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Ussually the AT gun is just a way to use the extra points I always seem to have and only with the nebbies not the panzerwerfers.

Company HQ:
CiC Smg, 2iC Smg 55
upgrade two teams to Panzerfaust Smg team 20
no anti-tank section 0

Combat Platoons:
3 Panzergrenadier Squads (Cmd Panzerfaust/Smg, 6x MG, 3x trucks) 250
no additional panzerfaust present 0

3 Panzergrenadier Squads (Cmd Panzerfaust/Smg, 6x MG, 3x trucks) 250
no additional panzerfaust present 0

Weapons Platoons:
1 Machine Gun section and Mortar section (Cmd Smg, 2x HMG, Observer, 2x GW34 mortar, Kfz 15 car, 4x Kfz 70 truck) 160

Cmd Smg, 2x 7.5cm Pak40 gun, kubelwagen, 2x truck 135

Divisional Support Platoons:

3 Panther D 600

4 Artillery Sections (Cmd Smg, Staff, 2x observer, 4x 10.5cm IeFH18, kfz 15 car, kubelwagen, 5x truck) 255

Total of 1725 points, any ideas how to use 25 points? I can't take more fausts into pzgren platoons because I have panthers. Taking 3rd ATG would require 25 more points... I could drop fausts from HQ teams for 20 points but from where those last 5 points? (1 ATG gun is better than 2 fausts I think because you can kill armor from a far...) Taking mortars in Heavy Platoon makes more sense than taking them in their own platoon... costs less points with the same effect, and those mortars can still pin or smoke enemy before I make my assault so I'd love to have them.

Any ideas?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And about taking ATG with nebbies or panzerwerfers... YES I'D TAKE IT! It could cover my ass in some corner and support my infantry against those dreaded ¤%&/() tanks! And also give some cover while my nebbies or pzwerfers work their magic.

Comintern wrote:The amount of attention the Tiger gets is what puts it over the top when deciding between Tigers & Panthers. Its a difference between "What am I going to do about this Tiger" as opposed to the "Ill get to you when Im ready Panthers"

This is a problem many players have. They focus so much on the "scary Tiger" that while the tiger actually has little direct impact on the damage done to their forces, they lose because the opponent is walking all over their army while they worry about the tiger.

I like to play it the opposite way. I talk a lot about the scary tiger, but meanwhile I am focusing my efforts on wiping out the rest of their force. By the time they realize the tiger needs to move in to be able to take an objective with what they have left on the table, there is not enough time for the tiger to get into the action. Had a great laugh in one game where my opponent hit this point and then double-timed his tiger over the open ground on the table, pretty much giving all of my ATGs and 6pdr armed Crusader IIIs to fire at it with double rate of fire to the sides. Needless to say that tiger went boom...

Isolating the limiting the impact the big boy has on the fight, while crusihing the rest of an opponent's army works whether the "big boy" is a single tiger/king tiger or a platoon of T-34s in EW that you have nothing powerful enough to destroy on the table. Wiping out everything else and forcing a break test on the opponent wins the game just fine.

Skriker

Halkomahooli I would tke PNZ faust over AT guns for two reasons. They're mobile and they are at 5 or 6 in assault vs armor. I run Panzer Pioneers and have had great sucess with these guys. They have to be attached to a HQ or CiC so I put em with CiC and let them do their thing. Sometimes I leave em unattached and put them in cover. Opponents seem to overlook then because unattached they just sit there. So they will drive armor right past them and in range. Usually for a side shot. Another way I find to spend a few extra points are 10/5 AAA guns.

I have found that to answer my debate of Panther - Tiger, think of a panther as a super StuG. it has good frontal armor, terrible side. So if your tank is going to be advancing, the tiger is better. If you are going to hang back, the Panther is better. However, a Tiger can hang back in a pinch (depending on Tiger Ace also) where-as the Panther is stuck in one role.

That usually decides the matter for me, which is why I have Tigers and not Panthers atm!

Matt Varnish wrote:think of a panther as a super StuG.

And people wonder why I worry about FOW...

Panthers are great just really expensive, some lists get them cheaper. I would love to field cheap Panthers, but Tiger unfortunately tends to win out on utility and points.

reinforcing Big P's point, you cannot call a Panther a Super Stug.... It has a turret for god's sake nevermind the rest of the comparison!

I meant in general, the panther's role, given its incredibly terrible (for the points) side armor, is the same as the StuG, that of long range AT. I wasn't saying it was literally a super stuG......

