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Why did the Astronomicon disappear?

Magnus?

 Manchu wrote:
Why did the Astronomicon disappear?

Magnus?

If the message from Magnus made the Astronomicon disappear it would make sense that it was send after the betrayal (since it was still on before). It would also make more sense of all the "BL isn't canon" crap talk, since they would be moving more towards changing the Horus Heresy story instead of fleshing it out...

The Space Marines in the front row appear to be having mixed reactions to the celebration; what Legions are they? (I can't see very well on this computer.)

Previously the only time the Astronomican 'disappeared' was when the Emperor 'unhooked' from it during the Siege of Terra, signaling his intentions to teleport on to the Vengeful Spirit.

I think that won't be the case anymore though, as Malcador does the whole 'better to burn out' thing for him at some point?

What do you mean by "unhooked"?

 Manchu wrote:
Why did the Astronomicon disappear?

Magnus?

Alpha legion did it. That isnt so much unexpected conclusion since they start appearing everywhere.

 Manchu wrote:
What do you mean by "unhooked"?

The old Fluff had him leading the Choir a lot more towards the end, for some unexplained reason.

The newer HH fluff has put a reason for that forward - Magnus jacked it up with his Spell.

Actually, maybe that was in the old fluff too?

Didn't the warp storms blot out the Astronomicon as well?

 BrookM wrote:
Is this the Magnus cock-up we're talking about here?

I'm about halfway through Outcast Dead, what should I be watching for?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Did you ever wonder why the Imperium didn't just send some of those badass assassins to kill Horus? The answer is, relative to real life, because he didn't die that way. And did you ever wonder why Horus didn't just send his own ultra-badass assassin to kill the Emperor? Again, because the Emperor didn't die that way.

So Nemesis ends up being a book about things we know did not happen not happening. I think this is what is meant by padding.

That said, I enjoyed the book quite a bit.

That's pretty much my review of Nemesis, I just wish they didn't spend 300 of 400 pages getting to the point. The mission should have failed much sooner so I didn't feel like I wasting my time.

The mechanics of the Golden Throne /Webway and Magnus' specific impact are new HH stuff... In the old one he was just in gak for using sorcery again, and the emperor was inexplicably implied to be guiding the choir at all times while still obviously active in other spots. It never was much of a focus in the particulars...

 kronk wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
If this is just a hallucination story ...

If I read the whole thing and find out after 350 pages I just read a dream story, I think I'll have to back out of the rest of the HH series. Seriously.

Holodeck. Or Chaos illusion. That's my call.

 Malika2 wrote:

This is the beginning of the story of 'Imperium Secundus', as first mentioned in Rules of Engagement and then again at the end of Fear to Tread.

During the Age of Darkness, the Astronomican disappeared for a long time. Fearing that the Emperor was dead, Guilliman set up a new homeworld for mankind, centred at Ultramar. It was his belief that he could create a second human empire to challenge Horus's Imperium for dominance of the galaxy, and he was probably right - even after Calth and the other traitor attacks in the area, Ultramar was VERY strong and protected geographically (in a galactic sense).

But Guilliman was a pragmatist, and knew that he wasn't the man to lead the common people. He suspected that Sanguinius was always intended to be the Emperor's heir, and so set himself up as kingmaker and when Sanguinius arrived at Macragge he was offered the crown - he would be Emperor while Guilliman became something like his Warmaster.

But there is a reason that this entire section of Imperial history does not appear in the records... and what that reason is, has yet to be revealed...

Crazy. When exactly would Guilliman think The Emperor was dead and still be on Macragge to set up an Empire?

It's also weird to think of Sanguinius as Emperor of Ultramar.

Oh Magnus look what you've done.

This is why you can't have nice things! (Prospero)

 Manchu wrote:
It's also weird to think of Sanguinius as Emperor of Ultramar.

Well I think the idea was Emperor of The Imperium II. I guess Guilliman was a really big Sanguinius fan.

Which is strange, because in "Know No Fear." Gulliman ended up dismissing Sanguinius as a major leader because he was 'too ethereal' - whatever that was supposed to mean.

White scars and fists in the background?

Argh damn you BL, just bought BETRAYER! Huzzah!

It's probably the fists from the end of The Crimson Fist. They probably have a good idea that Terra hasn't fallen and are a bit miffed about the whole thing.

Where are these IF in that picture? The light-armored guys look like WS to me, standing next to some equally sulky dark-armored Marines.

 Manchu wrote:
Where are these IF in that picture? The light-armored guys look like WS to me, standing next to some equally sulky dark-armored Marines.

I think they are the guys stood to the right of the White Scars, At first I thought they were Sanguinary Guard but didn't they wear Jump packs? and IIRC IF had more of a golden armour Pre-Heresy? Could be wrong.

Our right, you mean? Those guys appear to be wearing black, gray, or green armor.

Iron Hands?

None of the DA, Sallies, IH, or RG would be totally pleased with what's going on in the foreground. The IF would just have refused to attend, IMO.

I dunno, any Sallies or IH might find it perfectly plausible that the Imperium has all but ended. The IH were specifically mentioned as working for Gulliman in The Primarches. So were the Sallies in Age of Darkness.

DA wouldn't be there, Johnson told him to go... away.

RG wouldn't be there either, I think they're actually working directly with Dorn by the end of Deliverance Lost, aren't they? So, wrong section of the galaxy.

A group of IF's did end up in ultramar though after going through their own hell.

The artist themselves may not have known who the marines were supposed to be there and just added it in for rule of cool.

This political conflict will probably be UM/BA/WS vs. rest. While I doubt the DA will ally closely with the IF, I can see them being outraged that the Lion wasn't chosen as Emperor. They threw a big enough fit over Jonson not being warmaster.

Dark Angels are elsewhere remember, they got a war to fight against the Night Lords and they are winning.

My guess from a few pages ago:

I see white armor with a yellowish tint (white scars under a setting sun?) next to two guys with folded arms in green armor (salamanders) next to alternating blue and red (Ultramarines and Blood Angels).

I don't see any imperial fists in that picture.

Imperial Fists are all, or well, most of them are, on Terra, being the Emperor's lapdogs and all that.

Or, his official in charge of the defense of Terra Legion!