's a grind rather than fun).

Frankenberry wrote:Of course if PGI does what I think they'll do, they'll leave just ignore that and NOT stick to the story because of the collective butthurt that'd deploy because of the sudden loss of Rasalhague and DC territory.

Just like the collective butthurt from Clan players if PGI were to restrict their numbers to the canon pilot ratio?
Please, let's not forget that this game is supposed to be fun for everyone, not just for the guys jumping on the Clan bandwagon.

I've criticised the devs myself in the past for some controversial ideas (such as the way they implemented ECM, which I still think sucks), but I have zero understanding for rants like the above, as popular as they may seem. -_-

From my perusal of the changes, it does seem that PGI is attempting to stick to that idea of high alpha strike with higher heat. At least, that's what I was taking away from their ERLL example.

I'm less than excited with their 'solution' to the LRM quandary, but think the Streak system is actually going to make them more powerful- after all, most Streak users are using them as blinders already. Imagine getting the same effect from one Missile slot with a Streak 6!

The Omni solution is strange. At first blush, it seems quite counterintuitive. I feel like limb swapping is one of those things that desperate freebirth mercs do on long campaigns, not the height of vatbirth warriors. It could be very interesting.

iv been into the game 1/20 as long as you guys and even still I think theirs not enough content being added

 Lynata wrote:
Sorry, but I just can't get such comments. There isn't a single 'Mech you cannot get for in-game currency - all you can purchase for money are customisation options, stuff you can buy for c-bills anyways (with early access for 'Mechs), and "Hero" variants with a c-bill reward bonus. What exactly are you "forced" to spend a single buck on to advance? Anything you can buy is either decoration or just a way to shave off some time from the grind (if you really think it's a grind rather than fun).

Compare the Phoenix Pack to the Invasion Pack. In Phoenix you got 16 mechs for $80, in Invasion you get 12 for $90. They're justification is that they tie real dollar values to CBill costs but that's always been stupid. It costs around 13,000,000 CBills to make a Raven combat effective (buy it, XL engine, DHS, Ferro etc) and it costs about the same to make an Atlas D-DC combat effective. In terms of CBills the mechs in MWO always work out to beteen 10 and 14 million depending to make them effective fighters making their base CBill costs in the store meaningless.

To then translate that into real dollars and gouge the players has long been ignored because they weren't being gratitous about it but now they are. Also note that you can almost rank the Clans in order of popularity based on their costs. Anyone really shocked that a Madcat costs $240?

The pricing is ridiculous. I want a Madcat and I'd like a Ryouken but I'm never paying those prices and getting a boat load of mechs I don't want in the process. I hope there's enough rage to get them to offer bundle packs and lower the prices.

Just like the collective butthurt from Clan players if PGI were to restrict their numbers to the canon pilot ratio?
Please, let's not forget that this game is supposed to be fun for everyone, not just for the guys jumping on the Clan bandwagon.

I've criticised the devs myself in the past for some controversial ideas (such as the way they implemented ECM, which I still think sucks), but I have zero understanding for rants like the above, as popular as they may seem. -_-

Does that include completely cutting customization from Clan mechs? Don't give me that crap about how I can swap an arm from one version for another. I can't change the base armor, heat sinks, or engine from what they say which means customization is going to be near non-existant (not to mention being stuck with whatever engine PGI puts in the thing and PGI makes stupid decisions on their standard builds 24/7 so expect them to be gimped from the get go). Half the fun of the game is customizing but they're pretty much stated there will be near none on Clan mechs. They've completely cut the ability to wiggle weight by taking less armor, or a lighter engine etc etc. Not to mention the apparent decision that Ferro will be standard and will be set to specific crit slots by default.

Expect no one to ever use the SSRM6 either. YOu'd get better DPS off packing 3 SSRM 2's anyway and have fewer missiles shot down by AMS so there's a worthless weapon that will never see the light of day.

I've said it before. Blindly adhering to lore from a table top game in a real time shooter has always been a stupid decision. PGI has broken from that but in the process they've stumbied into a very dumb translation that results in several pointless weapons and gimped mechs. As it stands I'm unlikely to ever use a single Clan mech because of the dumbness behind the implementation.

hopefully clan mechs get laser AMSs that give them a big advantage in terms of having spare weight for sneaking in another laser or MG and defensive bonuses

That's not really the point. Engine, armor, heat sinks make up between 1/3 and 2/5's of a mech's weight (more if using a standard engine). Not being able to fiddle with those at all locks a mech into only having a fixed amount of weight to play with which means there will be few viable builds resulting in unwasted weight. Throw in that PGI is setting those values and you're setting up for failure not to mention they seem to say that they will pick what crit slots are used by ferro armor and they won't move which further restricts the player because they can't move the armor slots around.

It basically means that out of the box clan mechs won't be very customizable. No toying with weights and space to optimize the build, no twisting around crit slots to squeeze in an extra heat sink, etc. It's basically the removal of what makes Mechwarrior Mechwarrior. Playing Clan mechs will be more like Mech Assault.

 LordofHats wrote:
That's not really the point. Engine, armor, heat sinks make up between 1/3 and 2/5's of a mech's weight (more if using a standard engine). Not being able to fiddle with those at all locks a mech into only having a fixed amount of weight to play with which means there will be few viable builds resulting in unwasted weight. Throw in that PGI is setting those values and you're setting up for failure not to mention they seem to say that they will pick what crit slots are used by ferro armor and they won't move which further restricts the player because they can't move the armor slots around.