Anyhoo, carry on.

But the real Panther had thin side armour... But it carried the high velocity 75mm L75! Actully late war Panthers also suffered from low-grade steel and excessive spalling, but thats another story. A Panther is easily penetrated in the side by most things, especially bazooka rounds.




Its called historical wargaming cos the stuff in it is historical.

Big P wrote:But it carried the high velocity 75mm L75!

Think that was the L/70 gun but yeah.....nasty gun indeed!

Thats the one! I pleade tiredness on that one, been in hospital all day while mu baby son had an operation!

Stayed in service with the French for a long time.

Indeed. The post war French copy of the L/70 was put to very good use by the Israeli forces.

And Indian Army Shermans were also rearmed with it for the 1965 war...

Long time no see... Here's a little battlereport me and my friend played (report made by my friend).

http://fowhalko.blogspot.fi/

No comments about the battle report? oh well i hope you guys could comment about my King Tiger then

Sorry about the blurrs, new camera and all :|

Nice paint job!

Started a little blog for my Project Jagdpanther. Goal is to add some heavy tank destroyers for my German force with the same kind of camouflage as seen on my King Tiger but I'm also going to try to do some as realistic as possible foliage camouflage too.

http://fowhalko.blogspot.fi/

Blog updated, painting started! Now Jagdpanther in camouflage mode...

Blog updated, painting finished. Now on to the foliage camouflage which I'm still unsure how to make so all ideas and tutorials are welcomed.

http://fowhalko.blogspot.fi/

A week ago we had a little war with my friend. Finnish Jägercompany tried to defend their homeland against a German offensive. I used a Stug batterie from GW. I think you could call it Lapland War (Lapin Sota) where Germans made a small counter-offensive or a Training War at the time of Continuation War.

http://fowhalko.blogspot.fi/2012/10/battlereport-1750pts-finnish.html

Hi there all.

In january I'm going to attend in a tournament which is going to be Late War, Eastern Front (Red Bear and Grey Wolf books mainly) and 1780 points per army. We're also trying to blay red vs blue matches.

Currently I'm thinking of fielding a German Sturmkompanie as it can take a lot of usefull options for both attack and defence. Although this could be an assaulting force I'm going to build it for a solid defence as I'm counting on the others to bring a lot of tank companies.

This list has maximised close defence for anti-tank but I also have some guns to take out enemy from afar. Also I have not forgotten the Russian air superiority so I'm taking some anti-air defence in a form of 2 8.8 FlaK36 guns.

But on with the list:

SturmKompanie HQ - 1x CinC SMG, 1x 2iC SMG (45 pts)
- Command Upgrade - 1x Upgrade CinC SMG to CinC SMG Panzerfaust (10 pts)
- Command Upgrade - 1x Upgrade 2iC SMG to 2iC SMG Panzerfaust (10 pts)
- Panzerschreck - 2x Panzerschreck (50 pts)
- Feldwebel Dietrich Uthoff - Feldwebel Dietrich Uthoff (50 pts)

Combat Platoons
Compulsory Sturm Platoon - 1x Command MG, 6x MG (180 pts)
- Command Upgrade - Upgrade Command SMG, 6x MG with Panzerfaust (70 pts)

Compulsory Sturm Platoon - 1x Command MG, 6x MG (180 pts)
- Command Upgrade - Upgrade Command SMG, 6x MG with Panzerfaust (70 pts)

Sturm Platoon - 1x Command MG, 6x MG (180 pts)
- Command Upgrade - Upgrade Command SMG, 6x MG with Panzerfaust (70 pts)

Weapons Platoons
Sturm Machine-gun Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 4x HMG (135 pts)

Sturm Machine-gun Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 2x HMG (70 pts)

Sturm Mortar Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 2x Observer Rifle, 4x 8cm GW34 Mortar (125 pts)

Sturm Heavy Anti-tank Gun Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 2x 7.5cm PaK40 (105 pts)

Divisional Support
Sturm Heavy Anti-tank Gun Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 2x 7.5cm PaK40 (105 pts)

Rocket Launcher Battery - 1x Command SMG, 1x Observer Rifle, 1x Kubelwagen, 3x 15cm NW41 rocket launcher (105 pts)

Heavy Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 1x Kfz 15 Field Car, 2x 8.8cm FlaK 36 with extra crew, 2x Sd Kfz 7 (8t) half-track, extra crew (185 pts)


1745 Points, 10 Platoons

So I still have a few points to spare and I'm asking if you guys have any ideas? And sorry no more panzerschreck as I'm out of models Anyways what ever the scenario is going to be, I'm thinking of attaching all HMGs into the Sturm platoons to add up infantry-defence firepower. The rest is still a bit of a mystery to me.

