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What about the Devastator squad? Using 4 ML is put down every thing in the sky and using 4 HB is moving with 12 snap shot...

what do you mean ml taking out everything in the sky?
they dont have skyfire or flakk missles, so HBs with their high amount of fire are better to take out fliers.
Also, just so you know that would be two different squads.
Best anti flier defence would be an ageis line with quad cannon
4 twinlinked skyfire shots,
doesmt get sweeter than that

The av11 chibi talon is petty survivable in 6th, if marine players are worried about aircraft it seems like the chibi talon is to go to unit for air defense.

Drop podding stern guard with combi weapons also sound scary in 6th.

With the changes, I probably won't be playing my sm army until their new codec comes out. Well, not much, anway. My necrons got buffed significantly, so those will see some more playtime.

I'm wondering how the stormtalon fares, and whether fielding one is a good idea.

The Stormtalon is showing to be really mean in my playtesting. You can zoom it 18" on the first few turns to take out the things that can shoot it down, then switch over to Hover mode when you're ready for it to switch to more fire support. The fact that is has 2 hull points means it will die very fast when it's hit as it's not hard to glance AV11.

I'm strongly looking at a unit of Sternguard, all with Combi-Flamers for a scary "Don't you dare charge me" unit.

The Stormtalon is a really nice unit for its cost, although it makes Vendettas look rediclously undercosted.

Unless you are feeling gutsy, don't hover it. It dies when it takes hits. So unless you have some nice rear shots and don't care if it survives for much longer then just keep on zooming.

The Typhoon missile launcher seems like the best upgrade for it.


Seeing as how the Stormraven is in the SM section of the appendix I can safely assume that its going to be in the next codex. Buy one! They are just awsome with Hurricane Bolters. Move 18" and fire all its main weapons and a missile.

AresX8 wrote:I watched a friend play a game today at a pretty low points value (750), but he fielded a Stormtalon with Typhoon Missile Launcher and of course the TL Assault Cannon. Zooming the Stormtalon the first few turns allowed it to really tear apart anything that could take down the Stormtalon. Once it does so, it can switch to Hover mode and provide fire support.

So it sounds like ill be taking them.

Anyone tested Tac Termies yet? On paper they seem to be more viable than before, however AP2 guns are more common than AP2 combat weapons, so I'm a little hesitant to build a list around them and their low speed.

Grey Templar wrote:

Armadeus wrote:Does the space marine missile launcher have an anti-aircraft option now? The FAQ doesn't say anything about an anti-aircraft missile, but the BRB says that missiles can shoot a str 7 ap 4 AA missile.

The Missile launcher weapon entry says "[b]some missile launchers have the option to upgrade to Flakk missiles"[/b]

Strange is, that only ML has in weapon appendix 3rd type of ammunition(flakk), so this upgrade option is only for them? If yes, why types that "some" MLs have it, no other ML have this option in weapon profile in BRB. FAQ say nothing.

Grey Templar wrote:Its not a standard armament for Missile launchers. You need to buy the upgrade.

And yes, there is no upgrade listed for anyone anywhere at the moment.

AresX8 wrote:Anyone tested Tac Termies yet? On paper they seem to be more viable than before, however AP2 guns are more common than AP2 combat weapons, so I'm a little hesitant to build a list around them and their low speed.

You would probably just have to keep them away from the guns that would penetrate their armor. You still get the 5 invulnerable save though, while it wont save everybody, it will save 1-2 guys out of a squad of 5.
But once again this is all theory, i havent actually played the new edition yet, as i am poor and cant get the rule book for a while.

Has anyone experimented with new speeder load outs? With the changes to vehicle firing rules for fast skimmers, it looks like you can do a full move and fire both guns. This could make double weapon builds more viable.

Also, has anyone heard if the typhoon can take skyfire missiles? That would be awesome.

Tiger9gamer wrote:Also, has anyone heard if the typhoon can take skyfire missiles? That would be awesome.

Does it say in the codex they can take skyfire missiles?

Basically, the book says some missile launchers have the option to upgrade to take the missiles. As of right now, current codexes do not have this option listed anywhere, so currently nobody can take them. I'd imagine as soon as a new codex that has missile launchers comes out, you'll see the option for the AA missiles.

TL;DR - No they cannot.

Also, Typhoon Missile Launchers are not Missile Launchers. They are completely seperate weapons(that just happen to have nearly identical statlines)

Its the same reason that Sternguard can't shoot their special ammo from a Stormbolter. Stormbolters arn't Boltguns.