It basically means that out of the box clan mechs won't be very customizable. No toying with weights and space to optimize the build, no twisting around crit slots to squeeze in an extra heat sink, etc. It's basically the removal of what makes Mechwarrior Mechwarrior. Playing Clan mechs will be more like Mech Assault.

I know, I'm not disagreeing, just hoping for some positive things, personally I like my 'mechs being large hulking and carrying a massive punch so even having a few tons left for additions makes me smile, having the AMS really gives me a nice thought as its a massive turret and even still only is used for missile defence, gives a bit of weight to my larger guns!

It's basically the removal of what makes Mechwarrior Mechwarrior

customisation makes MW MW for you? for me its the size, weight and strength you have piloting battlemechs.

Gitzbitah wrote:The Omni solution is strange. At first blush, it seems quite counterintuitive. I feel like limb swapping is one of those things that desperate freebirth mercs do on long campaigns, not the height of vatbirth warriors. It could be very interesting.

"Limb swapping" is how the Omnis are supposed to work in the background, actually. Normally, a 'Mech is very much hardlocked into its configuration, with very few techs daring to so much as swap out anything. The customisation in MWO is very atypical for the fluff, but it's been a staple of most Battletech video games so far. What PGI did here was to use the Clans' unique weapon pod technology to allow swapping hardpoints - balanced by closer adherence to the canon when it comes to the CT and most upgrades.

Will have to see how it works out, but it sounds like a clever way of tackling the issue, which is that the Clans get tons of "+1" advantages over the IS, yet ultimately you want a game where both teams have the same chance in a single individual match.

Agreed about the LRM criticism, though. I don't like it both from a mechanical as well as a realism PoV.

LordofHats wrote:Compare the Phoenix Pack to the Invasion Pack. In Phoenix you got 16 mechs for $80, in Invasion you get 12 for $90. They're justification is that they tie real dollar values to CBill costs but that's always been stupid.

You are also forgetting or ignoring that the Invasion Pack you referenced includes 30 days of Premium Time, worth about ~12 dollars (if you buy the 6.500 MC pack - more if you go for one of the smaller options).

LordofHats wrote:Also note that you can almost rank the Clans in order of popularity based on their costs. Anyone really shocked that a Madcat costs $240?

No. Are you shocked that a company providing an F2P game wants (needs) to make money?

Again, none of this ties in to the above comment that somehow PGI would "force" people to spend cash. That's BS. You can perfectly play the game and have fun not spending a single cent on it (in fact some of my friends do just that), it only means it takes you longer to get where you want, and that you'll miss out on some cool customisation. There needs to be some incentive for people to actually spend money on this game. We're not living in Communism.

LordofHats wrote:Does that include completely cutting customization from Clan mechs? Don't give me that crap about how I can swap an arm from one version for another. I can't change the base armor, heat sinks, or engine from what they say which means customization is going to be near non-existant (not to mention being stuck with whatever engine PGI puts in the thing and PGI makes stupid decisions on their standard builds 24/7 so expect them to be gimped from the get go).

They are swapping one type of customisation for another. You get to customise your hardpoints and thus have greater control over the weapons loadout you bring into battle. On the downside, you'll be locked into a specific CT with engine and armour specs. That's called balancing. Again: MWO is not supposed to be fun only for Clanners.

Canonically, armour and engine swapping should be nearly impossible for anyone, Clan or IS. Is it perhaps that people are "jaded" as to what was possible in previous single player games that didn't have to pay too attention to balance between players?

LordofHats wrote:Expect no one to ever use the SSRM6 either. YOu'd get better DPS off packing 3 SSRM 2's anyway and have fewer missiles shot down by AMS so there's a worthless weapon that will never see the light of day.

Except of course on those 'Mechs who only have 1-2 missile hardpoints in their pods, or want to throw in a couple LRMs.

LordofHats wrote:I've said it before. Blindly adhering to lore from a table top game in a real time shooter has always been a stupid decision. PGI has broken from that but in the process they've stumbied into a very dumb translation that results in several pointless weapons and gimped mechs.

How would you have done it? I have a feeling I'd be able to point out glaring flaws just as fast, but maybe you can surprise me.

Yeah, customization is really what makes the game for me (and the lack of it is why I didn't like Mech Assault, even though otherwise there really wasn't much wrong with the game). Being able to build my mech is a big reason why I play MWO.

I hoped that the introduction of Clan Mechs, which don't have variants configuration be damned, would finally get them off their butts to fix the pilot trees. Apparently not. Instead they'll leave them as is and create this bizarre system where switching an arm for another will somehow make up for the gimped weight restrictions.

How would you have done it? I have a feeling I'd be able to point out glaring flaws just as fast, but maybe you can surprise me.

I honestly would have just cut out configurations, fixed the pilot trees and made Clan mechs no different from IS mechs save they have omni slots on them. PGI goes on a speel about how in past Mechwarrior titles CLan tech was alway better than IS (which is true) and that that works for a single player game but not multi-player and that's complete bullgak. It works just as well in a multiplayer game as a single player. Just treat clan weapons as a higher teir of weapons for players to grind for. No one would ever use IS weapons sure, but it's not like the game isn't already filled with variant mechs and weapons no one ever uses anyway so who really cares?

Lynata wrote:

LordofHats wrote:I've said it before. Blindly adhering to lore from a table top game in a real time shooter has always been a stupid decision. PGI has broken from that but in the process they've stumbied into a very dumb translation that results in several pointless weapons and gimped mechs.

How would you have done it? I have a feeling I'd be able to point out glaring flaws just as fast, but maybe you can surprise me.

personally, even though this was not addressed to me was having them OP and a star VS a company