Incoming tournament in Finland, which I'm going to attend next sunday.

Found a brand new and fitting list from Bridge by Bridge:
559. Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilung

Führer has given his orders, fight to the last man and bullet!

Sieg Heil!

More info @ http://fowhalko.blogspot.fi/2013/02/halkomahooli-goes-to-operation.html

Hi. I'll be reading your battle report later on but for now here's my humble suggestions for changes to your Sturmkompanie.

My first idea is that this list needs tanks. Whilst few if any enemy tanks will assault your Panzergrens when they are dug in at an objective, you may still find the defenders bombed out by artillery, and, if overrun by tanks, will become untenable for counter-attacks by infantry, even if they do have panzerfausts. Getting past defensive fire from 5 or 6 t-34s is no mean trick.

I appreciate there will be AT guns knocking about to cover objectives but as they are generally an easier target than infantry, it bears considering that they will die at some point to a determined enemy.

This is why I like using tanks when defending. Kept in reserve or out of sight, 4 stugs or PZIV's can often decisively claw back an objective with a well-timed move-shoot-stormtrooper move.

Also I would consolidate the pak40's into one platoon of 3. You get less guns but they make for a more dangerous ambush prospect for the enemy.

Are you intending on using the flak36's mainly for AA? Assumedly they would take shots of opportunity at tanks also, but dedicated light AA might be the better, cheaper option, freeing points for other gubbinz.

As an addendum, here is a possible alternate list with some of the changes mentioned above. Also I left out the mortars and added another gun to the nebelwerfers, as a way to cut down on less mobile units in case there is a difficult choice during reserves deployment.

SturmKompanie HQ - 1x CinC SMG, 1x 2iC SMG (45 pts)
- Command Upgrade - 1x Upgrade CinC SMG to CinC SMG Panzerfaust (10 pts)
- Command Upgrade - 1x Upgrade 2iC SMG to 2iC SMG Panzerfaust (10 pts)
- Panzerschreck - 2x Panzerschreck (50 pts)
(Total- 115 pts)

Combat Platoons
Compulsory Sturm Platoon - 1x Command MG, 6x MG (180 pts)
- Command Upgrade - Upgrade Command SMG, 6x MG with Panzerfaust (70 pts)

Compulsory Sturm Platoon - 1x Command MG, 6x MG (180 pts)
- Command Upgrade - Upgrade Command SMG, 6x MG with Panzerfaust (70 pts)

Sturm Platoon - 1x Command MG, 6x MG (180 pts)
-Command smg/panzerfaust (no squad mg/pz)
(Total- 690 pts)


Weapons Platoons
Sturm Machine-gun Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 4x HMG (135 pts)

Sturm Heavy Anti-tank Gun Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 3x 7.5cm PaK40 (155 pts)
(Total- 290 pts)

Divisional Support

Stug Platoon - 3x StuG G (285pts)
-With Assault Rifle Tank Escorts (45pts)

Rocket Launcher Battery - 1x Command SMG, 2x Observer Rifle, 2x Kubelwagen, 4x 15cm NW41 rocket launcher (145 pts)

Heavy Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 1x Kfz 15 Field Car, 2x 8.8cm FlaK 36 with extra crew, 2x Sd Kfz 7 (8t) half-track, extra crew (185 pts)
(Total- 660 pts)

1755 on the nose... if my math is off, let me know.

This is probably all total guff, but whatev's.

Tried the sc.panzerjager kompanie tonight myself!

Hq 2 StuG's
4 StuG's
3 Jagdpanthers
2 whirblwind
Mortars
Grenadiers
Security platoon

Beat my friends FJ 5-2, in cauldron.

Tricky to use, as few platoons (and one is rubbish!)

Fun though

 Exhumed wrote:
My first idea is that this list needs tanks. Whilst few if any enemy tanks will assault your Panzergrens when they are dug in at an objective, you may still find the defenders bombed out by artillery, and, if overrun by tanks, will become untenable for counter-attacks by infantry, even if they do have panzerfausts. Getting past defensive fire from 5 or 6 t-34s is no mean trick.

I appreciate there will be AT guns knocking about to cover objectives but as they are generally an easier target than infantry, it bears considering that they will die at some point to a determined enemy.