Hi,

still try to find way to use 3rd skyfire ammo for MLs , and im not very good in english, so please how can i understand this " ...You will also find that some of the weapons in this codex are written out longhand, rather than using the weapon profile format in the Warhammer 40000 rulebook. Dont worry - these re functionally identical, unless noted otherwise in this document".... Its in FAQ for SM in an Amendments paragraf.

Grey Templar wrote:
Seeing as how the Stormraven is in the SM section of the appendix I can safely assume that its going to be in the next codex. Buy one! They are just awsome with Hurricane Bolters. Move 18" and fire all its main weapons and a missile.

I thought the same thing but if you look, black Templars, dark angels and space wolves do not have a vehicles section in the appendix. The SM vehicles section is just so you would not have 3-4 lists of the same SM vehicles over and over again.

AresX8 wrote:Anyone tested Tac Termies yet? On paper they seem to be more viable than before, however AP2 guns are more common than AP2 combat weapons, so I'm a little hesitant to build a list around them and their low speed.

Used them in a squad of 10, 2 chain fists and 2 ACs with marneus calgar and lysander attached as a ridiculous 935 pt death star in a 3k game. It went up against a 10 man paladin deathstar + draigo and murdered them all despite taking considerable casualties from exorcist missiles before getting into combat.

Just foot slog them right up the middle, lysander can eat a fair amout of AP2 fire with his 3++ and eternal warrior which will leave much of the rest of your army unmolested that or your oponent will have a real headache turn ~3 when a large blob of termies arive on his doorstep.

So I finally got some 2k point games in. I got a lot of feedback regarding our most common units:

- Termie Libbys are the de-facto standard Libby now. It gives him much needed survivability as a whole, rather than cowering in a transport like he usually does while in PA. Psychic Shriek is awesome if you roll high enough to get wounds on the target. I kept rolling low on the leadership portion, but I can see how this power can destroy MEQs.

- TH/SS Termies are still the combat unit of eating your cake and your opponent's. A unit of 5 walked through 3 units of 10 PA Wolf Guard that were softened up before the game ended, and still had 2 models left.

- Godhammer Land Raiders are still good. I've been saying in 5th that Godhammers support our shooty nature far better than the others, but no one listened. Now, this thing can go nuts snap firing since all of our weapons are TL (except the MM of course).

- Sternguard aren't as great as I hoped. Yes, Hellfire rounds are awesome considering how many wounds they dish out, but when you look at how much they cost at a maxed out unit with combi weapons, I'd rather take Tac Termies. I dropped my unit of 8 Sternguard and I'm now adding 5 Tac Termies with a CML. Yes, Tac Termies don't have much in terms of firepower (Nothing wrong with Storm Bolters IMO), but they add a much needed second counter-assault unit. TH/SS Termies can't be everywhere unfortunately .

- Meltas on Tacs aren't worth it anymore when you look at the power of MM Attack Bikes. Tacs are too slow. These guys are absolutely awesome! For 100 points, you can take 2 of these bad boys and they won't let you down.Now with Hammer of Wrath, Jink, and true T5 they're tons better. These guys performed admirably for me.

- Tacs need Plasma. The rapid fire changes help the weapon out tremendously as it can now contribute earlier and as a result, justify its point cost.

- Dakka Preds. They're cheap for a reason: They suck! Yes, Heavy Bolters can glance AV11, but I'd much rather have the extra power with Lascannons because vehicles are still going to see heavy use. The fear of vehicle being more fragile because of Hull Points is not being completely represented. Transports as gun platforms are gone considering how easy they are to glance, but gunboats that are AV12+ are very much in since they can keep firing until they're completely gone. We need that alpha strike on those gunboats, so Lascannons suit the role much better. EDIT: Yes, I'm fully aware that Dakka Preds are meant to be anti-horde; my area is heavy MEQ however.

- Stormtalon. This thing hasn't been destroyed at all in all the games I've played (almost 10, however only 2 so far have been at 2k). Because of the fact that it needs 6s to be hit means that it will absorb a lot of firepower from MEQ armies. Against Orks will be a completely different story.

I just recently played a game in which I had a scout heavy, outflanking LSS force and the new reserves rules really helped out.
I believe they can be helpful for anyone who is looking to make a more reserve heavy list. I.E. Drop podding, Kahn etc.

Ares: interesting summary.

