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Ha ha the Avatar being able to take fire hail and shoot twice with his melta gun/sword at bs10 effectively hitting on 2's with a reroll kinda invalidates taking fire dragons now. He alone outperforms their roll and so much more.

I'm really excited to hear about the state the Scorpions are now in - my favorite Aspect and Phoenix Lord, now with the whole "infiltrating issue' of past editions solved!

Plus, I can now field this guy to complete the theme (thanks redfinger!):

[/img]

(I'm glad the Wraithlord is still T8 too!)

I don't think I'll be gettng a Wraithknight Scorpion version made though...

I don't think...

Just peeked at the new codex and I have to confirm that banshees are not able to assault. They won't be good even this edition except I missed something.

Dark reapers otoh seem great. I'm not sure about Illic, wounding on 4+ (sniper) doesn't seem reliable.

Can't wait to have the 'dex in my hand!

Seems like Illic will only be good for letting you dump a big unit of Wraithguard with D-scythes right at the front of someone's deployment zone.

I'm very excited about the abundance of psykers in this army. .Farseers and warlocks have always been my favorite fare for the Eldar anyway.

I know that everyone is going on about guardians in wave serpents and all....

Isn't a more important consideration that Eldar finally have access to BS4 S8 shooting in the troop slot?

Who cares if they can kill things from a WS when you get BS4 EML or BL shots in troops with the power of the "stay the hell away from me" run/shoot shuricats?

Gwyidion wrote:
I know that everyone is going on about guardians in wave serpents and all....

Isn't a more important consideration that Eldar finally have access to BS4 S8 shooting in the troop slot?

Who cares if they can kill things from a WS when you get BS4 EML or BL shots in troops with the power of the "stay the hell away from me" run/shoot shuricats?

I think you are right, actually i think if Warlocks can cast powers on units they have not joined, i think the main use Guardians will see is as a BS4 missile launcher and wound bunker for the warlocks.

Just curious... what are the Harlies like now?

I've got 30 old school harlies and I want to put them to good use.

Alright updated my list of Raziel/Souba info again.
So far contents include:
General Army Info
Warlord Traits
Exarch Powers
Army Special Rules

Army List
HQ
Elite
Troop
Fast Attack

Next up I'm going to tackle the over filled Heavy Support and then Dedicated Transport(just the Wave Serpent sadly....)

After that I'll get weapon profiles and then psychic powers.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/463557/5671458.page#5671458

How long have Guardians (regular ones, not the Black Guardians Ulthwe had) been described as conscripted civilians in the fluff? I'm pretty sure it was in the 3rd ed codex, but I have no idea about if it came about earlier.

With the change to WS/BS 4 I'm wondering if they're dumping that bit of fluff in favor of Guardians being trained soldiers, just not aspect warriors.

 shamikebab wrote:
I can't believe Acrobatic is just counter attack, they'd just give them counter attack surely? Are there any other examples in 6th of GW giving a unit an existing rule but renaming it?

From the Chaos Daemon codex, there's the Blade of Blood which have Bloodlust, which is Rampage. Though this is maybe not the exact same thing as Bloodlust more precisely gives Rampage to the bearer of the blade, but it's close.

Sorry but all runes of battle, which i'm reading right now, are targeting the psyker (except destructor obviously).

Gwyidion wrote:
I know that everyone is going on about guardians in wave serpents and all....

Isn't a more important consideration that Eldar finally have access to BS4 S8 shooting in the troop slot?

Who cares if they can kill things from a WS when you get BS4 EML or BL shots in troops with the power of the "stay the hell away from me" run/shoot shuricats?

I agree, They're great backfield objective holders now that can add quite a punch from afar. Two scatters lasers or starcannons at BS4 makes them pretty mean and versatile. The added conceal-lock can also give your opponents a big headache trying to get them off the board.

Other than that PL's have gotten pretty damn brutal with the new exarch powers. Asurmen's 3 warlords traits, inv save and str5 ap2 at I. 7 weapon makes him alsmost as mean as Karandras, I. 7 str 8 powerfist with assassination. Oh and Fuegan's added str. and A. for each lost wound is will bring on a lot of hurt too, almost makes FnP a hindrance. ^^

Just read the spoilers for the Wave Sepent. So let me get this straight. To justify the massive cost of our weak transports they gave us a gimmick of a shield instead of the desperately needed assault upgrade. Guess you've gotta make sure the cash cow marines keep the "only ones with assault vehicles" status.

I cringe at the thought of how stupidly expensive our weapons and equipment are going to be. Going to be good to know Kelly can still fire up that random number generator for determining points cost.