This is why I like using tanks when defending. Kept in reserve or out of sight, 4 stugs or PZIV's can often decisively claw back an objective with a well-timed move-shoot-stormtrooper move.

As someone who plays British airborne for late war, I would like to add a counter point to this. Yes it is nice to have an armored reserve if you can swing it, but I have found adding armor to my dug in infantry and guns, more than anything else gives my opponent a weak link to exploit to get victory points from the battle. It is more obvious when your infantry are fearless vets, because they are REALLY hard to shake out of dug in positions in cover. With a standard confident vet force the difference in targeting may not be as significant as when using fearless vets, but be sure to not include armor that is trained or heaven forbid conscript rated, because they will die horribly and have little impact.

Just a different take on the matter.

Skriker

Being another Brit para player, there are lots of times I'd love some mobile AT in reserve, just to make your opponent think about flank shots etc, and against Brit paras those who hesitate suffer an all guns repeat...

 Skriker wrote:

 Exhumed wrote:
My first idea is that this list needs tanks. Whilst few if any enemy tanks will assault your Panzergrens when they are dug in at an objective, you may still find the defenders bombed out by artillery, and, if overrun by tanks, will become untenable for counter-attacks by infantry, even if they do have panzerfausts. Getting past defensive fire from 5 or 6 t-34s is no mean trick.

I appreciate there will be AT guns knocking about to cover objectives but as they are generally an easier target than infantry, it bears considering that they will die at some point to a determined enemy.

This is why I like using tanks when defending. Kept in reserve or out of sight, 4 stugs or PZIV's can often decisively claw back an objective with a well-timed move-shoot-stormtrooper move.

As someone who plays British airborne for late war, I would like to add a counter point to this. Yes it is nice to have an armored reserve if you can swing it, but I have found adding armor to my dug in infantry and guns, more than anything else gives my opponent a weak link to exploit to get victory points from the battle. It is more obvious when your infantry are fearless vets, because they are REALLY hard to shake out of dug in positions in cover. With a standard confident vet force the difference in targeting may not be as significant as when using fearless vets, but be sure to not include armor that is trained or heaven forbid conscript rated, because they will die horribly and have little impact.

Just a different take on the matter.

Skriker

True that Striker! Infact I had a good time watching people to just throw stuff at me and getting frustrated as they did nothing (either FP failed or I succeeded in infantry saves). And keeping your AT guns silent ~20cm behind your infantry makes your enemy think twice on assaulting with tanks.

But also Reaver83 has a point. In some cases it could/would help to have a mobile reserve unit to be used to take back "lost" territory etc objective. And in any case, with any infantry army, I'd take Stugs over PzIVs for that +1 front armor, but only at a higer quantity than 3, more likely 5 but 4 is ok. I have noticed that it saves lives... a lot!

All in all it's a bit mix up situation, with my playing style it depends so much about the mission at hand. But at any case I wouldn't take fortifications, I rather take more troops as most of the time my troops are already dug-in.

Good points all above, however if the majority of missions use reserves you might find that several of your units which lack mobility, such as mortars, AT guns etc will be out of play til potentially turn 5 or later as they slowly edge onto the field.
I think balancing the number of slow and mobile units is important in infantry kompanies due to the likelihood that you will end up defending.

 Halkomahooli wrote:
All in all it's a bit mix up situation, with my playing style it depends so much about the mission at hand. But at any case I wouldn't take fortifications, I rather take more troops as most of the time my troops are already dug-in.

I will admit that my late war play style is very different from my other periods. In mid war I prefer hordes of armored cars in the desert and in early war I spam light tanks and scout carriers in a houshold cavalry force more often than not. So sitting in those dug in positions is EXTREMELY hard for me some games...that is until about 4 turns of my opponent failing to hurt anything and starting to freak out and then the amusement factor starts to kick in. I also tend to not really take specific fortifications since my paras already do a pretty good job dug on their own. Of course if I play a game that doesn't start with prepared positions, at least one of my units will spend the entire game trying and failing to dig in. Artillery with paras isn't all that great since you primarily work off of those light 75mm guns, but when you play out of Market Garden and can add medium artillery support, your opponent may laugh when the first barrage does nothing, but they will definitely stop laughing once the big boys open up on the repeat.

Skriker

Repeat bombardments from Brit arty is one of the main ways to knock inf off objectives and out of cover. Flamethrowers come a close second.