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So, now that my Maelstrom order has finally arrived I have about 450pts worth of stuff but am struggling to work out the most efficient list and am hoping some wiser heads can help me narrow it down

My regular opponent (who I'm playing in two days) has quite an extensive range of stuff and plays Pan-O, Military Orders and Aleph but rarely leaves home without at least one (usually TO-camouflaged) sniper so any help against those armies would be really helpful.

What I've got to work with is:

Moderator with Combi-Rifle x4 (I usually take one as a Lt and one as a Paramedic)
Moderator with Spitfire
Moderator with Combi-Rifle/Marker
Zero with Deployable Repeaters/Combi-Rifle/E-Mauler
Zero Hacker
Reverand Moira with Multi-Rifle/AP CCW
Reverand Custodier with Marker
Sin-Eater Observant with HMG
Sin-Eater Observant with Mk12
Daktari
Clockmaker

Zondbot x2
Reaktion Zond with HMG
Vertigo Zond with Guided-ML

Lizard TAG with Multi-HMG

Any thoughts? Are there any must-take units or ones to avoid?

Thanks in advance, C_C

First you should look into Flame Thrower units as Bukunin it will help a lot with camo, list incoming...

REMs list

-Reverend Custodier Lt (38/.5), sit prone the whole game in hard to reach stop, guard well will be a target.
-Sin-Eater MK12 (29), setup to watch over Lt and Vertigo with his back to wall.
-Reaktion Zond (28/1), Watching the paths to you Lt or Vertigo, remember you can deploy them on walls if you get a better spot that way.
-Vertigo Zond (34/1), place in well defended and difficult to reach spot, guard well it will be a target.
-Lizard Flamer (88/2), this is you heavy hitter, and the flamer will burn off the enemy camo/ODD, also great way to keep your enemy busy while your Vertigo lays down the law.
-Zero E/Mauler (24/.5), more repeaters, and the E/Mauler keeps going off all game, watch as all his weapon/equipment stops working, then shoot him with out being shot back.
-Clockmaker (18), for fixing you TAG and Vertigo.
Zondbot (3), so your Clockmaker can be 2 places at once.
-Moderator Combi (9), order monkey.
-Moderator Marker (11/.5), the more repeater the better, right?
-Moderator Spitfire (16/.5), a little more fire power, B5 if you link the 3 Moderators.

298pts 6SWC.

I would also recommend picking up a Prowler with Combi/ADHL/LFlamethrower, perhaps even the Spitfire one too, but mostly the flame thrower is useful for dealing with Camo.

But...based on what you have currently I came up with this.
The extra Sineater is alone in group 2 but with the weapon range he shouldn't need to move if you have a good deployment. The other Sineater is left in the first group as with the MK12 he might have to move, but can give his order to others that will need it. Finally you have a nice linked team, why do sectorial and skip out on links.

The +3 BS will greatly help your Moderator with Marker.

BAKUNIN JURISD. COMMAND
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 (Regs: 10/Irrs: 0):

REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Marker / Pistol, Knife (38 | 0.5)
3x MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse (9)
MODERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse (16 | 0.5)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle + Marker / Pistol, Electric Pulse (11 | 0.5)
LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / (88 | 2)
LIZARD PILOT Pistol, Knife
ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (19 | 0.5)
REVEREND MOIRA MULTI Rifle / Pistol, Shock CCW (38)
SIN-EATER Mk12 / Pistol, CCW (29)

GROUP 2 (Regs: 1/Irrs: 0):

SIN-EATER HMG / Pistol, CCW (34 | 2)

300 Points | SWC: 6

ARMY CODE: eNozMFY1VjNWM6wxVDPAIA3BpAmQNAOzzdWAdI0RWNZEzQhMGqgZAQACmQ8R Army Infinity v.3.0.





However, if you don't mind a little proxying, I would recommend this instead...
BAKUNIN JURISD. COMMAND
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 (Regs: 10/Irrs: 0):

REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Marker / Pistol, Knife (38 | 0.5)
3x MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse (9)
MODERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse (16 | 0.5)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle + Marker / Pistol, Electric Pulse (11 | 0.5)
LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / (88 | 2)
LIZARD PILOT Pistol, Knife
PROWLER Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, CCW (32 | 0.5)
ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (19 | 0.5)
SIN-EATER Mk12 / Pistol, CCW (29)

GROUP 2 (Regs: 1/Irrs: 0):

SIN-EATER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW (39 | 1.5)

299 Points | SWC: 6

ARMY CODE: eNozMFY1VjNWM6wxVDPAIA3BpAmQNAOzTcHi5mpAXo2JmhGYNFQzAgACnw8V Army Infinity v.3.0.

Hmm, thanks for the feedback,

How does this look?