I think that wave serpent are actually good. Serpent shield downgrades penetrating hits on a 2+. You have a nice weapon just in case you don't need the shield anymore with a huge range (60"). Might be useful if it is down to 1HP and unloaded its passengers. Certainly it now is the most durable transport of the game. Not even land raider are this reliable.

Eldarcannon wrote:
I think that wave serpent are actually good. Serpent shield downgrades penetrating hits on a 2+. You have a nice weapon just in case you don't need the shield anymore with a huge range (60"). Might be useful if it is down to 1HP and unloaded its passengers. Certainly it now is the most durable transport of the game. Not even land raider are this reliable.

They have the same problem they had with the old version. Downgrading a hit doesn't help since HP still kill you.

stupid double post


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Just read the spoilers for the Wave Sepent. So let me get this straight. To justify the massive cost of our weak transports they gave us a gimmick of a shield instead of the desperately needed assault upgrade. Guess you've gotta make sure the cash cow marines keep the "only ones with assault vehicles" status.

I cringe at the thought of how stupidly expensive our weapons and equipment are going to be. Going to be good to know Kelly can still fire up that random number generator for determining points cost.

I'm thinking that they want to leave assaulting from transports a feature of Dark Eldar in order to make sure there are enough differences.

double post ugh.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Just read the spoilers for the Wave Sepent. So let me get this straight. To justify the massive cost of our weak transports they gave us a gimmick of a shield instead of the desperately needed assault upgrade. Guess you've gotta make sure the cash cow marines keep the "only ones with assault vehicles" status.

How exactly are marines the only one with assault vehicles??

 shamikebab wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Just read the spoilers for the Wave Sepent. So let me get this straight. To justify the massive cost of our weak transports they gave us a gimmick of a shield instead of the desperately needed assault upgrade. Guess you've gotta make sure the cash cow marines keep the "only ones with assault vehicles" status.

How exactly are marines the only one with assault vehicles??

Besides forge world they are. Other armies have open topped. Which is worlds different.

And I fully agree with the guy who said that the pens to glance is not good enough. It does not give it anywhere near a landraiders survive ability. To be fair though it shouldn't because that LR costs way more.

So how exactly do we use Banshees?

They still have the exact same problem.


Also, while I'm late to the party, I saw people talking about BS4 Guardians. I always picture how it is pictured within Dark Heresy (I think?).

Instead of BS3 or 4, it is BS33 or 37. Work's in 10's to be more accurate.

So perhaps a Conscript has BS21 rounding to 2.
A Guardsman has BS28, so goes to 3.
Veterans have 36 rounding to 4.
Untrained Eldar are 35, worse than a veteran Guard, but due to only having a 1-10 scale they are 4.
Then Trained Eldar are 44. Nearly 5, but not quite good enough.
Then any specialist Eldar are 54.


Edit:

Also it looks like we are still doomed to die to Heldrakes. Granted we can kill them 2nd turn now but RIP Dark Reapers / Wraiths ANYTHING.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Just read the spoilers for the Wave Sepent. So let me get this straight. To justify the massive cost of our weak transports they gave us a gimmick of a shield instead of the desperately needed assault upgrade. Guess you've gotta make sure the cash cow marines keep the "only ones with assault vehicles" status.

How exactly are marines the only one with assault vehicles??

Besides forge world they are. Other armies have open topped. Which is worlds different.

Well it lets you assault out of them, that's pretty much the selling feature of an assault vehicle. Sure there are negatives to open topped but the positive far out weighs it.

 Popenfresh wrote:

Gwyidion wrote:
I know that everyone is going on about guardians in wave serpents and all....

Isn't a more important consideration that Eldar finally have access to BS4 S8 shooting in the troop slot?

Who cares if they can kill things from a WS when you get BS4 EML or BL shots in troops with the power of the "stay the hell away from me" run/shoot shuricats?

I agree, They're great backfield objective holders now that can add quite a punch from afar. Two scatters lasers or starcannons at BS4 makes them pretty mean and versatile. The added conceal-lock can also give your opponents a big headache trying to get them off the board.

Other than that PL's have gotten pretty damn brutal with the new exarch powers. Asurmen's 3 warlords traits, inv save and str5 ap2 at I. 7 weapon makes him alsmost as mean as Karandras, I. 7 str 8 powerfist with assassination. Oh and Fuegan's added str. and A. for each lost wound is will bring on a lot of hurt too, almost makes FnP a hindrance. ^^

Exactly, I imagine getting something like 3 bare bones units of them if i can put a heavy gun and a Warlock on them for under 150 or 160 points (guns would really need to make a difference, either some reliable anti tank or something like a 3 shot long range plasma equivalent). The lock would buff my other units. If the lock can only cast spells on them, then they are useless.

