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GW has no licensing fee, and yet I think GW players would find X-Wing pretty reasonable.

As we see ITT -- and it's not totally unheard of elsewhere -- even folks who play GW's games sometimes criticize X-Wing as too expensive.

I see a lot of board gamers say that, too.

It's a valid view, imo, but I think it's one that we've discussed the reasons for pretty thoroughly on the last page. Certainly, with the low number of models needed, even folks like me that are somewhat put off by the cost get sorely tempted, I'd wager . At least it's true in my case.

How many ships can be played with the basic X-wing set, not regarding the actual models? I am looking into trying the game at it's base cost first, and can proxy enough ships to double the amount that you get with a single core set (to see what a larger amount than just the core set will give for playability, without investing more then for the core set). Provided I add my own bases and flight stands, is that possible?

I think you can find everything you would need to play on-line in some printable format, including movement dial substitutes.

 Manchu wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
It's an expensive game per model.

 Azazelx wrote:

Apples and oranges. Watermelons, maybe. You're making a severely flawed argument.

You've answered your own point.

Not a point that needs "answering". Just acknowledgement, if anything - rather than blind defence, misdirection and strawmen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Expensive-per-model games are made more palatable by low-model count gamestyles. I would say that if you take away all the other material and assign a blind "10 dollar" price tag to an FFG X-wing, that is not that bad considering the other markets and in current prices. A single GW Eldar Warlock is $11.50US, and is only the slightest fraction of a playable force, even if using very small skirmish rules.

All good points. I don't think the $30 space marine characters are inexpensive by any stretch, either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
I know Hulk got jumped on a bit last page, but it's a sentiment a lot of people have (myself included). You're getting more than a miniature, but as far as what you're getting in miniatures-terms per box, it feels expensive.

For myself, I'm basically choosing between Infinity and X-wing, since a fair number of people at my local store have picked up each. But I'm leaning towards Infinity because they both fill the "skirmish game" role for me, but I get more in terms of models from Infinity- also with a rather low buy-in.

My point is, it doesn't have to be "either/or"... this game does indeed strike some people as expensive, and that's a valid view to have (even if you don't share it). Some people are going to value the miniature above additional gaming components in weighing what is a good value... and that's what I tend to do (although I'm thinking over it now, of course).

I haven't played Infinity beyond a single demo game that my wife also participated in, but the rules are quite detailed, dense and complex. I'd compare it almost to being a miniatures RPG. X-Wing is much lighter but still has a lot of depth. While I've been pointing out that X-Wing's product is expensive per model, I've bought 4 starter sets, 2 large ships and 5 single ship blisters so far, and probably another 7 and a Lambda when I get home tonight. Conversely, I've still only got the Pan-Oceanic starter set I was given as a gift for Infinity and haven't played it since. Oh, and my wife's played as many games of X-Wing as I have...

Also, lets say that because I played too much X-wing vs. Tie fighter when I was a kid, I want some Z-95 Headhunters. I can download all the cards, base inserts and dials I would need to make everything that would come with a Z-95 model from FFG. If I go to Shapeways for the models, I will pay about 10 dollars per ship for the material that will give detail closest to FFG ships. So before painting and adding some cost for the printed materials I would have to make, about the price of what FFG would charge.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
How many ships can be played with the basic X-wing set, not regarding the actual models? I am looking into trying the game at it's base cost first, and can proxy enough ships to double the amount that you get with a single core set (to see what a larger amount than just the core set will give for playability, without investing more then for the core set). Provided I add my own bases and flight stands, is that possible?

3. You'll need additional move dials for the other ships.

Not really. Though the mechanic works much better with the dials you could get a card of the maneuvers for each ship (there's some nice PDFs on BGG and elsewhere) and place some sort of marker on the maneuver you wish to do behind a screen. Then you reveal your screens together so nobody can move a marker. Same general effect and a good proxy method, but the dials are, to me, much more fun and a little easier to avoid an opponent "fudging" their move.

For someone who is still trying to decide if they want to get into the game though, I don't see why the above method wouldn't work for friendly games.

I figure the dials will be super easy to make more of as I have made very similar dials before. Photocopy the originals before you put them together, and print them on adhesive paper on Illustration board or heavy duty cardstock- a small rivet holds them together and lets them spin. Honestly, making the paper components for more ships is nearly as easy (and fun) for me as painting bare ships. One of my other hobbies for the past few years is print and play boardgames, where you make all the components yourself.

One of the first things I want to do for X wing is make one of the blockade runner "tokens", which are almost three pages long.