Reverand Custodier Lt with Marker (38/0.5)
Moderator with Marker (11/0.5)
Moderator with Spitfire (16/0.5)
Moderator (9) x3
Zero Hacker (30/0.5)
Zero with Deployable Repeater/E-Mauler (24/0.5)
Sin-Eater with Mk12 (29)
Vertigo Zond with GML (34/1)
Lizard with HMG/Flamethrower (88/2)

Total cost 297/5.5


I've never used remotes before (as I've never had one before ) do they add to the order pool? If not its one group with 10 orders, if they do I'll detach the Sin-Eater (who's job will just be to sit in cover and use Neurokinetics to shoot his Mk12 in ARO anyway) and keep the rest together.

The Vertigo will just park somewhere out of sight, probably near the Lt and Sin-Eater whilst the Zeros target enemy HI/TAG/REM's with hacking and the Lizard and Moderators hunt down enemy infantry.

Does this sound reasonable or am I way off?

Chimera_Calvin wrote:I've never used remotes before (as I've never had one before ) do they add to the order pool?

Yes, except Servant or Synchronised. But, in any case, it's not 10 orders per group, it's 10 models per group.

As far as breaking off the Sin-Eater into his own group, even if his role is to just ARO, he does need to get where he needs to do the AROing (particularly if he has to keep up with allies). If he's only got a single order per turn, he will really struggle to do that, particularly if he needs to Cautious Move or Dodge along the way.
And if he can start in or easily get to a good position? Well, that probably means the table layout needs more thought, as he shouldn't be able to get into the position he wants to be in that easily.

He is the least order intensive model, so if there is someone you have to break off, he's the most logical choice... but still, 11 is about as bad a size as possible - it just doesn't split well.
(It's also a high likelihood if you want to get that 5-man Moderator Link Team - it does mean you've used up half a combat group in less than a fifth of your points.) Unfortunately, there's no easy answer.

I see what you mean about 11 orders, especially with the 5-man link team.

I wonder if putting the moderators in a group with the Lizard would work for a 6-order group and leaving the rest together for more flexibility (especially as with the Lt they have 5+1 orders so I can do equal amount with each group).

The Moderators can all move together on one order so I can do a lot with the Lizard.

Thoughts?

That could work, but don't forget that the Zeros are also going to be fairly order hungry. Using camo to its fullest potential does take a lot of orders - spending orders to re-camo or (with the current ruling that coming out of camo reveals you for the full order) having to split moving and un-camoing into two different orders to avoid getting shot to bits by ARO does mean that your supply of orders may well run short.

So you may end up with more orders for the Lizard than it needs and fewer than wanted for the Zeros - but then, the Sin-Eater mostly won't be using his order and the Reverend can probably spare her regular one* a lot of the time. I guess it's as good a split as possible with that list.

*A lot of hacking is often best saved for the reactive turn, particularly with this list. Firstly, there's no defensive hacking on the active turn, so the targets can only rely on their BTS. Secondly, Reset can't be performed until their next active turn, so it keeps the model immobile through your entire turn. And thirdly, you've got two hackers - why use up an order for a single attempt when you'll get two free attempts every time a valid target spends an order in range of either of them or a repeater?

I'd also add it's worth upgrading another of those moderators to have a marker. You've got the spare points/SWC, and your opponent will already know who your Lt is (the Lt's WIP is revealed at the Initiative roll off, and the Custodier is the only WIP 14 model there), so they're not any good as Lt decoys.
Might as well get the extra repeaters to hack through - it'll let her you keep her better out of reach and let you make maximum use of your hackers.

The lieutenants will power isn't revealed at the roll off, page 26 states that the lt's order is private information.

I think you'd be best with the 10/1 split of orders, rather than a 5/6. Once you start losing troops you'll really feel the short supply of orders. Also once you have lost someone you can spend a command token to bring the sin eater into the fold (only at the start of turn).

With a guided missile launcher you'll definitely want to do at least a little hacking in the active turn to tag some fools.

How do you not reveal your Lts willpower at the roll off? Are you not letting your opponent see the roll?

 plastictrees wrote:
How do you not reveal your Lts willpower at the roll off? Are you not letting your opponent see the roll?

Because you only say "I Passed" or "I Failed". Only if you tie and one of you got a Crit would the Lt. WIP be revealed.

I'm pretty bad at the game, but I'd go with the following:

Group 1:
Custodier Lt
Moderator x4
Lizard HGL
Zero (killer hacking device)
Zero (deployable repeater)
Clockmaker +zondbot
R. Moira, EM LGL

Group 2:
Sineater HMG
Daktari (lay her prone nearby to heal that sineater)

If you REALLY want to play a Lizard, you might try a list like this

Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 9 1 1
LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 87)
LIZARD PILOT Pistol, Knife. (0)
MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
MODERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 15)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6)
ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
ZOE & PI-WELL . (0 | 47)
ZOE (Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Stop!) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
PI-WELL Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 19)
ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

GROUP 2 4 1 1
DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)
REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

I wouldn't recommend paying this much points and losing at least two possible orders for a TAG. I usually play with my opponents' TAGs for example with the new Maghariba Guard a few weeks ago.

Also to field the Reverend Custodier as Lt. is really careless if you don't have any troopers with the COC skill around (in Bakunin this can only be a Spec-Ops), there are Killer Hackers around. With a TAG in your list you have to protect the other troops as well.