Jacob29 wrote:
So how exactly do we use Banshees?

They still have the exact same problem.

We aren't. I think that was largely the point. I dont know any Eldar player that doesnt have quite a few of these so i think GWs idea was "You own enough now stop using them and buy this".

 pretre wrote:

Eldarcannon wrote:
I think that wave serpent are actually good. Serpent shield downgrades penetrating hits on a 2+. You have a nice weapon just in case you don't need the shield anymore with a huge range (60"). Might be useful if it is down to 1HP and unloaded its passengers. Certainly it now is the most durable transport of the game. Not even land raider are this reliable.

They have the same problem they had with the old version. Downgrading a hit doesn't help since HP still kill you.

It's different, and I think it's worse than before. Before with Melta hits you had .167 chance to glance and .333 chance to pen. Now you have .778 chance to glance and .139 chance to pen. Combined each time a Melta hits (or anything else with +D6 on armor pen), you went from .5 chance to lose an HP to .917 chance to lose an HP. Less pens doesn't really matter when you're still dead anyway.

Vs Str 9 you go from .167 glance / .333 pen to .583 glance / .083 pen.
Vs Str 10 you go from .167 glance / .333 pen to .722 glance / .111 pen.

Verdict: Number of pens goes down, number of glances dramatically increases. I prefer the old version, as I'm remembering tons of times in 6th where that extra one or two HP gone means my units don't make it to the destination.

Puscifer wrote:
Just curious... what are the Harlies like now?

I've got 30 old school harlies and I want to put them to good use.

They are rather interesting now. The shadow seer became a psycher lvl 1 and veil of tears is: roll a 2d6x2 and if they harlies are not seen, then you cant fire at another unit. So we have a 24" gap now!

Point cost are the same, nothing about the master, while the death jest is the same.

I also see that Dark Reapers still have an Exarch option to take a normal missile launcher (and with anti-air) while the grunts can't.

Which kinda defeats the point, why take an anti-tank/flyer weapon on an anti-infantry squad?

Just because a Guardian is a civilian now doesn't mean they didn't go through the path of the warrior at some point in their life. The exarchs are the warriors which are "lost" and remain in the same path forever. You can successfully be a dark reaper and then go study Pottery at the Temple of Pottery, it's all the same thing to the Eldar just a new path.

So to say Guardians are conscripts like an imperial conscript is a bit false.

Quark wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Eldarcannon wrote:
I think that wave serpent are actually good. Serpent shield downgrades penetrating hits on a 2+. You have a nice weapon just in case you don't need the shield anymore with a huge range (60"). Might be useful if it is down to 1HP and unloaded its passengers. Certainly it now is the most durable transport of the game. Not even land raider are this reliable.

They have the same problem they had with the old version. Downgrading a hit doesn't help since HP still kill you.

It's different, and I think it's worse than before. Before with Melta hits you had .167 chance to glance and .333 chance to pen. Now you have .778 chance to glance and .139 chance to pen. Combined each time a Melta hits (or anything else with +D6 on armor pen), you went from .5 chance to lose an HP to .917 chance to lose an HP. Less pens doesn't really matter when you're still dead anyway.

Vs Str 9 you go from .167 glance / .333 pen to .583 glance / .083 pen.
Vs Str 10 you go from .167 glance / .333 pen to .722 glance / .111 pen.

Verdict: Number of pens goes down, number of glances dramatically increases. I prefer the old version, as I'm remembering tons of times in 6th where that extra one or two HP gone means my units don't make it to the destination.

did you also take into account the fact that WS get a 4+ or 3+ cover save now? Yes you have to pay for it , but if you don't pay for it your either strapped for points or a complete

O and don't forget that you would rather have your WS wrecked and become LOS blocking terrain, instead of blowing up and cooking what is inside.

GTKA666 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Just curious... what are the Harlies like now?

I've got 30 old school harlies and I want to put them to good use.

They are rather interesting now. The shadow seer became a psycher lvl 1 and veil of tears is: roll a 2d6x2 and if they harlies are not seen, then you cant fire at another unit. So we have a 24" gap now!

Point cost are the same, nothing about the master, while the death jest is the same.

They Still have the Troupe Master, he was labeled as Master Mime though, which i understand was confusing given the Master Mime is another Harlequin Unit all together.

Also Harlequin Whips are supposed to be Kisses, damn germans.... XP