I figure I can photocopy all the relevant components from a single core set (at least for the first few games), and I already know I'd have to make movement dials, but it's just plain easier if there are enough of the other spare tokens for 2 x-wings vs. 4 tie fighters from the get go.

Edit: just found a photo of the base game, and I am happy to see that you can choose from 2 X-wings and 6 TIE's. So a quick pair of TIE dials and a single X-Wing one, and I'm golden. I think I'm gonna head out tomorrow night to nab a starter. I even hear Target has them for idiotically low prices if you get lucky. (people on BGG are posting pictures of clearance prices as low as 12.99 for the core set- at that rate I'd get two, obviously. )

 Azazelx wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
It's an expensive game per model.

 Azazelx wrote:

Apples and oranges. Watermelons, maybe. You're making a severely flawed argument.

You've answered your own point.

Not a point that needs "answering". Just acknowledgement, if anything - rather than blind defence, misdirection and strawmen.

Well it's expensive compared to what? You say 40k is not a good comparison. Fine. But neither is the WotC SW miniatures game. I would call it misdirection to say that the second comparison is any more valid than the first. What this comes down to is what each individual is willing to spend, so I'm not sure that calling the miniatures expensive is valid. Perhaps a better point would be "I can't afford them" or "I am not willing to spend money on them." Or even, as you originally pointed out, maybe you're not satisfied by the fact that it costs more in Australia than the US, For my part, when I think of the quality of the components, how easy it is to start gaming, the availability of opponents, and the depth of the rules, the MSRP doesn't add up to expensive for me -- and the internet retail prices certainly aren't.

I guess for some folks, 40k isn't "expensive" either. For me, 40k is definitely expensive. It costs more money and time to start playing. I would say that's a totally objective point and I haven't seen anyone convincingly contradict it. On the other hand, 40k is a totally different game/hobby.

I have a friend who has a very extensive X-Wing collection (far as I know, every ship released to date and an eye on the new Interceptor pack), and at a glance I find the game quite reasonably priced for what one gets.

The starter comes with 3 ships, dice and a bunch of cards for $35, and a pair of those provides 4 TIEs and 2 X-Wings, which can actually become a significantly high points game if you just want to load them down with the best pilots and gear available. Sure, if you want to have 2+ of everything and start eyeballing the Interceptors, Bombers, Advanced, B-Wings, A-Wings, Y-Wings, larger ships, suddenly you're paying hundreds of dollars, but this can be spread across multiple players. Not everyone needs to have a full collection of everything in order to have massive options for games to happen.

My crew just happens to have one massive Star Wars fanatic who decided he was going to grab everything on his own, but I can see how it can add up quickly, I just don't think it needs to. Acquired ship by ship over the months, a single new ship here and there adds a ton of new options (in terms of pilots and list versatility).

I completely agree that if one sees the hobby/modeling aspect as part of the draw that unless they want to repaint their ships it might hold minimal appeal, but as someone who just got into skirmish games last year, not feeling the need to assemble and paint up even a handful of fighters lowers the barrier to entry for me, and makes me feel a bit better that if I ever wanted to build my own little collection, dropping $50 on a starter and an expansion or two ($15 might be a good shorthand, but you can find a good number of ships on eBay for $12-14 each with free S&H, though some do seem to be pre-sales of restock orders.

I don't play 40k or any of those others games, but even at a glance, I think it's worth keeping in mind how much of a given force a single model can be. A single X-Wing with a high end pilot and decked with gear can represent a significant number of points. If one wanted to field a low end swarm list, sure, that's going to get pricey when you break a half dozen+ of a single figure (plus other options), but as noted above, starters alone are a pretty decent way to begin filling out ones 'workhorse' slots.

As someone who saw the original Star Wars in the theater when it came out the subject matter of the game definitely attracts me. As a parent, the ability to have my daughter enjoy the playing the game on our coffee table makes the price worth while. We have several games using the basic rules and the starter set under our belts and have been adding rules and other ships the last couple of games.

She wants to use the Milllenium Falcon in our next game.

Lord knows I've wasted more money on things I've enjoyed a lot less.

is it spendy? yes
can you play the game for less then $100? yes.
is it a good game? yes
can you find opponents? yes
do you have to paint it? no

all these things are why i have spent almost a grand on the game.

...Wow. Even at the nasty EU prices I don't think I've spent more than €200 on two good-sized forces. How you guys manage to (at, I'm assuming, US discount pricing) spend that much is just beyond me. I guess it's easy with the prepaints taking all of three minutes of punching out cardboard to have ready for a game but still... Whatever floats your boat, though.

 skkipper wrote:
all these things are why i have spent almost a grand on the game.