Meltas on Tacs aren't worth it anymore when you look at the power of MM Attack Bikes. Tacs are too slow. These guys are absolutely awesome! For 100 points, you can take 2 of these bad boys and they won't let you down.Now with Hammer of Wrath, Jink, and true T5 they're tons better. These guys performed admirably for me.

Taking Tacs with flamers or plasmas, and to use MM Attack Bikes for anti-tank makes sense.

I guess your Assault Termies are transported by a Storm Raven. As the SR is to be kept in reserve and it needs to be in hover mode to unload the transported squad, the Termies hit the table in round 3, not earlier.

Anyone think about taking Flamers and Plasma Cannons on Tacs? Tac Plasma Cannons are the cheapest source of them in our book, and it synergizes with our Bolters. And now that blasts do full damage, we can use them as anti transport whenever it's needed. Cover being reduced means that we'll kill more models as well.

This is the loadout I'm considering for my Tac Squads:

Full size, Flamer and Plasma Cannon; Sarge has a Bolt Pistol and Power Sword. Squad has a Rhino - 225 points

AresX8 wrote:Anyone think about taking Flamers and Plasma Cannons on Tacs? Tac Plasma Cannons are the cheapest source of them in our book, and it synergizes with our Bolters. And now that blasts do full damage, we can use them as anti transport whenever it's needed. Cover being reduced means that we'll kill more models as well.

This is the loadout I'm considering for my Tac Squads:

Full size, Flamer and Plasma Cannon; Sarge has a Bolt Pistol and Power Sword. Squad has a Rhino - 225 points

My 3rd tac squad is general plasma gun/ plasma cannon. Plasma cannons are more of a static weapon, as you can't snap fire blasts. I sit them in whatever cover I can find, or just make sure they have a good field of fire, and blast away. I don't see much synergy with pairing the PC with a flamer.

Has anyone tried Predator Annihilators? In 5th, no one, in my area at least, used them because one roll of a 3 killed that 45 point gun, but in 6th, with the randomized weapon destroyed, and lascannons getting a buff, I'm thinking it might be worth it.

I find myself taking Autolas Preds over Annihilators since 45 points is way too much for a single shot, even if it's TL.

I've been using the Plasma Cannons in all of my games so far, and I love them. I'm keeping them, they do so much damage for only 5 points. When you relegate AT duties to other slots in your list, the Tacs will love the transports being opened up to fry the contents.

Nevelon: The Flamer is there since it's free, it adds charging deterrence and it lets the squad able to truly handle all kinds of infantry. Plasma Cannons kill all infantry equally and Flamers help against hordes. Depending on the target, if you're in Flamer range, I suggest you fire your Pistols in and assault that unit, but don't send one Tac Squad alone without either fire support from other units, another Tac Squad, or assault backup. Both special weapons are supplemented by the squad's Bolters, which due to the configuration are never wasted, and the Sarge has a Power Sword for challenges as well as extra infantry smashing.

Anyone that already wants to charge a tactical squad isn't going to be deterred by a flamer.

Plasma Cannons are pretty golden, One shot from it will make back your points on the cannon + your other weapon in the squad.

I use Plasma Cannons + Plasma Guns, and one of them has a melta gun (I needed to drop 5pts).

I run all of my sergeants bare. There's no need for them, since, gunline lists are my preference. They are there to challenge big things to tarpit for another turn if needed.

Snipers are still meh. The ability to pick one model out of a unit isn't that amazing, sadly. Sure, it's great if you hit the ticket on a marine squad, or get a few on a nob, but 1/6 chance, on 9 shots, means you'll get 1.5 precision shots.

50% chance to wound, and that's including the 16~% chance to rend.

On paper, they look decent. But, generally, in 40k, even if you do hit the ticket, they are usually in cover. If they aren't in cover, you are hitting them with other things.

Missiles are still great. Plasma is even better than it ever was.

Vindicators, if you get a good shot off, can take out multiple vehicles. However, that means that they are a higher priority target.

The Flyer, as always, is good. Just don't bank on it long term, as when more codexs come out, so will more ways to counter flyers, I'm sure.

 AresX8 wrote:
I find myself taking Autolas Preds over Annihilators since 45 points is way too much for a single shot, even if it's TL.

Annihilators are worth those points, with sponson HBs firing regular, one could have a tank move CS to get away from say melta units, then pummel them with the HBs(with 3 shots each), or maybe for good measure use a lascannon(TL, S9, AP2) to take out a hard IC or MC, and leave the HBs(with 3 shots each) to take pot shots at it.

Cheaper than a whole Annihilator(+ sponson las) for the same purpose.