I just want to note that you are one of a not-insignifcant percentage of wargamers I know who have done this. Which is why, as a wargamer susceptible to such things, I'm just watching for now but thoroughly enjoying seeing how this is taking off!

 Bolognesus wrote:
How you guys manage to (at, I'm assuming, US discount pricing) spend that much is just beyond me.

At a glance; a couple of starters to get one started, then even just a trio of the expansions (presumably fewer for the larger figures unless playing some truly epic games), add taxes and possibly S&H, I could see easily getting upwards of 600-750 without even trying terribly hard. Buff up those expansion numbers to 4-6+ of each in case one wanted to fly some truly crazy lists and pre-orders for the larger ships, yeah, it could get up there.

But it's like a lot of things that can be as expensive as you're willing to make them be and have the funding (or credit limit) to back. Malifaux is touted as a cost effective skirmish game, but after buying a faction and a half, 4 books, mini rules books, a case, supplies, decks and more, I don't even want to think how much this "cost effective game" has cost me in the last year and a half.

Yeah, he can probably make any possible list:

4 X-Wings - $80 (1/2 of 4 Starters)
5 Y-Wings - $75
4 A-Wings - $60
4 B-Wings (not sure, could be 3) - $45-$60
3 Falcons - $90
8 Tie Fighters - $80 (1/2 of 4 Starters)
5 Tie Interceptors - $75
5 Tie Advanced - $75
5 Tie Bombers (Not sure if they are under 20pts or not)- $75
3 Fire Sprays - $90

So all totalled up not including all of wave 4 or wanting to play bigger games and you've got a total of $745 - $760. And if you wanna play bigger games then it it gets crazier.

Oh yes Malifaux is everything but cheap, that's something you generally discover quite quickly (and I've hardly even played yet, what with all the tumult around a new edition etc... ).

Okayyy, four of each will get you there. Fair 'nuff.
Can't really see the point though. You're not going to buy more than one each of the TF or XW boosters if you're already getting multiple starters, you're not going to get more than one TIE/A (seems to be the consensus?), getting more than two of the 'big' ships is nonsense... Oh well to each his own.

Yeah, it's not at all hard to get north of a five or six hundred if you collect both factions and factor in the cost of supplies like carrying cases and the like; don't ask how I know.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Yeah, he can probably make any possible list:

4 X-Wings - $80 (1/2 of 4 Starters)
5 Y-Wings - $75
4 A-Wings - $60
4 B-Wings (not sure, could be 3) - $45-$60
3 Falcons - $90
8 Tie Fighters - $80 (1/2 of 4 Starters)
5 Tie Interceptors - $75
5 Tie Advanced - $75
5 Tie Bombers (Not sure if they are under 20pts or not)- $75
3 Fire Sprays - $90

So all totalled up not including all of wave 4 or wanting to play bigger games and you've got a total of $745 - $760. And if you wanna play bigger games then it it gets crazier.

Though you would want to get the X-wing and TIE Fighter "expasion" for the cards that aren't in the starters like Wedge.

 Enigma Crisis wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Yeah, he can probably make any possible list:

4 X-Wings - $80 (1/2 of 4 Starters)
5 Y-Wings - $75
4 A-Wings - $60
4 B-Wings (not sure, could be 3) - $45-$60
3 Falcons - $90
8 Tie Fighters - $80 (1/2 of 4 Starters)
5 Tie Interceptors - $75
5 Tie Advanced - $75
5 Tie Bombers (Not sure if they are under 20pts or not)- $75
3 Fire Sprays - $90

So all totaled up not including all of wave 4 or wanting to play bigger games and you've got a total of $745 - $760. And if you wanna play bigger games then it it gets crazier.

Though you would want to get the X-wing and TIE Fighter "expansion" for the cards that aren't in the starters like Wedge.

That's quite a buy list, Hulk!
Mine is a bit more sedate:
3 X-Wings (2 starters and 1 booster) $55
1 Y-Wing $15
2 A-Wing $30
2 B-Wing $30
1 YT-1300 $30
4 HWK-290's $60

6 TIE (2 Starters and 2 boosters) $70
2 TIE/A $30
3 Tie/IN $45
2 Tie Bomber $30
2 Firesprays $60
1 Lambda $30

Total $485
That being said... It is a great game if you just get 2 starters and a expansion or two. I feel that the game shines with you have the challenge of moving ships with different profiles and the tactical flexibility of the same.

My god... I just totalled my gak.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
My god... I just totalled my gak.

I can only imagine. I was sad enough with my "in excess of KD:M pledge levels" amount.

I only imagined before too... unfortunately my imagination did not keep up with my spending... ridiculous...

 Hulksmash wrote:
Yeah, he can probably make any possible list:

4 X-Wings - $80 (1/2 of 4 Starters)
5 Y-Wings - $75
4 A-Wings - $60
4 B-Wings (not sure, could be 3) - $45-$60
3 Falcons - $90
8 Tie Fighters - $80 (1/2 of 4 Starters)
5 Tie Interceptors - $75
5 Tie Advanced - $75
5 Tie Bombers (Not sure if they are under 20pts or not)- $75
3 Fire Sprays - $90

So all totalled up not including all of wave 4 or wanting to play bigger games and you've got a total of $745 - $760. And if you wanna play bigger games then it it gets crazier.

yeah that is pretty close. When playing with friends the answer of can I try this in 100 points is almost always yes. so yeah not to a grand yet but it feels like it to my wife.

Tom, I feel your investment is well worth it because, as Hulk mentioned earlier, you've made a modelling project out of it, too. And your big corvette wasn't even expensive $$$-wise, and looks amazing with the paintjob.

So imo it was well spent, assuming it was going to wargaming anyway

Nope, I'm stupid lol -

6X x-wing (30 + 4 core*)
5X a-wing (75)
6X y-wing (90)
3X Falcon (90)
2X HWK (30)
4X Bwing (60)
1X Corellian Corvette ($80 + 20 acrylic base + 8 printing)
483.00 Rebel

10X Tie (30 + 4 core*)
6X Interceptor (90)
4X Advanced (60)
4X Bomber (60)
3X Firespray (90)
2X Shuttle (60)
390.00 Imperial

4 cores – 140

Acrylic Movement Templates, 2 sets – 60bucks
Corsec templates, various – 50 bucks
Acrylic Tokens – 230 bucks
Hammer and Forge asteroids – 2 sets 50 bucks
Battlefoam – 120 bucks
Extra cards and game night kits – 80 bucks
Giant 9foot by 4 foot custom playing matte – 130 bucks
Cardsleeves and other accessories – 40 bucks
Alternate a-wings – 30 bucks
790.00

Shipping and paying extra on ebay for some of this stuff during drought times –
300 bucks.

Total damage – $2103.00
+ ~100-120 hours spent repainting and/or working on things like the Corvette or Mattes.

feth I’m an idiot.

What has this taught me?
All I really needed to buy was –

2 cores 70

1X xwing 15
2X awing 30
2X Ywing 30
1X Bwing 15
1X Falcon 30
1X Hawk 15
135 rebel

2X ties 30
2X interceptor 30
2X bomber 30
1X advance 15
1X Firespray 30
1X Shuttle 30
165 imperial

1X toolbox with trays 30

If you play your cards right, ordering all at once or only a few times, then your shipping should be between 5 and 50 bucks…

Total – 400.00 on the nose. (450 if shipping required)
+ 2 hours unpackaging and popping tokens.


So… turns out I am $1703.00 of stupid, with the added intangible of 100-120 hours of time lost.

YIKES!

Going piecemeal over a few months and you lose track...

The important thing though, is that list of max you could possibly really need... you could add two more ties and a firespray and a falcon if you really wanted to, but for the rest, I think it will cover 95% of all lists you could ever want to try....

i don't really think you should consider the painting time to be lost hours, MajorTom, since you made the ships look much better than they do out of the box...
you did drop a stupid amount of cash on some silly plastic space ships, though...
idiot...
just kidding, bro...
pewpew

cheers
jah

Mine pales in comparison to even my buy list...
2 cores
2 ties
1 X-Wing
2 Tie/A (1 more as a gift)
3 Y-Wings
1 A-Wing

Battlefoam
A couple of card holders
I'm sub $300... but boy the new Tie/IN's are looking good, and then there will be the space tiles released... I need those too. Oh, and I want to run a swarmy Reb list, so I'll need a few HWK's. THen again, I haven't picked up a falcon... how can I call my self a fan if I don't have a falcon sitting on my shelf. though, that B-Wing looks awesome and is one of my favorite ships. I need a few more "Push The Limit" if I want to play competitively with the Tie/IN... so I'll need a few more A-Wings. Then there is the double Firespray list I want to try out. My buddy has that Lego Corvette he keeps threatening me with... I really should have something that can match that. (acquisition disorder confirmed...)